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Should i set the cpu cooler's fun to the maximum in the bios ?

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  • Cooling
  • CPUs
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July 26, 2014 8:17:05 AM

I get 50° with hyper t4 and fx 8320, Should i Set the fan to "Ultra" in the bios ?

More about : set cpu cooler fun maximum bios

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July 26, 2014 8:28:50 AM

I do but i like to keep my cpu as cool as possible and i dont care about the noise so its up to you if your cpu never goes above 50c you are good the max safe temp for that cpu is 62c.
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July 26, 2014 9:18:46 AM

Depends on the fan. I have every single one of the 8 fans in my system running at full speed all of the time, but they are the Corsair 'Quiet' editions. While not silent, it's a level I can live with.

I personally hate the 'ramp-up' sound fans make when doing anything demanding, so I just keep things running at fixed all of the time. If you have a fan with an audible level at full speed that you're comfortable with then feel free, if not, the PWM control will do things for you, at the expense of 'said ramp-up noise.

Your idle temps will improve, obviously, faster the speed lower the temps, but depending on how it's configured, load temps may stay exactly the same.


Oh and, 50c is fine under full load for that chip. 62c is the safe limit.
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July 26, 2014 10:31:02 AM

Distello said:
Depends on the fan. I have every single one of the 8 fans in my system running at full speed all of the time, but they are the Corsair 'Quiet' editions. While not silent, it's a level I can live with.

I personally hate the 'ramp-up' sound fans make when doing anything demanding, so I just keep things running at fixed all of the time. If you have a fan with an audible level at full speed that you're comfortable with then feel free, if not, the PWM control will do things for you, at the expense of 'said ramp-up noise.

Your idle temps will improve, obviously, faster the speed lower the temps, but depending on how it's configured, load temps may stay exactly the same.


Oh and, 50c is fine under full load for that chip. 62c is the safe limit.


50 in idle :(  It's strange because last week was 40. However i read some comments in amazon (italia) that say it's silent with max speed (hhyper t4 stock)
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July 26, 2014 10:31:50 AM

Dunlop0078 said:
I do but i like to keep my cpu as cool as possible and i dont care about the noise so its up to you if your cpu never goes above 50c you are good the max safe temp for that cpu is 62c.


What components do you have ? And what are your temps ? :) 
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July 26, 2014 10:44:09 AM

pugno50 said:
Dunlop0078 said:
I do but i like to keep my cpu as cool as possible and i dont care about the noise so its up to you if your cpu never goes above 50c you are good the max safe temp for that cpu is 62c.


What components do you have ? And what are your temps ? :) 


50c at idle is WAY too high you must not have the cooler installed properly or you used to much or too little thermal paste. i have a noctua cooler with a fx 6350 with a far overclock to 4.8ghz and i idle at about 35c and about 55c under load.
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July 26, 2014 10:53:01 AM

Dunlop0078 said:
pugno50 said:
Dunlop0078 said:
I do but i like to keep my cpu as cool as possible and i dont care about the noise so its up to you if your cpu never goes above 50c you are good the max safe temp for that cpu is 62c.


What components do you have ? And what are your temps ? :) 


50c at idle is WAY too high you must not have the cooler installed properly or you used to much or too little thermal paste. i have a noctua cooler with a fx 6350 with a far overclock to 4.8ghz and i idle at about 35c and about 55c under load.


The cooler is installed propertly and the thermal compund too!! The only thing is a piece of paste is outside the heatsink! I don't think it's a problem...
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July 26, 2014 11:32:29 AM

pugno50 said:
I get 50° with hyper t4 and fx 8320, Should i Set the fan to "Ultra" in the bios ?


pugno50 said:
Dunlop0078 said:
pugno50 said:
Dunlop0078 said:
I do but i like to keep my cpu as cool as possible and i dont care about the noise so its up to you if your cpu never goes above 50c you are good the max safe temp for that cpu is 62c.


What components do you have ? And what are your temps ? :) 


50c at idle is WAY too high you must not have the cooler installed properly or you used to much or too little thermal paste. i have a noctua cooler with a fx 6350 with a far overclock to 4.8ghz and i idle at about 35c and about 55c under load.


The cooler is installed propertly and the thermal compund too!! The only thing is a piece of paste is outside the heatsink! I don't think it's a problem...


