ATX or micro ATX?

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Maxarini

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I am building my first PC and want to know whether to go ATX or Micro ATX.

I am going to use this for mainly gaming and since I am going to keep this for a long time I want to be able to upgrade it a lot in the future.

The only thing holding me back from building an ATX PC is because I want to have this with me when I travel (to a different country or state, not my friends house or across the street).

I don't know if this helps but since this is my first PC I want it to only be air cooled instead of liquid cooled. Also If you know a good and stylish ATX or Micro ATX case please tell me or leave a link to it or something.

So should I go ATX or Micro ATX? what are the advantages and disadvantages for each?
Please leave a detailed answer.
Thank you in advance.

 
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I would definitely suggest ATX because they can offer more upgrade options for the future, such as more PCIE ports. However if you already know that you want to go with only 1-2 GPUs, especially one GPU, then I would suggest you stick to micro ATX because you can go with a smaller form factor, smaller case for traveling, and they are typically a bit less costly for basic ones. I had big plans on upgrading my setup, well probably still have big plans for doing it one day, so I went with an E-ATX motherboard that offered up to 8 RAM modules to be used and up to 4 GPUs that could be used in Crossfire or SLI.

If you already know you want to have the ability to run two GPUs, then an ATX motherboard would probably be better because you will...
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I would definitely suggest ATX because they can offer more upgrade options for the future, such as more PCIE ports. However if you already know that you want to go with only 1-2 GPUs, especially one GPU, then I would suggest you stick to micro ATX because you can go with a smaller form factor, smaller case for traveling, and they are typically a bit less costly for basic ones. I had big plans on upgrading my setup, well probably still have big plans for doing it one day, so I went with an E-ATX motherboard that offered up to 8 RAM modules to be used and up to 4 GPUs that could be used in Crossfire or SLI.

If you already know you want to have the ability to run two GPUs, then an ATX motherboard would probably be better because you will be able to find one that might give a bit better distance between the GPUs themselves to help them stay a bit cooler, vs a smaller motherboard that does not offer as much room. Also, there are plenty of micro ATX motherboards that offer the ability to use 4 RAM modules, but there are a bit more options for that on a ATX board. You really have to just look at what you want to do in the future and what boards meet those needs, then look at that list and see which ones are micro and which are standard sized boards. Compare the prices, and any additional features and see where you end up.
 
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I am only putting one GPU in (GTX780 ti) and I may want to add another GPU in the future but no more than 2(if I add a second one it will be in a long time)
Based on what you said I picked out some parts here: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/TpvBGX
I have a few questions about these parts though.
1. What I want to know is will my GTX 780 ti fit in this case? on Amazon there were 2 GPU's in it in the picture.
2. Will a second GTX 780 ti fit with the first one?
3. Since this is my first PC I want it to only be air cooled instead of liquid cooled. do you know a good cpu cooler that would fit well in this case and not block the window view to much? My budget is $1,500 to $1,600

 
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Yes your GPU should fit in your case, as they claim it will fit full sized GPUs. The 2nd GPU fitting with the first one will be based more on the motherboard. And according to the motherboard manufacturer it will fit...however you have to think about the decreased spacing between GPUs that will cause them to run hotter. And how well the two GPUs would fit also depends on the actual thickness of the GPUs. So while it should work, the fans of the one GPU will be blowing the hot air directly into the other one...and there will be small space between them...so one card will run quite a bit hotter than it should because of that restricted air flow and the other will run hotter because of the extra hot air it is getting from the other one.

Since you don't plan on overclocking, I would definitely suggest you go with something like the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO because it works better than the stock CPU coolers you would get and does not take up a ton of room. And regarding your budget and build, I noticed that the selection of parts you linked to did not include RAM, PSU, HDD/SDD, or an optical drive. Not sure if you already have that stuff or not though, but thought to just double check with you.

Honestly, I have a GTX 780 Ti variant right now and had been considering to go with another one for SLI in a couple of years...but am leaning towards going with a super powerful GPU for 4K gaming then while using the 780 Ti for running 1-2 non gaming displays. Considering your budget, travel requirements, and overall system performance expectations I would honestly suggest probably going with a much cheaper motherboard that runs only a single GPU and making a beast for the money. You don't really need much of a motherboard right now, and you could get a sub $100 one that meets most of your requirements that would probably work better for your build.

