Bootable Windows 8 UEFI USB?

mrsweet1991

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Hi All,

After getting an Alienware M17X R4 I've been having a lot of trouble getting a bootable UEFI Windows 8 USB Drive. When I completely disable legacy boot options my USB or hard drive isn't detected, I've used Rufus and chose various UEFI format options including GPT partition map for UEFI Compatibility, but strange enough it still won't detect the USB drive. If I select the option to show Legacy boot options it shows again but I'd really like to find out why it won't detect the USB Drive so I could have a slightly faster BIOS boot time with the Windows Fast Boot.

Cheers All.




<------Fix-------->

Not sure why it never worked before maybe it was because I ran the bootsect /nt60 command but it's really simple.

Press Windows key and R

Type: diskpart

list disk (take note of your USB stick or hard drive you wish to make a bootable windows 7/8 install)
select disk x (replace x with the USB number discovered in the previouse step)
clean (wipes all data!)
create partition primary (creates a primary partition)
format fs=fat32 (formats partition to fat32 for UEFI compatibility)
Assign (assign partition a mounting point)
Active (make partition active so it's the first boot partition)


Copy all Windows 7/8/8.1 setup files to USB

Do not run the bootsect /nt60 x command it is not required and may very well be the reason it wasn't working for me before.
 
Solution


Ahem.... the link I provided...
Okay I am a bit lost in your post last statement as compared to the rest. UEFI replaces BIOS as a software enabling boot system that relies on the Boot OS drive for what BIOS used to do. As far as I am aware, you cannot in anyway make a 'bootable' Windows on a Ext USB, especially for UEFI as it is looking 'internally' for the Boot OS to fulfill the BIOS role. As far as UEFI is concerned "USB .... uhmm what do those letters mean?" because it hasn't the 'brains' or knowledge to know the difference of USB to Mouse to Parallel Port to anything else, it then (as programmed) seeks out the Boot OS with the information it gathered and let the Boot OS know what hardware codes it found for the Boot OS to them implement the Drivers to access and talk to the hardware at the application layer as compared to the much lower physical layer (think 7 layer model OSI modelling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model).

Now GPT partitioning is for the newer 4K drives, that is the drives are segmented into 4K bits to increase the 'storage size' on the same space the old 512k bits space was used on older drives. This is a manufacturing specification and how the 'drive' is built, internally or externally doesn't matter. So if had 520k of code to store, I don't "waste" 1M bits of two 512k segments (512k+512k makes 1024k) but instead use 130 "4K segments" and thus more 'space' on the same physical platter is still available for use.

Now your last statement really makes no sense as none of this will lead to faster BIOS boot time, and the Windows Fast Boot was meant for the very low end netbooks that were sold with Vista that didn't have enough RAM to begin with to 'boot' the OS (which the Windows Fast Boot is for booting the OS not the UEFI nor BIOS) when using a external USB RAM as a Boot RAM drive as your trying. SINCE Windows 7 and now into Windows 8, Windows Fast Boot denotes the method in programming and organization that Windows has built in to 'delay' some start up elements in the most 'optimal way' so you "get to the desktop" as quickly as possible. This does NOT mean stuff 'works' it just means you see the desktop and icons and can move the mouse around. But again this a OS (application) layer NOT physical layer implementation.

Your only way to 'drastically' improve, other then having literally NOTHING 'start up' when you turn on Windows, is to get a SSD. All these tricks are limited to the hardware (physical platter head reader speeds - mechanical drive limitations) and would only get enough of a 'fast' boot (the infamous 7 second boot) with SSD. The best you can do (clean totally nothing installed Windows) is around 12-15 sec of 'turning on' Windows on a 7200RPM drive, but you can't "do" anything realistically / leave your system completely vulnerable.
 

mrsweet1991

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Basically I want a bootable windows 8.1 install USB not an operating system running off a USB Drive I simply want to install Windows 8.1 off of a USB stick on to my 840 EVO. Secondly, UEFI is slightly faster than the BIOS there's many youtube video's and website showing this (very little time difference but it's there) secondly the Windows 8 fast boot (available only for UEFI hence why I would like my OS installed while UEFI is active) reference: http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/windows-and-office/how-windows-8-hybrid-shutdown-fast-boot-feature-works/

Finally I enjoy diagnosing and fixing computer problems, so considering I've hit a brick wall this is something that I'd like to conquer just so I understand for future re-installations. I mean I can definitely say it's something I'd be doing again sometime in the future. Sorry if my initial post wasn't very clear, but yeah I want a bootable Windows 8.1 install on a USB stick that is compatible with the UEFI.
 
Okay first part: your criteria word usage was the issue on finding the solution. Simple google of Windows 8 USB Install would provide all these links https://www.google.com/search?q=windows+8+usb+install&oq=Windows+8+USB+&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.7015j0j1&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF-8 like this one http://pcsupport.about.com/od/windows-8/a/install-windows-8-usb.htm on how to install Windows from a USB stick.

UEFI defined: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/what-uefi
It isn't just "faster' and I ignore all the 'Blog' websites or Youtube videos as they tend to be fake / just opinion not based on fact (unless it comes from a reputable and YOU CAN SEND YOUR LAWYER TO SUE THEM company like Ziff Davis, CNN, etc.).

 

mrsweet1991

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To start with, I said and I quote " Sorry if my initial post wasn't very clear, but yeah I want a bootable Windows 8.1 install on a USB stick that is compatible with the UEFI." So there's no need to say my word usage was the problem.

Secondly it's quite irritating how you said a "simple Google search" when I've searched numerous times, numerous threads, various software's and so forth I even said I've tried Rufus which preps the USB various ways even to the extent of GPT. If you have a solution to why my UEFI Doesn't detect my USB after trying every method through Rufus and the old "diskpart and bootsect /nt60" then please do provide a solution.
 


