Need help upgrading
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Gaming
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Components
Last response: in Components
raeldrikp
August 3, 2014 5:08:19 PM
I use my pc for mostly gaming and lately its been feeling slightly sluggish. I think its time for an upgrade, so I'd love some input on what the community feels my bottleneck(s) is. I know that SSD prices have fallen, but I don't feel the need for an SSD quite yet, since my understanding is that it would really only affect load times for games.
Motherboard: ASUS P8P67-M Pro (rev 3.0)
GPU: XFX HD 7970 DD Ghz edition
RAM: 8gb Ripjaws @1300mhz
OS:Windows 8.1 64-bit
CPU: i7 2700k
Storage: Two WD Caviar Black 1tb running in RAID 0
Motherboard: ASUS P8P67-M Pro (rev 3.0)
GPU: XFX HD 7970 DD Ghz edition
RAM: 8gb Ripjaws @1300mhz
OS:Windows 8.1 64-bit
CPU: i7 2700k
Storage: Two WD Caviar Black 1tb running in RAID 0
More about : upgrading
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raeldrikp
August 3, 2014 5:30:41 PM
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A) SSD helps Windows loads faster, if Windows loads faster then anything else (Games) won't be 'slowed down' by Windows 'looking' for things (Hey what font do I put on this sign? Hey Windows what is the sound file for a AK47? etc.)
B) I would do the basics first to make sure everything is up to SNUFF before considering hardware replacement (and also depends what your trying to 'push' hardware wise as 'compared' to what you used to 'push before' aka why does WatchDogs perform slower then COD:MW2, totally different discussion for why this is).
Download and run SPECCY, copy and paste the first tab to show your idle temps
Download and run MSI Afterburner, run some of the games, what temps are you getting when underload?
Open Computer, Can Air dust out the bunnies and use paint brush on the vents, coolers, fans, etc.
Did you install all Windows Updates? Including options except BING? Check them and repeat till ALL are installed.
Download and run Slim Drivers, install all the latest updates for alot of the other things 'under the hood' the video card interfaces with, but you don't need to reboot until you do the last update
If you believe you have the current Video Drivers, then do the following; remove all ATI/AMD software from PROGRAMS, download either 3D Guru's Driver Sweeper or download Driver Fusion and really remove all the AMD/ATI elements. Reboot and be in VGA mode, go to AMD and download then install the latest drivers, btu scroll down sometimes the newest is towards the bottom NOT TOP of the page (Catalyst).
Remove whatever AV your using and get AVIRA http://www.avira.com/en/download/product/avira-free-ant... (or go to www.filehippo.com and download Comodo/Panda or AVG (AVAST! was hacked so I don't recommend them anymore)) and do a full system scan - this repeatedly has resolved alot of people issue relying on MS Essentials.
Download Malwarebytes do a full system scan (AV doesn't pick up alot of malware) - this resolved almost ALL other similar posts to date as most had Malware the AV didn't pick up.
Repeat the AV/Malware scans till the system comes up clean.
After all this is done (since we do not know your system nor know if all this was done since the 'problems' occurred) and let us know the status of each of these. PLEASE DO NOT SKIP ANY or tell us 'you did it before', we are addressing this issue as it is right now, so let's do them 'again' if necessary just to make sure nothing got 'in' / messed up before you posted to Tom's.
B) I would do the basics first to make sure everything is up to SNUFF before considering hardware replacement (and also depends what your trying to 'push' hardware wise as 'compared' to what you used to 'push before' aka why does WatchDogs perform slower then COD:MW2, totally different discussion for why this is).
Download and run SPECCY, copy and paste the first tab to show your idle temps
Download and run MSI Afterburner, run some of the games, what temps are you getting when underload?
Open Computer, Can Air dust out the bunnies and use paint brush on the vents, coolers, fans, etc.
Did you install all Windows Updates? Including options except BING? Check them and repeat till ALL are installed.
Download and run Slim Drivers, install all the latest updates for alot of the other things 'under the hood' the video card interfaces with, but you don't need to reboot until you do the last update
If you believe you have the current Video Drivers, then do the following; remove all ATI/AMD software from PROGRAMS, download either 3D Guru's Driver Sweeper or download Driver Fusion and really remove all the AMD/ATI elements. Reboot and be in VGA mode, go to AMD and download then install the latest drivers, btu scroll down sometimes the newest is towards the bottom NOT TOP of the page (Catalyst).
Remove whatever AV your using and get AVIRA http://www.avira.com/en/download/product/avira-free-ant... (or go to www.filehippo.com and download Comodo/Panda or AVG (AVAST! was hacked so I don't recommend them anymore)) and do a full system scan - this repeatedly has resolved alot of people issue relying on MS Essentials.
Download Malwarebytes do a full system scan (AV doesn't pick up alot of malware) - this resolved almost ALL other similar posts to date as most had Malware the AV didn't pick up.
Repeat the AV/Malware scans till the system comes up clean.
After all this is done (since we do not know your system nor know if all this was done since the 'problems' occurred) and let us know the status of each of these. PLEASE DO NOT SKIP ANY or tell us 'you did it before', we are addressing this issue as it is right now, so let's do them 'again' if necessary just to make sure nothing got 'in' / messed up before you posted to Tom's.
