ITX Build help / advice request

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4DC_Resin_Smoker

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Very soon I'm moving to Germany and would like to bring my computer with me but have discovered that the fees for shipping to be outrageous.! As such I plan on rebuilding my PC into a ITX form factor while reusing a few of the primary components from my old system. The plan being that I can go through the airport and arrive in Germany with the PC in tow.

Old Stuff.

-CoolerMaster Cosmos Case (Best case I've even owned)
-Zalman 120mm CPU cooler (Big & loud but cools pretty well)
-AMD FX-8150 CPU (It can single-handedly bring about climate change)
-ASUS Sabertooth 990FX (ASUS is great)
-GSKILL DDR3 1600 (16 GB)
-Zalman PSU 750 Watt
-EVGA 670GTX
-Multiple SSD drives

What I'd like in a new system.
-i7-4790S (low wattage to keep cooler) w/ 1150 socket
-Corsair 250D case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139033
-Will reuse EVGA 670 and SSD drives

What I need help with:
-Motherboard ITX form factor (Prefer ASUS if possible and something that's proven)
-PSU should be changed out as odds are that this systems power requirements are well below what this unit is capable of and as such replacing it should save on the power bill and the overall temps.
-Ram is a significant issue as I no longer know what is considered optimal for the newer CPU / MB's available.
-As silly as it sounds, cooling is the biggest problem. First off with the use of the Corsair 250D case I figure that the available space for a traditional fan will be very limited. (under 100mm most likely) Furthermore, should a water-cooled option be chosen, will the radiator fit while providing adequate heat transfer? Obviously I don't want to cook eggs on the top of the case so keeping everything cool and quiet is more important than performance. (I don't plan to overclock)

Thank you in advance!

Resin

 
Solution
Rammy
Come to this one a bit late, and you seem to have made some progress, but here's my advice.

i7 - The "T" versions of CPUs are going to yeild significantly lower power usage, but the "S" versions aren't really going to make a dramatic difference unless you are comparing both a standard i7 and an "S" running at 100% load all of the time. In general use, power demands rise and fall and I'd generally stick with conventional i7s - you get much more for your money.

Memory - If you are using anything under a Z-series motherboard then you are limited to 1600 ram. Buying anything "faster" is pointless as it will just run at 1600 speed.

PSU- Just a quick note. PSUs don't draw their stated wattage from the wall, that's the...
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bradsctt

bradsctt

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Im also in the middle of a ITX build, and having some of the same questions pop up.

For ASUS, the H97I PLUS could be a good option.

If you want Wi-Fi, you can either buy a USB dongle, or pay more to get this Z97 board instead:
ASUS Z97I PLUS

The board im mainly looking at, and a cheaper alternative board with Wi-Fi could be the Asrock Z97E-ITX/AC.

For the power supply in my ITX build, im using a Corsair RM 550 PSU, as it provides near silent performance and low heat, as well as being fully modular, so less cable clutter.

For RAM, you could get a kit like Kingston HyperX FURY 8GB, however its really your own preference. Both of those Z97 board support DDR3 up to 3000MHz, so they will run any speed you want. Im not so sure about the H97 board though.

Im also using a 250D for my case =D
Im not sure about the clearance for a traditional air cooler, but with the 250D, the right hand side of the case has mountings for a 240mm radiator, such as a Corsair H100i, but you could also use a single can cooler instead.
 
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bradsctt

bradsctt

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Hi, at this stage im in the middle of the build, so i dont have all the parts. Im currently considering that Asrock board, but i havn't bought a CPU or cooler yet.

My tower is too big to take to other people's houses for LAN gaming, so ive decided to give ITX a go, and try to make the most out of the least money that i can(Im 16, so its hard to get a large amount of money in one go.)

For a cooler, my plan is to use either a H80i or H100i , or maybe custom loop with a Pentium Anniversary edition to get some heavy OC out of it. Im planning to match it with a GTX 750Ti and maybe do some custom cable sleeving.

There is quite a lot of build videos on Youtube of people installing the H100i in a 250D, so you should be able to get a good idea of how much effort is required to install it.
 
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4DC_Resin_Smoker

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Bradsctt,

So from the boards you've listed...

ASUS H97I-PLUS = $109 (No Wifi and highest memory speed DDR3 1600)
ASUS Z97I-PLUS = $159 (Wifi and DDR3 3200 support)
Asrock 97E-ITX/AC = $135 (DDR3 3200 support, no wifi)

While the Rock appears to be the better option, I've NO experience with their products and feel hesitant with that. Have you seen the performance and reliability specs for this board / mfr ?
 