After replying to your message initially I had spent a bit of time thinking about what I plan on doing with my upgrades in about 3 years and you have to consider that DDR4 RAM will be out, as well as clock rates on CPUs will be higher, and GPUs will offer more VRAM. There will always be something better, and definitely am not saying to go super cheap right now to build again in 3 years. There will be noticeable gains in components at that point in time, but not worth upgrading most of a system...with the exception of course being a GPU.

With all that being said, I would probably advise you to go a different route. For example, I absolutely hate how GPUs are sideways in computer towers, but I tolerate it because I don't move my system anywhere. However that is a lot of pressure on the connectors, and when I end up moving in a year or two and having room I am going to build a custom PC/server cabinet in my man-cave/bedroom so I can have the motherboard flat and the components such as the GPU connect more appropriately. I do not care for the square computer cases overall, but with the idea of you moving it around, you should really consider one so that your components can fit together in it better (less stress on them for moving anyway).

And I would recommend you go with a single GPU motherboard to save money...unless you know for sure you plan on running more than 1-2 displays at beyond 1080p in the near future. This is about what I would do in your situation if I planned on moving around a lot and wanting to game or do some video editing at 1080p on 1-2 displays:

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Y2swyc
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Y2swyc/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($339.98 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B85M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($63.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Kingston XMP Blu Red Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($75.71 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($52.91 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 780 Ti 3GB Superclocked ACX Video Card ($689.99 @ Micro Center)
Case: Fractal Design FD-CA-NODE-804-BL MicroATX Desktop Case ($109.99 @ Mwave)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($88.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1541.52
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-07-31 17:38 EDT-0400

I did not know if you needed or wanted an optical drive. You can install a slim slot loading disc drive into this case if you want to...I don't really have any recommendations for brands of those that are good so you would have to probably open another forum question for opinions. Otherwise this setup does offer a powerful system, you can upgrade the RAM but not the number of GPUs (it only supports one). It comes with three fans pre-installed but you may want to add at least one more so there would be two on each side...its up to you and what temperatures you end up getting.

Anyway, just my two cents...figuring that a square case would help the components get a bit less stress during constant moving as well as allowing you to box it up into a hard protective case easier.
 
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Maxarini

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First I just want to say thanks for the long and detailed answer. I'm still kind of new to this site but I made some other threads and your answer is the most detailed one of all of them.

I looked at that case and it seems great. Although one thing I don't understand is that you said that it only supports one GPU. were you referring to the case or the motherboard?(just wondering because newegg said that the case supports 2 GPU's.

Also I looked at the parts you chose and was wondering why the GPU you chose looked different than the one I chose even though it has the same name. Is there an advantage to having that one? I think the one I chose looked better but if this one has some sort of advantage I'll use it.

Lastly I wanted to ask how safe it is to travel with this case(when we travel sometimes we fly and sometimes we drive depending on how far it is). When we drive we usually drive to Oregon(its a 2 day drive for us). How likely is it that any of the components will get damaged when I travel by car and by plane?
 
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I had thought about going into more details at the time of my last post but figured that was enough information to process at once and you would ask any questions you had, so here we go with some more :) ...

The motherboard only supports one GPU, so yes you could switch out the motherboard for a different one that supports two GPUs, but if you do that you will have to pay quite a bit for the same features and the addition of supporting two NVidia GPUs. You could get a motherboard will the same features that supports two AMD GPUs for a bit more...but I personally prefer NVidia GPUs because of the additional features, some non-gaming programs run a lot better with them, they typically run cooler, and typically use less energy. Of course NVidia GPUs typically cost more too, but since you went with Intel over AMD CPU I figured you cared more about performance than costs as long as it was within your budget.

The motherboard I went with offers plenty of SATA III connections as well as 4 RAM modules can be added into it, I started your build off with 2 RAM modules to get 8 GB total, and you can add 2 more to get 16 GB. If you want to you could go with 8 GB RAM modules instead because the motherboard supports up to 32 GB total across all 4 slots. I also made sure that the motherboard had a PCIE x1 slot for a wifi card if you want to add one or a dedicated sound card for external speakers that are 7.1 channel surround sound. Since the GPU has HDMI I opted to save money by not having the fancier sound card built into the motherboard.