Pugno. You buy a nice cpu and strap a US $14 cooler on it? And you wonder why your temps are bad? You were better off with the stock cooler. The AMD 6 and 8 core cpu's are like mini blast furnaces. Literally.
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July 26, 2014 11:35:59 AM

bmacsys said:
pugno50 said:
I get 50° with hyper t4 and fx 8320, Should i Set the fan to "Ultra" in the bios ?


pugno50 said:
Dunlop0078 said:
pugno50 said:
Dunlop0078 said:
I do but i like to keep my cpu as cool as possible and i dont care about the noise so its up to you if your cpu never goes above 50c you are good the max safe temp for that cpu is 62c.


What components do you have ? And what are your temps ? :) 


50c at idle is WAY too high you must not have the cooler installed properly or you used to much or too little thermal paste. i have a noctua cooler with a fx 6350 with a far overclock to 4.8ghz and i idle at about 35c and about 55c under load.


The cooler is installed propertly and the thermal compund too!! The only thing is a piece of paste is outside the heatsink! I don't think it's a problem...


Pugno. You buy a nice cpu and strap a US $14 cooler on it? And you wonder why your temps are bad? You were better off with the stock cooler. The AMD 6 and 8 core cpu's are like mini blast furnaces. Literally.


Thanks for the "Help". Hyper 212 evo is just £4 up to hyper t4 ... what's wrong ? It's a decent cpu cooler...
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July 26, 2014 11:38:16 AM

pugno50 said:
Dunlop0078 said:
pugno50 said:
Dunlop0078 said:
I do but i like to keep my cpu as cool as possible and i dont care about the noise so its up to you if your cpu never goes above 50c you are good the max safe temp for that cpu is 62c.


What components do you have ? And what are your temps ? :) 


50c at idle is WAY too high you must not have the cooler installed properly or you used to much or too little thermal paste. i have a noctua cooler with a fx 6350 with a far overclock to 4.8ghz and i idle at about 35c and about 55c under load.


The cooler is installed propertly and the thermal compund too!! The only thing is a piece of paste is outside the heatsink! I don't think it's a problem...


Did you apply manually, or use the stuff that came on the heatsink?
50c is high for idle. Hit it with Prime95 and see what the load temps are, if it goes over 62c quit it immediately.
http://www.mersenne.org/download/

Small FFT tests btw.

If it does, you have a problem. I mean, It's probably super hot in Italy at the moment, so that may or may not explain things, generally the rule is that if it's hot here (UK) the rest of the world is literally melting off the face of the earth.

You will need to remount the heatsink, making sure to clean off any original thermal paste and replacing it with a tiny dab of new stuff. Don't add too much, a small grain of rice is sufficient.
Too much paste can actually act as an insulator.

The T4 isn't the best of coolers, but it should be more than capable of cooling that chip under stock conditions, with headroom to spare.
If all of the above doesn't work, and you're absolutely certain you installed the cooler properly, you can just go the old fashioned route of throwing more fans at something. That means more case fans, another fan on the T4 for a push pull setup (I THINK that's possible on that cooler, don't quote me on it), and improve room ventilation.

I wish you luck sir.
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July 26, 2014 11:47:03 AM

Distello said:
pugno50 said:
Dunlop0078 said:
pugno50 said:
Dunlop0078 said:
I do but i like to keep my cpu as cool as possible and i dont care about the noise so its up to you if your cpu never goes above 50c you are good the max safe temp for that cpu is 62c.


What components do you have ? And what are your temps ? :) 


50c at idle is WAY too high you must not have the cooler installed properly or you used to much or too little thermal paste. i have a noctua cooler with a fx 6350 with a far overclock to 4.8ghz and i idle at about 35c and about 55c under load.


The cooler is installed propertly and the thermal compund too!! The only thing is a piece of paste is outside the heatsink! I don't think it's a problem...


Did you apply manually, or use the stuff that came on the heatsink?
50c is high for idle. Hit it with Prime95 and see what the load temps are, if it goes over 62c quit it immediately.
http://www.mersenne.org/download/

Small FFT tests btw.

If it does, you have a problem. I mean, It's probably super hot in Italy at the moment, so that may or may not explain things, generally the rule is that if it's hot here (UK) the rest of the world is literally melting off the face of the earth.