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bradsctt

bradsctt

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Hi, the Asrock does have Wifi?

All of the reviews i've seen are good, and the performance charts for the board show it matching most higher priced Full ATX boards. The board is one of the things im still deciding on too, as im not sure about the colour mainly, and how i would sleeve to match it.
 
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bradsctt

bradsctt

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I hadnt seen that case before, is your GTX 670 under 290mm? Otherwise it may not fit.

Just one intake and one exhaust fan may not keep the GTX 670 cool enough?

The 250D is $20 cheaper, and has got quite a lot more space and fan mounts.

Agreed, reliability is more important than colour.
 
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4DC_Resin_Smoker

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Bradsctt,

Ok after looking over the Asrock I've noticed quite a few posts on Newegg similar to the following:

"The only thing that could ruin a reputation for this board would be abnormally high failure rates. As long as this is not the case this board is a keeper considering you get all the Z97 sought after features for less than $140.00 in m-ITX format."

Being that I am about to travel overseas and will find it hard to seek a replacement I don't think an Asrock MB would be worth the risk.
 
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4DC_Resin_Smoker

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It's 9.5 inches long or 241mm. (can imagine someone from the peanut gallery shouting "but i'm bigger"...Smirk)

 
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bradsctt

bradsctt

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Fair enough, moving away would make the RMA more difficult.

The 250D is cheaper, so it would probably be a better option than that Lian Li case.
 
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4DC_Resin_Smoker

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Took a look at the MSI and saw a few gripes about the wifi right off the bat however the price and the support for up to DDR3 2267 memory is nice.

Question: why the recommendation for the DDR3 1600 memory? I'd of thought that a faster memory would of helped the overall performance of the system. I'm guessing that this is a cost conscious choice / recommendation?

PS I have 4 sticks of GSkill DDR3 1600 in my current rig.

Resin
 
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4DC_Resin_Smoker

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Oh about the GTX 670... do you think that this card is worth keeping (They do run hot) or should it be put to pasture ? Please keep in mind that I play a few FPS and mod/ write script for games.

Thus far I've not seen anything that this card couldn't run but still i value your opinion.
 
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rcw001

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I've read only 2 reviews for the board. One stated the antennas were loose and one said they were having difficulty with them working after the second boot. To the first one, I know the antennas they use and there are 2 places to twist them one is at the base to the mobo itself and the other is right above it and you can tighten and loosen them from there and to them not working is probably the drivers probably needed to be updated which is easily done through msi live update. Higher speed memory only provides a marginal performance benefit to a small number of all the things on your computer and 1333 imo is a no go and 1600 is basically the baseline.

EDIT: I have an amd msi a88x itx ac board in my lan rig. Pretty similar board
 
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bradsctt

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Keep the 670, as you said you may want to play some games sometimes, and its still equal with the mid/high end 700 series cards. The card should be fine in a small case like a 250D, which has good airflow.
Most reviews i have seen of the case use hotter cards like GTX 780 and Titan, and the GPU will have direct ventilation through the left side GPU venting.

My main rig's GTX 760 is about equal to a GTX 670, and i would happily move it into the ITX build if i wasnt getting a GTX 750Ti for it.

RAM: Anything above 1600MHz will not show much improvement, except maybe in video editing, but even then the difference will not be great. AMD APUs are where you would see the biggest improvement, as the faster RAM would be used by the onboard graphics, and benefit from the extra bandwidth.

If you are able to get some RAM above 1600 for a similar price, then go for it. But its not worth paying a lot more for.



 
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bradsctt

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Rammy

Rammy

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Come to this one a bit late, and you seem to have made some progress, but here's my advice.

i7 - The "T" versions of CPUs are going to yeild significantly lower power usage, but the "S" versions aren't really going to make a dramatic difference unless you are comparing both a standard i7 and an "S" running at 100% load all of the time. In general use, power demands rise and fall and I'd generally stick with conventional i7s - you get much more for your money.

Memory - If you are using anything under a Z-series motherboard then you are limited to 1600 ram. Buying anything "faster" is pointless as it will just run at 1600 speed.

PSU- Just a quick note. PSUs don't draw their stated wattage from the wall, that's the (supposed) maximum power they can deliver to your PSU. A 1000W PSU and a 250W PSU running the same machine will pull more or less the same amount of power from the wall if you ignore transformer efficiency. That said, you are right a 750W PSU is poorly suited to an ITX build and Zalman isn't the most trustworthy PSU brand (they use a selection of OEMs and their product selection isn't fantastic). If it's a PSU that's had a few years use, then it might be a good idea to get a 500-550W PSU for your build.