I chose the GPU I did primarily because of the cooling. It is the GPU that I am currently using and as you can see it comes with dual ACX fans (as well as an extra factory clock) over the standard GTX 780 Ti single fan for the reference version of the card. So this will allow the GPU to run cooler under heavier loads as well as perform slightly better thanks to that extra clock. Since you don't plan on overclocking it seemed ideal for this build.

As always traveling can be killer for computers. I mainly picked out this case and setup because it would cause less stress on the components while traveling. When you look at a normal computer tower you see the motherboard is mounted vertically and the GPU and heatsink/CPU fan is then mounted horizontally. This means that the weight of those components is being applied in just the connecting areas. So for the GPU it is worse because they are only connected via the PCIE port. There is nothing that is actually holding the GPU up than that connection, and you can see larger GPUs such as a GTX 780 Ti will sometimes lean a bit in those cases rather than being perfectly horizontal. So the weight is that much without enough support, meaning the connection is getting a lot of pressure, and you can Google examples of GPUs breaking from that. The heatsink/CPU fan is not as bad on some motherboards such as mine because I have a more expensive motherboard that has a solid metal back plate that supports my large CPU fan. With most motherboards you don't get that, but will get a mounting bracket that you would use to hook it all together, and that of course is just extra wear and tear....not as bad as a GPU but still it is something to keep an eye on for those larger components.

While the case I picked out has a similar setup, it also has some advantage when it comes to traveling. First off all you should be able to turn it on its side to have the motherboard horizontal and the GPU vertically connecting into it with gravity helping keep everything steady with reduced risk of damage. You would have to double check that the power button is not going to be an issue when doing that of course, but it should work fine. And you get the square compactness of it that allows for easier crating. Of course cases are just a matter of preference, and you could go with a different one that even offered handles to carry it. You would need to do some research into how you plan on packaging it when traveling, such as if you would crate it as well as what actual tower cases you can find (Yes a case to put your computer case into). Added bonus of the square (more square) case if reduced risk of tipping over, especially with those baggage handlers.

For all ease and to maximize the risk of damage I would really suggest keeping the packaging for the graphics card and whenever you travel, simply repackage that component and put it back into the system when you arrive at your destination.

I went with that particular power supply because it offers just enough power to properly run all of your components as well as any peripherals or additional hard drives you may add. And it is fully modular so any cables you are not using can be left out of the build and allow less clutter and better airflow in the case.

Overall this build is pretty darn good and can max out games great, as well as serving good purposes for video editing and auto cad applications decently.

The only real thing that the build may need is a dvd/cd drive if you want one, but as I said you would be better off asking someone else for what they think is a decent choice for that.
 
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Maxarini

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I'll take your advice and take out the GPU and put it in its packaging when I travel. I never really heard of crating before but if it will protect my computer I'll do it. The problem is that I have no idea where to get one. You said that it is a case you put your computer case into for extra protection but I don't know what the second case is actually called. Do you have any suggestions for a good "second case"? Also I was wondering if the motherboard you chose can have a wireless card and a sound card at the same time. It looks like it could from the pictures but I just wanted to make sure. Lastly is there a good spot in the case you chose to put some blue LED's?

Thanks again for the long replys
 
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In the forums here most people say to disassemble the whole or most of the computer, but I think you should be okay with removing the GPU only. Also they say to use anti-static bags. By crating I am talking about literally getting a wooden crate just the size of the pc with padding to protect it the best. It seems like moving around a lot could get expensive with baggage fees, but I am sure that depends on the airline and benefits programs. You could also look into larger travel bags and cushion the heck out of it.

The motherboard I chose does not have wireless or a 5.1/7.1 sound card. Then again it only costs around $64, so most of them less than $100 won't offer that. Also the smaller ones tend to get pretty expensive if you want features like that because the size just does not leave as much room for thing like that. Since the GPU will have HDMI, the sound will be played through the display. It claims to support 7.1 sound, but only has three audio ports in the back...which must be a typo. Of course headphones are always an option.