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raeldrikp
August 4, 2014 3:14:50 AM
Tom Tancredi said:
A) SSD helps Windows loads faster, if Windows loads faster then anything else (Games) won't be 'slowed down' by Windows 'looking' for things (Hey what font do I put on this sign? Hey Windows what is the sound file for a AK47? etc.)B) I would do the basics first to make sure everything is up to SNUFF before considering hardware replacement (and also depends what your trying to 'push' hardware wise as 'compared' to what you used to 'push before' aka why does WatchDogs perform slower then COD:MW2, totally different discussion for why this is).
Download and run SPECCY, copy and paste the first tab to show your idle temps
Download and run MSI Afterburner, run some of the games, what temps are you getting when underload?
Open Computer, Can Air dust out the bunnies and use paint brush on the vents, coolers, fans, etc.
Did you install all Windows Updates? Including options except BING? Check them and repeat till ALL are installed.
Download and run Slim Drivers, install all the latest updates for alot of the other things 'under the hood' the video card interfaces with, but you don't need to reboot until you do the last update
If you believe you have the current Video Drivers, then do the following; remove all ATI/AMD software from PROGRAMS, download either 3D Guru's Driver Sweeper or download Driver Fusion and really remove all the AMD/ATI elements. Reboot and be in VGA mode, go to AMD and download then install the latest drivers, btu scroll down sometimes the newest is towards the bottom NOT TOP of the page (Catalyst).
Remove whatever AV your using and get AVIRA http://www.avira.com/en/download/product/avira-free-ant... (or go to www.filehippo.com and download Comodo/Panda or AVG (AVAST! was hacked so I don't recommend them anymore)) and do a full system scan - this repeatedly has resolved alot of people issue relying on MS Essentials.
Download Malwarebytes do a full system scan (AV doesn't pick up alot of malware) - this resolved almost ALL other similar posts to date as most had Malware the AV didn't pick up.
Repeat the AV/Malware scans till the system comes up clean.
After all this is done (since we do not know your system nor know if all this was done since the 'problems' occurred) and let us know the status of each of these. PLEASE DO NOT SKIP ANY or tell us 'you did it before', we are addressing this issue as it is right now, so let's do them 'again' if necessary just to make sure nothing got 'in' / messed up before you posted to Tom's.
STEP 1:
Operating System
Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit
CPU
Intel Core i7 2600K @ 3.40GHz 37 °C
Sandy Bridge 32nm Technology
RAM
8.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 668MHz (9-9-9-24)
Motherboard
ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. P8P67-M PRO (LGA1155) 30 °C
Graphics
LC-39LE440U (1920x1080@60Hz)
3072MB ATI AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series (XFX Pine Group) 41 °C
Storage
1863GB Intel Raid 0 Volume (RAID)
7GB Multiple Card Reader USB Device (USB)
3GB USB DISK USB Device (USB)
Optical Drives
DTSOFT Virtual CdRom Device
ASUS DRW-24B1ST a
Audio
Realtek High Definition Audio
STEP 2:
Metro LL Benchmark (Very High, 1080p, SSAA, AA 16x, Tessellation very high) GPU temp: 67-73 CPU temp: 56-60 Avg FPS 31 (3.41-92.33)
Crysis 3 (All settings very high, SMAA 4x, AA 16x) GPU Temp: 67-74 CPU Temp: 55-60 Avg FPS 36 (30-41)
Bioshock Infinite (Max settings) GPU Temp: 70-72 CPU Temp: 57-58 Avg FPS: 75 (15-186)
STEP 3:
Have all windows updates. Updated my realtek audio drivers. Removed graphics drivers (and all amd/ati folders) using DDU, and rebooted into Safe mode and downloaded 14.7 RC. Ran malwarebytes, and nothing came up. Turned off Windows Defender and installed Avira. I found two false positives, other than that nothing. Ran malwarebytes, and everythings ok.
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raeldrikp
August 4, 2014 3:14:50 AM
Tom Tancredi said:
A) SSD helps Windows loads faster, if Windows loads faster then anything else (Games) won't be 'slowed down' by Windows 'looking' for things (Hey what font do I put on this sign? Hey Windows what is the sound file for a AK47? etc.)B) I would do the basics first to make sure everything is up to SNUFF before considering hardware replacement (and also depends what your trying to 'push' hardware wise as 'compared' to what you used to 'push before' aka why does WatchDogs perform slower then COD:MW2, totally different discussion for why this is).
Download and run SPECCY, copy and paste the first tab to show your idle temps
Download and run MSI Afterburner, run some of the games, what temps are you getting when underload?
Open Computer, Can Air dust out the bunnies and use paint brush on the vents, coolers, fans, etc.
Did you install all Windows Updates? Including options except BING? Check them and repeat till ALL are installed.
Download and run Slim Drivers, install all the latest updates for alot of the other things 'under the hood' the video card interfaces with, but you don't need to reboot until you do the last update
If you believe you have the current Video Drivers, then do the following; remove all ATI/AMD software from PROGRAMS, download either 3D Guru's Driver Sweeper or download Driver Fusion and really remove all the AMD/ATI elements. Reboot and be in VGA mode, go to AMD and download then install the latest drivers, btu scroll down sometimes the newest is towards the bottom NOT TOP of the page (Catalyst).