250D - Here's the biggie. I don't think the 250D is a particularly good choice for you. It's very big for ITX (mainly in width) and is nearly cubic in form - really unsuited for travel. Even if you were sitting with it in a single room, I'd still think it was a poor choice because the 250D is very focused on a single thing - and it's not what you are trying to achieve. The 250D is a way to pack a H100i, a full sized optical drive, a decent sized ATX PSU, large graphics card and multiple storage drives into an ITX platform. As soon as you remove a single one of those elements, it becomes a very wide case with pretty mediocre airflow and very limited CPU cooler support which is also very picky about which motherboard you put in it (you really need a clear "top" edge).
Don't get me wrong, I like the 250D - if you want to build a 4690K+H100i type build on an ITX motherboard then it's almost undoubtedly the case of choice, but it seems like it's doing a really different thing to your objectives.

Which case is suitable for you might be down to whether or not you need an optical drive bay (or can live with a slim one or none at all). The Lian Li cases are certainly worth a look as they do a decent selection of ITX cases, all made from aluminium and some which have handles and reinforced corners which should make them reasonably travel ready. The price is that some will have slim ODD bays or require SFX PSUs - though if you are buying a new PSU anyway and your budget is reasonably flexible this isn't the end of the world.
There's the EVGA Hadron Air - though this is perhaps only an option if your GTX670 is a reference style model, and again it's got a slim ODD only and it's not got fantastic airflow by any means. Comes with it's own tiny PSU which does the job - I hear it can be a little on the noisy side though.
Silverstone do quite a few ITX cases, primarily in their SUGO range. There's also the RVZ01 which is vaguely games-console sized and quite well dimensioned for being packed into a suitcase. Downside is a lot of these use SFX PSUs which Silverstone will happily sell you at a fairly high price.
Then there's the mainstream ITX cases like the Coolermaster Elite 130, Fractal Design Node 304 and Antec ISK-600. All have various advantages and disadvantages, but they are similar(ish) dimensions/form factors and might be good options to look at.
In general, I'd go for something which has decent air cooler support rather than closed loop coolers. For a start, they are cheaper, they are generally quieter (especially at idle, at max speed everything sounds loud) and in my mind - better travellers. Keep in mind that any non-overclocked Intel CPU runs absolutely fine on the stock cooler - anything you add to this is an improvement.
 
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4DC_Resin_Smoker

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i7 - The 4790S came in today. Part of why i chose this over a stock i7 is the fact that I dont plan on overclocking. Besides load-wise the S is far better than the AMD FX-8150. Last time i checked, the AMD could draw in excess of 125w which could single-handedly warm my living room in the winter.

Memory - In that case I'll reuse the GSkill DDR3's (1600) I have from my old system. Only issue is that I will be stepping down from 16GB to 8GB as the new mother board only has two expansion slots. (4GB per stick)

PSU - I opt'd for the Corsair 550 figuring the extra money would be worth the added piece of mind.

Cases - I took a real long hard look at Lian Li and while i liked some of their offerings it came down to the atheistic appeal of the 250D that won me over in the end. Please keep in mind that the Case only has to be small enough to fit within the suit case or taken as carry-on. After that I still want the capabilities of a full blown ATX. Of the other cases you mentioned, the Coolermaster and the Antec lookk like very strong contenders and had i been aware of them I may of opted for either of those vice the 250D.

Beyond all of this I've received everything and will proceed with the build. Only issue i have thus far is that the cooling fan (212 Evo) which was recommended is OMG huge. I have serious doubts that this cooler will fit / function as intend and further more comes in at almost 2 LB's !!!! Needless to say I'll opt for the stock cooler that came with the CPU until something more size-appropriate can be found.

My current parts list is as follows:

i7-4790S
GSkill DDR3 (1600) 8GB
Corsair 250D
Corsair 550 PSU
ASUS Z971-PLUS
EVGA GTX 670 w/ 2 GB
Samsug SSD (2 x 500GB, 1 x 128GB)

Resin
 
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4DC_Resin_Smoker

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So far the system is performing like a champ! Boot-up is 15-20 seconds and the performance "feels" much better than the Athlon processor. Overall the system temps don't appear to get above 50c but I'm sure the video card runs much higher. I'm thinking that my next upgrade will be to replace the current card so long as a cost effective "upgrade" for the EVGA GTX 670 (2GB) can be found. Currently I've not seen much on the market performance wise that is significantly better than the 670 without spending $400 or more.

Resin
 
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