You will need to remount the heatsink, making sure to clean off any original thermal paste and replacing it with a tiny dab of new stuff. Don't add too much, a small grain of rice is sufficient.
Too much paste can actually act as an insulator.

The T4 isn't the best of coolers, but it should be more than capable of cooling that chip under stock conditions, with headroom to spare.
If all of the above doesn't work, and you're absolutely certain you installed the cooler properly, you can just go the old fashioned route of throwing more fans at something. That means more case fans, another fan on the T4 for a push pull setup (I THINK that's possible on that cooler, don't quote me on it), and improve room ventilation.

I wish you luck sir.


The pc isn't mine. It's my friend that has it.
In hwmonitor value,min,max is always 55c, but last week there was 40... But i'm sure that the problem isn't the paste (We installed it like a rice.. i saw videos on how to do that) , and the cpu cooler is mounted fine becouse the installation per amd doesn't require blackplate or anything... it's super easy... for me is something wrong in the bios or the UPDATE of it. I explaint : after i installed him the pc, the time went off so i couldn't install windows... the cpu temp was 40 (in the bios) and then he gave the pc to a friend of his mother ... he installed bios, windows and alll... But the temp was 55 the next time i went to him house... So i think there's something wrong here... PLEASE HELP ME (HIM :D )
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July 26, 2014 11:51:18 AM

pugno50 said:
bmacsys said:
pugno50 said:
I get 50° with hyper t4 and fx 8320, Should i Set the fan to "Ultra" in the bios ?


pugno50 said:
Dunlop0078 said:
pugno50 said:
Dunlop0078 said:
I do but i like to keep my cpu as cool as possible and i dont care about the noise so its up to you if your cpu never goes above 50c you are good the max safe temp for that cpu is 62c.


What components do you have ? And what are your temps ? :) 


50c at idle is WAY too high you must not have the cooler installed properly or you used to much or too little thermal paste. i have a noctua cooler with a fx 6350 with a far overclock to 4.8ghz and i idle at about 35c and about 55c under load.


The cooler is installed propertly and the thermal compund too!! The only thing is a piece of paste is outside the heatsink! I don't think it's a problem...


Pugno. You buy a nice cpu and strap a US $14 cooler on it? And you wonder why your temps are bad? You were better off with the stock cooler. The AMD 6 and 8 core cpu's are like mini blast furnaces. Literally.


Thanks for the "Help". Hyper 212 evo is just £4 up to hyper t4 ... what's wrong ? It's a decent cpu cooler...


Budget coolers, especially the cheaper ones don't go well with six and eight core AMD cpu's. The 6300 is a 95 watt cpu at 3.5 GHz. Over clock it and it can be a 125 watt+ cpu at the minimum. An 8350 is a 125 watt cpu at stock. With a good overclock it can be a 220 watt cpu same as the 9370 and 9590.
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July 26, 2014 11:57:34 AM

What can i do right now ? I think i have to see way better the tempa.. i saw it 20 secs ... for 6-7 times
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July 26, 2014 12:07:29 PM

The BIOS reads the socket temp, not the core. A sensor placed under the CPU socket that's usually about 10c higher than the core.

Use CoreTemp or HWMonitor (Under the FX-8320 value) to read the die temp. Keep in mind that AMD uses a silly calculaton for core temperature that only becomes accurate under full load. Hence why you will need to run Prime or a similar stress testing software whilst monitoring that temp value.

Idle temps can never be lower than ambient air, it's just physics, that's why I mentioned the heat in Italy. Obviously it's unlikely to be anywhere near 55c, but internal case temps can be quite a few degrees higher depending on airflow.
Also, AMD boards have a backplate pre-installed. Just thought I'd mention that.

Believe me when I say the dude above doesn't seem to know much about cooling solutions (Going by past posts). The stock heatsink is tiny and designed to keep things under the throttling limit at stock. It stands to reason then that even a cheap aftermarket one will do a much better job. I used to run my 8350 with an Arctic Freezer 7 Pro R2.0 which is a similar sized heatsink and it was fine.

The only way you will even get that processor to consume as much as a 9370/9590 is if you match the voltage, which I believe is just over 1.5v. Most if not all 8320s and 8350s will near boil under that kind of voltage. Remember, it's the volts that increase heat and power draw, not frequency, although they obviously directly correlate. The 9000 series are high binned. The 8320 is low binned, and the 8350 is 'Normal' binned. They each have different clockspeeds to reflect their ability.