Remove whatever AV your using and get AVIRA http://www.avira.com/en/download/product/avira-free-ant... (or go to www.filehippo.com and download Comodo/Panda or AVG (AVAST! was hacked so I don't recommend them anymore)) and do a full system scan - this repeatedly has resolved alot of people issue relying on MS Essentials.
Download Malwarebytes do a full system scan (AV doesn't pick up alot of malware) - this resolved almost ALL other similar posts to date as most had Malware the AV didn't pick up.
Repeat the AV/Malware scans till the system comes up clean.
After all this is done (since we do not know your system nor know if all this was done since the 'problems' occurred) and let us know the status of each of these. PLEASE DO NOT SKIP ANY or tell us 'you did it before', we are addressing this issue as it is right now, so let's do them 'again' if necessary just to make sure nothing got 'in' / messed up before you posted to Tom's.
STEP 1:
Operating System
Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit
CPU
Intel Core i7 2600K @ 3.40GHz 37 °C
Sandy Bridge 32nm Technology
RAM
8.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 668MHz (9-9-9-24)
Motherboard
ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. P8P67-M PRO (LGA1155) 30 °C
Graphics
LC-39LE440U (1920x1080@60Hz)
3072MB ATI AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series (XFX Pine Group) 41 °C
Storage
1863GB Intel Raid 0 Volume (RAID)
7GB Multiple Card Reader USB Device (USB)
3GB USB DISK USB Device (USB)
Optical Drives
DTSOFT Virtual CdRom Device
ASUS DRW-24B1ST a
Audio
Realtek High Definition Audio
STEP 2:
Metro LL Benchmark (Very High, 1080p, SSAA, AA 16x, Tessellation very high) GPU temp: 67-73 CPU temp: 56-60 Avg FPS 31 (3.41-92.33)
Crysis 3 (All settings very high, SMAA 4x, AA 16x) GPU Temp: 67-74 CPU Temp: 55-60 Avg FPS 36 (30-41)
Bioshock Infinite (Max settings) GPU Temp: 70-72 CPU Temp: 57-58 Avg FPS: 75 (15-186)
STEP 3:
Have all windows updates. Updated my realtek audio drivers. Removed graphics drivers (and all amd/ati folders) using DDU, and rebooted into Safe mode and downloaded 14.7 RC. Ran malwarebytes, and nothing came up. Turned off Windows Defender and installed Avira. I found two false positives, other than that nothing.
Btw, I have nothing OC'd yet, would that be a cost-effective method of getting more performance out of my system?
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raeldrikp said:
...CPU Intel Core i7 2600K @ 3.40GHz 37 °C Sandy Bridge 32nm Technology
RAM 8.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 668MHz (9-9-9-24)
Motherboard ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. P8P67-M PRO (LGA1155) 30 °C
Graphics 3072MB ATI AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series (XFX Pine Group) 41 °C
Storage 1863GB Intel Raid 0 Volume (RAID)
STEP 2:
Metro LL Benchmark (Very High, 1080p, SSAA, AA 16x, Tessellation very high) GPU temp: 67-73 CPU temp: 56-60 Avg FPS 31 (3.41-92.33)
Crysis 3 (All settings very high, SMAA 4x, AA 16x) GPU Temp: 67-74 CPU Temp: 55-60 Avg FPS 36 (30-41)
Bioshock Infinite (Max settings) GPU Temp: 70-72 CPU Temp: 57-58 Avg FPS: 75 (15-186)
Btw, I have nothing OC'd yet, would that be a cost-effective method of getting more performance out of my system?
Okay first I would suggest that most likely the RAM seems to be low end, most RAM gamers have runs over 1Ghz to normally 2Ghz http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8P67M_PRO/ "Dual-Channel DDR3 2200(O.C.) / 2133(O.C.) / 1866(O.C.) / 1600(O.C.) / 1333 / 1066MHz support"
As yours is running HALF that speed the first thing I would be looking into are
a) BIOS update
b) have TWO RAM stick to make Dual-Channel work, you can't optimally utilize the multicore CPUs with a SINGLE RAM stick.
c) swap out current ram for a higher end (OC) RAM? Minimally you should be at 1333, also check the TIMING, this is key, if you can get lower timing (7-7-7-9) it runs alot faster BUT is totally based on CPU / Mobo requirements.
Second, your on Sandy Bridge, which is much slower then the current (now being replaced out) Haswell chipset / CPU. While your i7 should be okay, improvement will be seen with a newer Mobo + CPU (which WILL require new RAM as well).
Third, Take your 2GB off RAID if it is a single drive, RAID is not very effective below RAID 3 especially on large (TB) drives. Mechanical is still mechanical. I would also check (as yours didn't seem to clarify what HDD it is) on what is the RPM speed of the HDD? If your running 5400RPM drives this WILL impact your system greatly, and best to be using a 7200RPM drive as the storage/programs and second main drive (as noted before) SSD as the OS / Boot drive. This will overall improve performance on the system but will not significantly increase the FPS, it will remove the OBSTACLE of Windows being 'slow' to respond and impacting the FPS (drops, pauses, loads, etc.).