And the motherboard only has on board ethernet which is standard now-a-days, you can pick up a WiFi card for $15-$20 or so. Because the case has a decent little window you could put LEDs in that compartment to see them. And you could always switch out the fans for LED fans to add color.
 
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Maxarini

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Just to clarify, If I wanted to I could put a sound card and a WIFI card in the motherboard at the same time I could. Correct?

Also if I put a sound card in could I play sound through external speakers? whats the difference between 5.1 and 7.1 sound cards?
 
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It comes with 1 PCIE X16 (3.0) slot for GPU and 2 PCIE X1 (2.0) slot for things like sound cards or WiFi adapters. So yes you can use one of each.

You can use standard PC speakers with the current motherboard sound capabilities. And the difference between 5.1 and 7.1 is the number of speakers supported. The .1 is the bass, while the other 5 and 7 are the speakers themselves.
 
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Yes, WiFi is a reference to wireless connection and the WiFi card is a wireless card.

The most important things to look for when buying a sound card is that it matches your needs exactly, such as if you want 5.1 or 7.1 sound. There are many different features that they can offer, so you need to see what you really care about. If you plan on using normal external 2 speaker setup then the standard motherboard audio connectors should be fine. If you want to just use the sound through the HDMI/GPU port, then you don't even need a sound card. If you want 5 or 7 speaker setups, obviously you need the appropriate number for your choice. Then you have different options such as supported sound qualities and such.

For WiFi cards you primarily should be looking at what sort of network you will be using, such as a/b/g/n/ac etc. As well as the maximum transfer rates you will want. Typically you won't have to worry about transfer rates because the normal baseline for those rates are decent now-a-days on the cards. And it is important to note that most WiFi cards will support more than one type of network, with the highest end ones supporting the most networks...and ac if the up and coming baseline for WiFi connections within the next few years more than likely.
 
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I'm getting a wireless card for sure but I want to know, will a sound card actually make a difference with the motherboard you suggested?

Also do you know any good wifi/sound cards you could suggest?
 
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As I already said, unless you plan on using external speakers that are 5.1 or 7.1 channel, then the motherboard and GPU are fine for sound.

For wireless cards, I would advise you to start a new forum question and see what the general consensus is for those because I personally don't deal with any of them (tried a few but did not like it) and prefer a wired ethernet connection for my gaming PC.
 
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I know this is kind of random but I was wondering what exactly is thermal paste? What does it do? Where does it go? Does every build need it? If not would you recommend using it?
 
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Every build needs thermal paste and most if not all CPU coolers/heat-sinks that you would purchase will come with some. Thermal paste is either applied to the CPU by the builder or pre-applied to the heat-sink. It allows the heat from the CPU to be transferred to the heat-sink which them transfers it to either heat pipes for air cooling or to a liquid for liquid cooling. So you have to use some. There are better quality ones, and typically a decent aftermarket CPU heat-sink/fan will have a decent one come with it.
 
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I did choose a b85 motherboard rather than a newer/higher rated one with better options. But the motherboard and system will work the same in this motherboard, except it is not made for overclocking. If you plan on overclocking then you would need to get a better motherboard, which of course increases costs. To go to a z97 motherboard you will go from the $64 to $90 - $110 range for a similar one.

Update:

So without planning on overclocking, then I would not go with that type of motherboard. Also, if you do plan on overclocking, then you would need a better CPU cooler that would cost in the $80 - $100 range. So increase costs all around.

Update 2:

If your friend knows that much about computers, then they should be the one helping you. Good luck.
 
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Maxarini

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Now I'm looking for a monitor.

I wanted an ips display but it seems that they cant get very high refresh rates. How many HZ do I need for the gtx 780 ti at 1080p? (I really don't want screen tearing).

Do you know a monitor with that many HZ? Good and vivid colors are very important to me. I'm only getting a 22-24 inch monitor.

Do you have any suggestions?
 
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It depends on your budget. The hz does not matter for the most part, it just depends on what maximum fps you plan on using. So 60 hz is 60 fps, 120 hz ir 120 fps. There are displays that are brighter than others, and other features such as IPS that you have to consider. Best bet is to post that question in the forum under the appropriate tagline to get the most help with it.
 
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