Anyway, like I said, the solution is to remount, or improve case airflow and/or room airflow.
I can't really help you much after that. Those are the only/best solutions available to you unless you have the dosh for a bigger and better heatsink.
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July 26, 2014 12:18:09 PM

Distello said:
The BIOS reads the socket temp, not the core. A sensor placed under the CPU socket that's usually about 10c higher than the core.

Use CoreTemp or HWMonitor (Under the FX-8320 value) to read the die temp. Keep in mind that AMD uses a silly calculaton for core temperature that only becomes accurate under full load. Hence why you will need to run Prime or a similar stress testing software whilst monitoring that temp value.

Idle temps can never be lower than ambient air, it's just physics, that's why I mentioned the heat in Italy. Obviously it's unlikely to be anywhere near 55c, but internal case temps can be quite a few degrees higher depending on airflow.
Also, AMD boards have a backplate pre-installed. Just thought I'd mention that.

Believe me when I say the dude above doesn't seem to know much about cooling solutions (Going by past posts). The stock heatsink is tiny and designed to keep things under the throttling limit at stock. It stands to reason then that even a cheap aftermarket one will do a much better job. I used to run my 8350 with an Arctic Freezer 7 Pro R2.0 which is a similar sized heatsink and it was fine.

The only way you will even get that processor to consume as much as a 9370/9590 is if you match the voltage, which I believe is just over 1.5v. Most if not all 8320s and 8350s will near boil under that kind of voltage. Remember, it's the volts that increase heat and power draw, not frequency, although they obviously directly correlate. The 9000 series are high binned. The 8320 is low binned, and the 8350 is 'Normal' binned. They each have different clockspeeds to reflect their ability.

Anyway, like I said, the solution is to remount, or improve case airflow and/or room airflow.
I can't really help you much after that. Those are the only/best solutions available to you unless you have the dosh for a bigger and better heatsink.


I would say he has a problem. And it is obviously the cooler. The guy with the H60 had a cooling problem. A H60 is a toy whether you agree or not. That is why its cheap. You get what you pay for. Any body with any sense matches AMD six and eight core cpu's with high quality coolers like Noctua NH-D14 or Phanteks PH-TC14PE_OR 140mm UFB . $14 coolers are crap whether you agree or not. No better than the stock cooler.The 9370 and 9590 are high leakage 8350's. Nothing more nothing less.
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July 26, 2014 12:20:47 PM

Distello said:
The BIOS reads the socket temp, not the core. A sensor placed under the CPU socket that's usually about 10c higher than the core.

Use CoreTemp or HWMonitor (Under the FX-8320 value) to read the die temp. Keep in mind that AMD uses a silly calculaton for core temperature that only becomes accurate under full load. Hence why you will need to run Prime or a similar stress testing software whilst monitoring that temp value.

Idle temps can never be lower than ambient air, it's just physics, that's why I mentioned the heat in Italy. Obviously it's unlikely to be anywhere near 55c, but internal case temps can be quite a few degrees higher depending on airflow.
Also, AMD boards have a backplate pre-installed. Just thought I'd mention that.

Believe me when I say the dude above doesn't seem to know much about cooling solutions (Going by past posts). The stock heatsink is tiny and designed to keep things under the throttling limit at stock. It stands to reason then that even a cheap aftermarket one will do a much better job. I used to run my 8350 with an Arctic Freezer 7 Pro R2.0 which is a similar sized heatsink and it was fine.

The only way you will even get that processor to consume as much as a 9370/9590 is if you match the voltage, which I believe is just over 1.5v. Most if not all 8320s and 8350s will near boil under that kind of voltage. Remember, it's the volts that increase heat and power draw, not frequency, although they obviously directly correlate. The 9000 series are high binned. The 8320 is low binned, and the 8350 is 'Normal' binned. They each have different clockspeeds to reflect their ability.

Anyway, like I said, the solution is to remount, or improve case airflow and/or room airflow.
I can't really help you much after that. Those are the only/best solutions available to you unless you have the dosh for a bigger and better heatsink.