4th DOWNGRADE YOUR GRAPHICS. The reason your getting such crappy (FPS 31 MLL, Crysis 3, etc.) FPS is because your pushing harder then your system can perform, and depends what 7900 Series this is (7950 performs less then 7970 for example). Downgrade turning off VSynch, AA down to 8x then 4x, etc. to improve performance. To demonstrate this, you can look at this 3 yr old BF3 scores downgrading the graphics when tested on i7-3xxx chipset http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-r... .
5th Replace the GPU. Now compared to the newest R9 290x or the 7990, your card looks like it it is performing 'as expected' which is to say low performance for a 'old' card (3 years) when trying to 'max' the settings.
http://gamegpu.ru/images/remote/http--www.gamegpu.ru-im...
http://cdn.overclock.net/a/a5/a510ae48_1nKFzv5.png
Though just replacing the GPU won't do much if your still running low end, single RAM stick on a 5400RPM HDD. So that is my take on things.
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raeldrikp
August 6, 2014 10:20:08 AM
Tom Tancredi said:
A) SSD helps Windows loads faster, if Windows loads faster then anything else (Games) won't be 'slowed down' by Windows 'looking' for things (Hey what font do I put on this sign? Hey Windows what is the sound file for a AK47? etc.)B) I would do the basics first to make sure everything is up to SNUFF before considering hardware replacement (and also depends what your trying to 'push' hardware wise as 'compared' to what you used to 'push before' aka why does WatchDogs perform slower then COD:MW2, totally different discussion for why this is).
Download and run SPECCY, copy and paste the first tab to show your idle temps
Download and run MSI Afterburner, run some of the games, what temps are you getting when underload?
Open Computer, Can Air dust out the bunnies and use paint brush on the vents, coolers, fans, etc.
Did you install all Windows Updates? Including options except BING? Check them and repeat till ALL are installed.
Download and run Slim Drivers, install all the latest updates for alot of the other things 'under the hood' the video card interfaces with, but you don't need to reboot until you do the last update
If you believe you have the current Video Drivers, then do the following; remove all ATI/AMD software from PROGRAMS, download either 3D Guru's Driver Sweeper or download Driver Fusion and really remove all the AMD/ATI elements. Reboot and be in VGA mode, go to AMD and download then install the latest drivers, btu scroll down sometimes the newest is towards the bottom NOT TOP of the page (Catalyst).
Remove whatever AV your using and get AVIRA http://www.avira.com/en/download/product/avira-free-ant... (or go to www.filehippo.com and download Comodo/Panda or AVG (AVAST! was hacked so I don't recommend them anymore)) and do a full system scan - this repeatedly has resolved alot of people issue relying on MS Essentials.
Download Malwarebytes do a full system scan (AV doesn't pick up alot of malware) - this resolved almost ALL other similar posts to date as most had Malware the AV didn't pick up.
Repeat the AV/Malware scans till the system comes up clean.
After all this is done (since we do not know your system nor know if all this was done since the 'problems' occurred) and let us know the status of each of these. PLEASE DO NOT SKIP ANY or tell us 'you did it before', we are addressing this issue as it is right now, so let's do them 'again' if necessary just to make sure nothing got 'in' / messed up before you posted to Tom's.
Tom Tancredi said:
raeldrikp said:
...CPU Intel Core i7 2600K @ 3.40GHz 37 °C Sandy Bridge 32nm Technology
RAM 8.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 668MHz (9-9-9-24)
Motherboard ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. P8P67-M PRO (LGA1155) 30 °C
Graphics 3072MB ATI AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series (XFX Pine Group) 41 °C
Storage 1863GB Intel Raid 0 Volume (RAID)
STEP 2:
Metro LL Benchmark (Very High, 1080p, SSAA, AA 16x, Tessellation very high) GPU temp: 67-73 CPU temp: 56-60 Avg FPS 31 (3.41-92.33)
Crysis 3 (All settings very high, SMAA 4x, AA 16x) GPU Temp: 67-74 CPU Temp: 55-60 Avg FPS 36 (30-41)
Bioshock Infinite (Max settings) GPU Temp: 70-72 CPU Temp: 57-58 Avg FPS: 75 (15-186)
Btw, I have nothing OC'd yet, would that be a cost-effective method of getting more performance out of my system?
Okay first I would suggest that most likely the RAM seems to be low end, most RAM gamers have runs over 1Ghz to normally 2Ghz http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8P67M_PRO/ "Dual-Channel DDR3 2200(O.C.) / 2133(O.C.) / 1866(O.C.) / 1600(O.C.) / 1333 / 1066MHz support"
As yours is running HALF that speed the first thing I would be looking into are
a) BIOS update
b) have TWO RAM stick to make Dual-Channel work, you can't optimally utilize the multicore CPUs with a SINGLE RAM stick.
c) swap out current ram for a higher end (OC) RAM? Minimally you should be at 1333, also check the TIMING, this is key, if you can get lower timing (7-7-7-9) it runs alot faster BUT is totally based on CPU / Mobo requirements.
Second, your on Sandy Bridge, which is much slower then the current (now being replaced out) Haswell chipset / CPU. While your i7 should be okay, improvement will be seen with a newer Mobo + CPU (which WILL require new RAM as well).