So my wife has a Amazon Fire, and like the VERY feature your cell phone and her Fire does, it goes into a 'hybrid' hibernation mode when you hit the 'power button', it doesn't actually 'turn off'. So when you tap the screen POOF it is all 'loaded' instantly, Windows 8 was designed to mimic this specifically for the 'tablets' it was to be sold on (screw us Desktop people is the unintended message they were really saying).

Note this is not COLD BOOT, this is (as noted in the article) putting your computer into a pseudo SLEEPING mode you're just instantly waking up from. If you power off your computer THIS will NOT speed up your 'boot load' as you previously indicated was the goal.

So I have in front of me a Lenovo Thinkpad 2, lovely tablet that runs FULL Windows 8 (not RT) that does this very feature you want. The new 'thin' laptops you see at CostCo, BestBuy, also have this same feature enabled and perform real well, advertising the 8 hours battery time or such (we are all used to laptops not even making it to the end of Lord of the Rings before needing a power plug!). These are based on two things you need to consider

1) Minimizing power consumption to the lowest level a User can 'deal with' (i.e. throttling your CPU to very slow, turning off Bluetooth, only using IG and turning 'off' the dedicated GPU, etc.)
2) Hibernation - hybrid mode.

F your Alienware M17X R4, this is NOT practical, as the hardware chews up battery life and can't be effectively throttled enough to mimic my Thinkpad 2, Kindle Fire, thin laptops being sold. So while you may try to implement this mode, most likely it won't be as 'effective' (as your article states "Milage MAY vary") as the OS / UEFI detects the power drainage and either turns things 'off' screwing up what you had 'open' or will just SHUT DOWN, saving your open apps in the normal Hibernation mode and you have a MUCH LONGER boot load time waiting for Windows to read everything in the Hiber.sys file stored with what windows were open, where icons were, etc.

Now I would warn you that I did a quick google on your model and Windows 8.1 https://www.google.com/search?num=50&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=alienware+m17x+r4+windows+8.1&oq=Alienware+M17X+R4+Windows+&gs_l=serp.3.1.0l2j0i22i30l8.23620.24808.0.27774.9.4.0.5.5.0.109.361.3j1.4.0....0...1c.1.51.serp..0.9.390.rOtSCKXPYFg

There is QUITE a few articles, especially issues the USB 3.0 has issues. First and foremost they all recommend doing the BIOS / UEFI update, then proceed on from there. I would recommend this site http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienware-17-m17x/749043-m17x-r4-windows-8-1-usb-3-0-a.html as they have a active community specific to your model (as they had one for us old R2 owners) that you can peruse through to find and resolve the issues you WILL encounter.

The best 'solution' seems to be those whom originally ordered the R4 with Windows 8, and use the recovery method to install Windows 8. Everyone else with the Windows 7 R4s have a bunch of hiccups and hoops to deal with.
 


Ahem.... the link I provided http://pcsupport.about.com/od/windows-8/a/install-windows-8-usb.htm from my simple google search if you follow the directions QUOTE:

Step 12: Boot from the USB device ...

Tip: If you have a UEFI based system and you still can't boot Windows 8 Setup from the flash drive, even after setting the USB device first in the boot order, see Tip #1 below for help.

.... The Windows 7 USB DVD Download Tool formats the USB drive as NTFS, a file system that many UEFI based computers will not boot from when on a USB drive.

To work around this issue, do this:

After Step 11 above, copy all of the files from the flash drive to a folder on your PC.
Format the flash drive manually, using the older FAT32 file system.
Copy all of the files from the folder you made in Step 1 back to the flash drive.
Repeat Step 12 above.
There is an alternative method for getting a Windows 8 or 8.1 ISO image properly onto a USB drive. See How to Burn an ISO File to USB for a walkthrough. I prefer the procedure I've outlined above, but if you have trouble with it, that general ISO-to-USB procedure should work as well.
 
Solution

mrsweet1991

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Already tried mate, Rufus not only does one method of FAT32 but two if I'm not mistaken and neither of them worked. I actually went through nearly a whole Google page of Windows 8 UEFI USB install. FAT32, NTFS, MBR, GPT you name it I've tried them. Clearly I must be doing something wrong but I can't think. So yeah taking into consideration I've tried FAT32 methods any other ideas?

Also Rufus counts as the ISO to USB method also I'd imagine?

I'll give Rufus another go, maybe I did do something wrong but I'm reasonable confident I tried all possible ways.
 

mrsweet1991

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I just noticed this post as well, thank you it's very detailed and I will look in to all of this. I'm sure this will help me especially the USB 3.0. I am using a USB 3.0 stick if that's what you was referring to :)

 


Personally I wouldn't use Rufus and instead just do as the article suggest. Using a additional method not outlined usually introduces another potential 'failure point' and I would just stick specifically with what was provided on how to do it with the tools linked too.
 


Okay let me hit you with a thought for a moment. These steps (bootable USB, ISO, etc.) would work on ANY PC this stick is plugged into right? The problem is in Step 12 as you 'see it', and that all the other steps are fully rights (your use of Rufus to make it happen or not).

Okay then take that stick 'as is' and plug it into another computer, try to change the BIOS to boot from it, and does it work on another computer? If it does then the issue is the R4 and potentially BIOS / other issue (I/O chips borked?). IF NOT, then you narrowed it down to this STICK or your steps. Hence I would try (as said) the step by step way outlined (not using Rufus or any other 'trick') and see if you can make that STICK work in ANY PC? If not then try a different stick and see what happens. If two sticks fails on two different systems then it absolutely HOW your doing things that should be where the problem lays.
 

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