Thanks for the very usefull answer! I'm learing much... and i just learned what bios reads :-) ... I think i'll try prime95 and see what happens...
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July 26, 2014 12:27:46 PM

bmacsys said:
Distello said:
The BIOS reads the socket temp, not the core. A sensor placed under the CPU socket that's usually about 10c higher than the core.

Use CoreTemp or HWMonitor (Under the FX-8320 value) to read the die temp. Keep in mind that AMD uses a silly calculaton for core temperature that only becomes accurate under full load. Hence why you will need to run Prime or a similar stress testing software whilst monitoring that temp value.

Idle temps can never be lower than ambient air, it's just physics, that's why I mentioned the heat in Italy. Obviously it's unlikely to be anywhere near 55c, but internal case temps can be quite a few degrees higher depending on airflow.
Also, AMD boards have a backplate pre-installed. Just thought I'd mention that.

Believe me when I say the dude above doesn't seem to know much about cooling solutions (Going by past posts). The stock heatsink is tiny and designed to keep things under the throttling limit at stock. It stands to reason then that even a cheap aftermarket one will do a much better job. I used to run my 8350 with an Arctic Freezer 7 Pro R2.0 which is a similar sized heatsink and it was fine.

The only way you will even get that processor to consume as much as a 9370/9590 is if you match the voltage, which I believe is just over 1.5v. Most if not all 8320s and 8350s will near boil under that kind of voltage. Remember, it's the volts that increase heat and power draw, not frequency, although they obviously directly correlate. The 9000 series are high binned. The 8320 is low binned, and the 8350 is 'Normal' binned. They each have different clockspeeds to reflect their ability.

Anyway, like I said, the solution is to remount, or improve case airflow and/or room airflow.
I can't really help you much after that. Those are the only/best solutions available to you unless you have the dosh for a bigger and better heatsink.


I would say he has a problem. And it is obviously the cooler. The guy with the H60 had a cooling problem. A H60 is a toy whether you agree or not. That is why its cheap. You get what you pay for. Any body with any sense matches AMD six and eight core cpu's with high quality coolers like Noctua NH-D14 or Phanteks PH-TC14PE_OR 140mm UFB . $14 coolers are crap whether you agree or not. No better than the stock cooler.The 9370 and 9590 are high leakage 8350's. Nothing more nothing less.


The H60 2013 version costs about 55£. Not exactly 'cheap'. It also gains similar results to the much loved Hyper 212 EVO.
The 9000 series CPUs run surprisingly cool for their voltage, all down to the binning process. This is why AMD have now released a version of the 9590 with, what is essentially, a H80 in the box with different fans.
Whether I agree with any of this or not is irrelevant. Fact trumps opinion, first hand experience even more so.
You will find plenty of tests/studies around the web from reputable sources that will back-up this truth.
Unless you've actually used the H60 as I have, I can't really take your opinion seriously.

Would I overclock on either of them? Probably not. Are they exceptionally good coolers for stock levels? Certainly.
Also, we're derailing this thread. I implore you to research your side of the argument, upon which, keep it with you. This thread doesn't need any further off-topic discussion. The OP (or his friend) has the T4 cooler, whether you like that or not, it's an unnecessary cost for another cooler when he/she is only running at stock parameters.
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July 26, 2014 12:45:39 PM

Not all aftermarket coolers are better than stock, in fact many are considered stock replacements, such as the T4, and more than a few are actually worse than the 8320 stock cooler.

Consider the 8320 is a 125w CPU. The stock coolers for the 8320/8350 are designed to cool upto about 130w. If you take a stock replacement aftermarket fan, and stick it on a 95w CPU, it'll work very well, never reaching its max without some overclock. Take that same cooler and put it on a 64w CPU and it'll work great, being double the CPUs TDP. This is why for Intel CPUs the Hyper212 works so well, it has a cooling capability of 180w, double that of even the better CPUs.

So T4 on an i3 or 4 core AMD will work great, but on the 125w 8320/8350, its nothing better than a replacement. As for the 'toy' h60, that's a joke at best. I run my h55 under prime95 small fft, i5 3570k @ almost 4.4GHz, 16Gb of 1600 OC @ 2166and still manage 74C. It's not the size or capability of the cooler that matters alone, its what its mounted on that matters just as much.