Third, Take your 2GB off RAID if it is a single drive, RAID is not very effective below RAID 3 especially on large (TB) drives. Mechanical is still mechanical. I would also check (as yours didn't seem to clarify what HDD it is) on what is the RPM speed of the HDD? If your running 5400RPM drives this WILL impact your system greatly, and best to be using a 7200RPM drive as the storage/programs and second main drive (as noted before) SSD as the OS / Boot drive. This will overall improve performance on the system but will not significantly increase the FPS, it will remove the OBSTACLE of Windows being 'slow' to respond and impacting the FPS (drops, pauses, loads, etc.).
4th DOWNGRADE YOUR GRAPHICS. The reason your getting such crappy (FPS 31 MLL, Crysis 3, etc.) FPS is because your pushing harder then your system can perform, and depends what 7900 Series this is (7950 performs less then 7970 for example). Downgrade turning off VSynch, AA down to 8x then 4x, etc. to improve performance. To demonstrate this, you can look at this 3 yr old BF3 scores downgrading the graphics when tested on i7-3xxx chipset http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-r... .
5th Replace the GPU. Now compared to the newest R9 290x or the 7990, your card looks like it it is performing 'as expected' which is to say low performance for a 'old' card (3 years) when trying to 'max' the settings.
http://gamegpu.ru/images/remote/http--www.gamegpu.ru-im...
http://cdn.overclock.net/a/a5/a510ae48_1nKFzv5.png
Though just replacing the GPU won't do much if your still running low end, single RAM stick on a 5400RPM HDD. So that is my take on things.
@Tom Tancredi
1. I'm quite confused here. According to my understanding these monitoring apps will always show halved values, due to the nature of it being double-rate memory. Well at least according to this Tom’s Hardware post (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/258466-29-1333mhz-run...). My BIOS is up to date, so no issue there. In fact, my BIOS and windows task manager seem to display my RAM running at 1333mhz. And yes, I do have it in two sticks.
2. I realize my CPU’s quite old. I held off on Ivy and Haswell, due to a distinct lack of cash and need. However its running at 4.4ghz, or at least that’s what its been OC’d using an old configuration.
3.I didn't specify which HDD I had in the speccy sheet, since I was told to "copy and paste", but I had included it in the OP. I’m using two Western Digital Caviar Black 1tb (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...). I just ran them in RAID 0, for the supposed increase in speed. Moreover, I'd like to clarify: Windows isn't running in any sluggish manner and my boot time is actually quite fast (well not as fast a SSD, but pretty nice).
4. Yeah I know... downgrade graphics. I'm currently using a XFX HD 7970 Ghz Edition (mem clock@ 1500mhz, GPU clock@1050mhz), not OC’d. (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...)
What I really want to know is, which component should I upgrade next?. Every gamer I’ve met keeps telling me to get an SSD, especially now after really low costs (crucial MX100). Others have said that I should up my ram, in amount and speeds (e.g. 16/32gb @1800/2100mhz). I don’t have the cash to upgrade my GPU anytime soon, however I haven’t OC’d it yet. So, advice?
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Hello OP:
Your initial statement was "I use my pc for mostly gaming and lately its been feeling slightly sluggish. " You didn't specify how you gauge or determining the "feeling" much less any factual numbers on specific titles to demonstrate the differences, or is it a conception just in your head / gut when comparing to 'friend' / Youtube video you saw. Given this and we never talked about your system before, it is usually good to do some basics and go over some specifics that may actually be causing a 'underlying' issue you can't really 'see' but you 'feel'. Thus I addressed my response in that way, I hope you can understand that.
1. I'm quite confused here. According to my understanding these monitoring apps will always show halved values, .... task manager seem to display my RAM running at 1333mhz. And yes, I do have it in two sticks.
True, and equally otherwise there is issues where people have only put in one stick so yes it is reading it right (667Mhz) because it isn't getting Dual Channeling going as well. When I presenting the option: " http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8P67M_PRO/ Dual-Channel DDR3 2200(O.C.) / 2133(O.C.) / 1866(O.C.) / 1600(O.C.) / 1333 / 1066MHz support" I also was trying to demonstrate you do have alot of wiggle room (2200 in OC) to improve performance right off with a upgrade in RAM that supports the OC, which in turn would remove the "feeling slightly sluggish"
2. I realize my CPU’s quite old. I held off on Ivy and Haswell, due to a distinct lack of cash and need. However its running at 4.4ghz, or at least that’s what its been OC’d using an old configuration.
Meh. If you checked my profile you will see I am still on a Intel Core i7 740QM @ 1.73GHz. Your opening question was "I'd love some input on what the community feels my bottleneck", and I was only providing a response that met your question, not trying to 'diss' your CPU age.
3.I didn't specify which HDD I had in the speccy sheet, since I was told to "copy and paste", but I had included it in the OP. I’m using two Western Digital Caviar Black 1tb (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...). I just ran them in RAID 0, for the supposed increase in speed. Moreover, I'd like to clarify: Windows isn't running in any sluggish manner and my boot time is actually quite fast (well not as fast a SSD, but pretty nice).
I understand your thoughts on this, and was offering a answer again to "what the community feels my bottleneck". While you don't feel that Windows is "running in any sluggish manner ", your would be QUITE surprised how much it does 'impact' game loads and other issues once you switch JUST the OS to SSD. I have the same HDD (931GB Seagate ST1000LM014-1EJ164 ) as before which I had all my STEAM games downloaded to (used the trick to keep from having to redownload, uhmmm 750GB of games.... ) and just installed my OS to SSD clean and started some of my old titles to see the differences and to say they were much 'SNAPPIER' is a understatement. As I indicated, all games rely on the OS first and foremost to do everything, be it as simple as 'hey I need to load the code to render a Tank' to 'what is the sound of a bullet?' the game asks the OS and how long it takes the OS to 'find' impacts the game. Really, unless your running RAPTOR 10K, nothing will let you 'see' or 'feel' how 'sluggish manner' the OS was running before switching to the SSD.
4. Yeah I know... downgrade graphics. I'm currently using a XFX HD 7970 Ghz Edition (mem clock@ 1500mhz, GPU clock@1050mhz), not OC’d. (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...)
Well I wanted to backup what I was saying. As my opening statement still asks a few key questions,
"You didn't specify how you gauge or determining the "feeling" much less any factual numbers on specific titles to demonstrate the differences, or is it a conception just in your head / gut when comparing to 'friend' / Youtube video you saw."
Given this, and that your putting 'balls to the max wall' on the MOST DEMANDING games ever, well honestly you're within parameters for the performance for THAT hardware, unless there was something underlying (hence all my steps because some stupid I/O driver didn't install or some malware been running in the background unseen, etc. to clear out ANY other software possibility).
What I really want to know is, which component should I upgrade next?. Every gamer I’ve met keeps telling me to get an SSD, especially now after really low costs (crucial MX100). Others have said that I should up my ram, in amount and speeds (e.g. 16/32gb @1800/2100mhz). I don’t have the cash to upgrade my GPU anytime soon, however I haven’t OC’d it yet. So, advice?
I laid out again in this response the changes you can do, so let me summarize since we gotten pretty lengthy in this thread:
A) Your not demonstrating or showing how you gauge the 'feeling'. As noted the biggest difference is your maxing out the most demanding games on hardware that won't perform any better then it has, so not sure what your trying to accomplish 'more' as your near maxing out already? 60FPS for MLL at Max settings? What would be the 'values' or 'gauge' that you system isn't 'Sluggish' anymore????
B) You may have overlooked (my steps) something underlying and SAVE YOUR MONEY with just a simple 'software' solution for the improvement you're trying to accomplish. As noted simple old I/O driver didn't' get updated suddenly opens the path full throttle.
C) SSD, SSD, SSD, SSD, oh did I mention SSD! Yes it will make a difference but no MLL MAX setting suddenly jump from 30FPS to 90FPS will NOT happen. You will 'feel' it and you will see some numbers increase AND you should get a 2TB drive as well to move your 'RAID' to it and put it as a normal AHCI. RAIDs can and DO break, and once the 'RAID' breaks your data is UNRECOVERABLE, due to how it puts 'some data here, but some over there' no software can recover a RAID once it breaks, and it can break with just one good power surge (seen it happen). In the case of how RAID 3 (using 3 drives) or the minimum RAID 5 works, if something happens (one drive breaks/ hiccups) the entire RAID itself can self heal (Cyclic Redundancy), once the bad drive is replaced. There is no such recoverable option in RAID 0,1
D) OC (means more heat) would be helpful and also with new RAM to push it you can get much more (double) the speed out of the RAM increasing the performance. But you do need to be ultra careful as the PCs are VERY sensitive in OCing as you probably know. Can't count the number of posts here where a Benchmark in OC worked great then gaming crashes the PC, and simply throttling down a bit more (increments of .1 I believe) did all the differences in the world (Underclocking, Undervolting, etc.). WORST is EVERY CPU IS UNIQUE, so just because someone with the SAME CPU, Mobo, BIOS, RAM does the SAME settings as you does NOT guarantee it will work 'the same OC level'. Ask the Mods, I seen them post it numerous times as well.. just the nature of the beast sadly.
E) THROTTLEBACK YOUR GAME DEMANDS would be the IMMEDIATE and most impactive way to improve 'sluggish' performance. Does MLL have to be fully balls to the wall? Note the numbers I provided and settings, the game looks pretty damn shiney but you get alot better performance then how your currently playing.
Your initial statement was "I use my pc for mostly gaming and lately its been feeling slightly sluggish. " You didn't specify how you gauge or determining the "feeling" much less any factual numbers on specific titles to demonstrate the differences, or is it a conception just in your head / gut when comparing to 'friend' / Youtube video you saw. Given this and we never talked about your system before, it is usually good to do some basics and go over some specifics that may actually be causing a 'underlying' issue you can't really 'see' but you 'feel'. Thus I addressed my response in that way, I hope you can understand that.
raeldrikp said:
1. I'm quite confused here. According to my understanding these monitoring apps will always show halved values, .... task manager seem to display my RAM running at 1333mhz. And yes, I do have it in two sticks.