For an AMD 8320, look to the Hyper212 as a minimum cooler to get good temps, for liquid, the h80i, you have to exceed the cpu TDP by a good margin to get good temps, and the T4 just isn't enough for that.
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July 26, 2014 12:56:33 PM

Karadjgne said:
Not all aftermarket coolers are better than stock, in fact many are considered stock replacements, such as the T4, and more than a few are actually worse than the 8320 stock cooler.

Consider the 8320 is a 125w CPU. The stock coolers for the 8320/8350 are designed to cool upto about 130w. If you take a stock replacement aftermarket fan, and stick it on a 95w CPU, it'll work very well, never reaching its max without some overclock. Take that same cooler and put it on a 64w CPU and it'll work great, being double the CPUs TDP. This is why for Intel CPUs the Hyper212 works so well, it has a cooling capability of 180w, double that of even the better CPUs.

So T4 on an i3 or 4 core AMD will work great, but on the 125w 8320/8350, its nothing better than a replacement. As for the 'toy' h60, that's a joke at best. I run my h55 under prime95 small fft, i5 3570k @ almost 4.4GHz, 16Gb of 1600 OC @ 2166and still manage 74C. It's not the size or capability of the cooler that matters alone, its what its mounted on that matters just as much.

For an AMD 8320, look to the Hyper212 as a minimum cooler to get good temps, for liquid, the h80i, you have to exceed the cpu TDP by a good margin to get good temps, and the T4 just isn't enough for that.


But why this person has 25-30 in idle with t4 ?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

However with my build i'll get noctua nh-d14...

Another question: A little of thermal paste went outside of the cooler ... can that be the problem ?
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July 26, 2014 1:23:21 PM

Paste is trixy at best, and considering you said you applied just a grain of rice and followed the directions, you have paste on the outside of the die. This tells me that although you applied @ the correct amount of paste, it either was not centered correctly or more likely when you attached the cpu cooler, you did it wrong. You need to carefully drop the cooler on the die then tighten it down in an X pattern, or figure-8 using opposing screws. If you tighten the cooler down in a circular pattern, soon as 1 side is accomplished, you end up squashing the paste towards the un-tightened side. This leaves a gap in the paste on one side of the die, resulting in your higher temps at idle. what you are seeing, to the best of my imagination, is that the 'cores' on the empty side of the die, are the ones that don't really get used much so basically sit at idle speeds during usage, while the 1-2 'cores' that get heavy usage, are on the side with plenty of paste, which reflect the load temps.

DL CoreTemp or RealTemp, and look at the individual core temps, not at average cpu temp, and you'll probably notice 1-4 cores are actually hotter than the other, and this gets reversed under load.

advice: clean your cpu of all old paste correctly, then reinstall the cooler, again correctly, making sure its snug, screws no more than good hand tight. then recheck the temps. You should be seeing @35-40 idle and @50-55 under normal loads, only exceeding that if punished with prime95 small fft, or intel burnin test etc, which run the cpu at 115-125% usage on all cores
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July 27, 2014 11:58:43 AM

Karadjgne said:
Paste is trixy at best, and considering you said you applied just a grain of rice and followed the directions, you have paste on the outside of the die. This tells me that although you applied @ the correct amount of paste, it either was not centered correctly or more likely when you attached the cpu cooler, you did it wrong. You need to carefully drop the cooler on the die then tighten it down in an X pattern, or figure-8 using opposing screws. If you tighten the cooler down in a circular pattern, soon as 1 side is accomplished, you end up squashing the paste towards the un-tightened side. This leaves a gap in the paste on one side of the die, resulting in your higher temps at idle. what you are seeing, to the best of my imagination, is that the 'cores' on the empty side of the die, are the ones that don't really get used much so basically sit at idle speeds during usage, while the 1-2 'cores' that get heavy usage, are on the side with plenty of paste, which reflect the load temps.

DL CoreTemp or RealTemp, and look at the individual core temps, not at average cpu temp, and you'll probably notice 1-4 cores are actually hotter than the other, and this gets reversed under load.

advice: clean your cpu of all old paste correctly, then reinstall the cooler, again correctly, making sure its snug, screws no more than good hand tight. then recheck the temps. You should be seeing @35-40 idle and @50-55 under normal loads, only exceeding that if punished with prime95 small fft, or intel burnin test etc, which run the cpu at 115-125% usage on all cores


Guys all resolved... the temp is 30 in idle and 50 full load ... ahaha i don't knoww what i sawe..
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