True, and equally otherwise there is issues where people have only put in one stick so yes it is reading it right (667Mhz) because it isn't getting Dual Channeling going as well. When I presenting the option: " http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8P67M_PRO/ Dual-Channel DDR3 2200(O.C.) / 2133(O.C.) / 1866(O.C.) / 1600(O.C.) / 1333 / 1066MHz support" I also was trying to demonstrate you do have alot of wiggle room (2200 in OC) to improve performance right off with a upgrade in RAM that supports the OC, which in turn would remove the "feeling slightly sluggish"
raeldrikp said:
2. I realize my CPU’s quite old. I held off on Ivy and Haswell, due to a distinct lack of cash and need. However its running at 4.4ghz, or at least that’s what its been OC’d using an old configuration.
Meh. If you checked my profile you will see I am still on a Intel Core i7 740QM @ 1.73GHz. Your opening question was "I'd love some input on what the community feels my bottleneck", and I was only providing a response that met your question, not trying to 'diss' your CPU age.
raeldrikp said:
3.I didn't specify which HDD I had in the speccy sheet, since I was told to "copy and paste", but I had included it in the OP. I’m using two Western Digital Caviar Black 1tb (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...). I just ran them in RAID 0, for the supposed increase in speed. Moreover, I'd like to clarify: Windows isn't running in any sluggish manner and my boot time is actually quite fast (well not as fast a SSD, but pretty nice).
I understand your thoughts on this, and was offering a answer again to "what the community feels my bottleneck". While you don't feel that Windows is "running in any sluggish manner ", your would be QUITE surprised how much it does 'impact' game loads and other issues once you switch JUST the OS to SSD. I have the same HDD (931GB Seagate ST1000LM014-1EJ164 ) as before which I had all my STEAM games downloaded to (used the trick to keep from having to redownload, uhmmm 750GB of games.... ) and just installed my OS to SSD clean and started some of my old titles to see the differences and to say they were much 'SNAPPIER' is a understatement. As I indicated, all games rely on the OS first and foremost to do everything, be it as simple as 'hey I need to load the code to render a Tank' to 'what is the sound of a bullet?' the game asks the OS and how long it takes the OS to 'find' impacts the game. Really, unless your running RAPTOR 10K, nothing will let you 'see' or 'feel' how 'sluggish manner' the OS was running before switching to the SSD.
raeldrikp said:
4. Yeah I know... downgrade graphics. I'm currently using a XFX HD 7970 Ghz Edition (mem clock@ 1500mhz, GPU clock@1050mhz), not OC’d. (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...)
Well I wanted to backup what I was saying. As my opening statement still asks a few key questions,
"You didn't specify how you gauge or determining the "feeling" much less any factual numbers on specific titles to demonstrate the differences, or is it a conception just in your head / gut when comparing to 'friend' / Youtube video you saw."
Given this, and that your putting 'balls to the max wall' on the MOST DEMANDING games ever, well honestly you're within parameters for the performance for THAT hardware, unless there was something underlying (hence all my steps because some stupid I/O driver didn't install or some malware been running in the background unseen, etc. to clear out ANY other software possibility).
raeldrikp said:
What I really want to know is, which component should I upgrade next?. Every gamer I’ve met keeps telling me to get an SSD, especially now after really low costs (crucial MX100). Others have said that I should up my ram, in amount and speeds (e.g. 16/32gb @1800/2100mhz). I don’t have the cash to upgrade my GPU anytime soon, however I haven’t OC’d it yet. So, advice?
I laid out again in this response the changes you can do, so let me summarize since we gotten pretty lengthy in this thread:
A) Your not demonstrating or showing how you gauge the 'feeling'. As noted the biggest difference is your maxing out the most demanding games on hardware that won't perform any better then it has, so not sure what your trying to accomplish 'more' as your near maxing out already? 60FPS for MLL at Max settings? What would be the 'values' or 'gauge' that you system isn't 'Sluggish' anymore????
B) You may have overlooked (my steps) something underlying and SAVE YOUR MONEY with just a simple 'software' solution for the improvement you're trying to accomplish. As noted simple old I/O driver didn't' get updated suddenly opens the path full throttle.
C) SSD, SSD, SSD, SSD, oh did I mention SSD! Yes it will make a difference but no MLL MAX setting suddenly jump from 30FPS to 90FPS will NOT happen. You will 'feel' it and you will see some numbers increase AND you should get a 2TB drive as well to move your 'RAID' to it and put it as a normal AHCI. RAIDs can and DO break, and once the 'RAID' breaks your data is UNRECOVERABLE, due to how it puts 'some data here, but some over there' no software can recover a RAID once it breaks, and it can break with just one good power surge (seen it happen). In the case of how RAID 3 (using 3 drives) or the minimum RAID 5 works, if something happens (one drive breaks/ hiccups) the entire RAID itself can self heal (Cyclic Redundancy), once the bad drive is replaced. There is no such recoverable option in RAID 0,1
D) OC (means more heat) would be helpful and also with new RAM to push it you can get much more (double) the speed out of the RAM increasing the performance. But you do need to be ultra careful as the PCs are VERY sensitive in OCing as you probably know. Can't count the number of posts here where a Benchmark in OC worked great then gaming crashes the PC, and simply throttling down a bit more (increments of .1 I believe) did all the differences in the world (Underclocking, Undervolting, etc.). WORST is EVERY CPU IS UNIQUE, so just because someone with the SAME CPU, Mobo, BIOS, RAM does the SAME settings as you does NOT guarantee it will work 'the same OC level'. Ask the Mods, I seen them post it numerous times as well.. just the nature of the beast sadly.
E) THROTTLEBACK YOUR GAME DEMANDS would be the IMMEDIATE and most impactive way to improve 'sluggish' performance. Does MLL have to be fully balls to the wall? Note the numbers I provided and settings, the game looks pretty damn shiney but you get alot better performance then how your currently playing.
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raeldrikp
August 7, 2014 12:45:53 AM
@Tom Tancredi
(I've removed the quotes, since as you pointed out its getting quite lengthy)
Looking back at my most recent post, I realized that my tone may have been unnecessarily aggressive, or construed as such. I'd like to take this moment to say that I appreciate the time you're taking to help me with my "issue".
Let's forget about how I stated my PC was acting "sluggish". I'm not all too concerned about RAID failures, since there isn't any important information on my gaming rig (most is either on my laptop, backed up on the cloud, or on a local server). Admittedly losing a lot of my locally stored games/apps, would be a pain to download again, but luckily my internet package doesn't have a data cap.
So at this moment you would suggest that the next upgrade I pursue is either an SSD (I'm thinking of a crucial MX100, any thoughts?), or an increase in RAM (capacity and RAM), or OC my GPU (using a dedicated cooling system). Right now I have only about $150, so based on that what do you suggest that I prioritize?
(I've removed the quotes, since as you pointed out its getting quite lengthy)
Looking back at my most recent post, I realized that my tone may have been unnecessarily aggressive, or construed as such. I'd like to take this moment to say that I appreciate the time you're taking to help me with my "issue".
Let's forget about how I stated my PC was acting "sluggish". I'm not all too concerned about RAID failures, since there isn't any important information on my gaming rig (most is either on my laptop, backed up on the cloud, or on a local server). Admittedly losing a lot of my locally stored games/apps, would be a pain to download again, but luckily my internet package doesn't have a data cap.
So at this moment you would suggest that the next upgrade I pursue is either an SSD (I'm thinking of a crucial MX100, any thoughts?), or an increase in RAM (capacity and RAM), or OC my GPU (using a dedicated cooling system). Right now I have only about $150, so based on that what do you suggest that I prioritize?
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Reply to raeldrikp
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http://techreport.com/review/26532/crucial-mx100-solid-... Suggests otherwise, that (like myself and many others) a Samsung EVO would be a better value for your SSD purchase. The different (not increased AMOUNT OF) RAM can only be justified based on your CPU and BIOS allow the better OCing of RAM to occur (you MAY be able to tweak out what you have in place, but you will have to check into that yourself). That is all described and specified in your manual, and I would do a BIOS update in anycase if there is one available.
ANY OCing of ANY PART would require a cost outlay to change the current cooling system to one that can 'handle' that level of OCing. You stated before you hit 4GHz, but the point is stably playing all the time at 4GHz without causing ANY part of the computer to overheat (Yeah your cooling off that CPU, but that heat just blew into your GPU and now it is overheating... etc.). My easiest recommendation on that is to use incense. Simply light a incense, place it near the vents/fans and 'see' how things are moving. Then open the case and again repeat 'internally' to see how things are / are not moving in the case. Based on what you observe will tell you what parts needs to be added/improved, and most of all if one 'powerful cooling' system suddenly impacting another part of your overall PC.
To ANSWER what you asked specifically: No ONE $150 purchase will make the change your intent on. No ONE purchase will make "THAT BIG" of a change. A combination of OC RAM, OC CPU, OC GPU with SSD will provide a HUGE difference 'collectively'. For immediate 'impression', I always read / hear the same thing, once you put in a SSD your system feels 'snappier'. Things open faster, things don't just click and you wait for it to finally open, etc. But otherwise you won't see (as mentioned) a huge FPS jump /change in MLL Maxed out or other 'maxed to the hilt' titles.
ANY OCing of ANY PART would require a cost outlay to change the current cooling system to one that can 'handle' that level of OCing. You stated before you hit 4GHz, but the point is stably playing all the time at 4GHz without causing ANY part of the computer to overheat (Yeah your cooling off that CPU, but that heat just blew into your GPU and now it is overheating... etc.). My easiest recommendation on that is to use incense. Simply light a incense, place it near the vents/fans and 'see' how things are moving. Then open the case and again repeat 'internally' to see how things are / are not moving in the case. Based on what you observe will tell you what parts needs to be added/improved, and most of all if one 'powerful cooling' system suddenly impacting another part of your overall PC.
To ANSWER what you asked specifically: No ONE $150 purchase will make the change your intent on. No ONE purchase will make "THAT BIG" of a change. A combination of OC RAM, OC CPU, OC GPU with SSD will provide a HUGE difference 'collectively'. For immediate 'impression', I always read / hear the same thing, once you put in a SSD your system feels 'snappier'. Things open faster, things don't just click and you wait for it to finally open, etc. But otherwise you won't see (as mentioned) a huge FPS jump /change in MLL Maxed out or other 'maxed to the hilt' titles.
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