i7-4790K Asus Hero VII Manual Overclock / 5-Way Optimization Help

ahaas5 · Aug 16, 2014

My system-
i7-4790K
Hero 7
16G 2400 Vengeance
Samsung 840 Pro 512G
Noctua NH-12S and Noctua case fans
EVGA 1000 p2 PSU
No GPU yet - waiting for 800 series (if it ever comes out)
All drivers/updates installed

My background-
First computer build, been researching for 1.5 years or so and something I always wanted to do. I consider myself pretty competent, but don't have hands on experience with overclocking yet. Just the many videos/articles/forums I've tried to read.

I wasn't going to use the 5-way optimization software in the AI suite at all, but then it looked so pretty sitting there and I pushed the button. The results...

4.4ghz @ 1.21v and 49-53c using a couple rounds of Cinebench
4.6ghz @ 1.35v and 60-65c using Cinebench as well

My questions (sorry if this gets long or there a couple dumb ones in here...)

The 1.35v seems pretty high to me, is this ok? The temps seem to be fine, Noctua is great

I want to manually overclock and do it right. How do I "turn off 5-way optimization? Do I just reset defaults in the UEFI and boot? And that always overrides the software?

Do I even need to mess with overclocking manual if I'm getting these numbers? Again, I'm worried about that high voltage? But it just seems like I have a lot of temp room?

What benchmarks should I be running? I have no interested in extreme synthetic scores, just a system that's stable with the games I will be using.

Thanks in advance,
Adam

volcanoscout · Aug 16, 2014

In no particular order:

1.35V is too high. Hit the TPU tab and select manual for the OC Voltage and dial it back. Try setting it at 1.2V, then download and run AIDA64 system compatibility test (in the Tools tab drop-down menu) for 10-15 minutes. If it doesn't crash bump the voltage down until it does, then set it back to the last stable voltage. Once it seems happy with the settings, let the test run for an hour or two to verify. With a similar build, mine is currently running 4.6GHz at 1.176V and can do 4.8GHz at 1.24V. Yours may vary, but if you can't hit your target clock at 1.3V or less, you should dial it back.

I've read conflicting reports about Prime95 with Haswell chips, but I just use AIDA64 now. It's still synthetic but the data feedback (temps, Vs, clocks, etc) have always been accurate (checked against several other monitoring programs), and when it tells me an OC is stable, I haven't had it crash later. Can't say the same for Prime. AIDA64's default stability test has the top four blocks checked (Stress CPU, Stress FPU, Stress Cache, Stress system memory). If you select just Stress FPU, that's the equivalent to Prime's Small FFTs test.

I think you can disable 5-Way in the BIOS - I'll have to check.

Okay, I may get flamed for this, but here goes:
I've manually OCed three Haswell chips on three different ROG boards (4670k, 4770K, 4790K, Hero VI and VII, Gene) and I've used the auto-OC with AI Suite (4-Way and 5-Way). My conclusion (not an expert opinion by any definition) is that the auto-OC does a pretty decent job, with the exception of the voltage. At the upper end (4.8GHz on the 4790K, for example) the auto-OCs weren't stable, but could be made stable with a few tweaks. What I've taken to doing is let the software OC to the target clock, then manually adjust the voltage, CPU cache, whatever seems appropriate. Or letting the software take it to 4.6, then manually (in the software, not bios) taking it up to 4.8. Saves a lot of time that way and the results have been good. I can match the results just using BIOS settings, but it takes a lot longer, involves a lot more reboots, and any improvements over the auto+tweaks are small enough as to not be worth the effort unless I'm just entertaining myself.

ahaas5 · Aug 17, 2014

Thank you - that was very helpful. I've heard that the auto overclocking tends to run the voltage too high, but I'm the same way as you - I have no interest in wasting my time trying to get an extra 100hz. If I can do like you say and bump the voltage down while keeping the rest of the settings and it runs AIDA64, I'm great with that. I guess I don't know enough about the cache voltage to mess with it, hopefully I don't need to?

Before I run AIDA, do I have to have both Core and Cache voltage set to manual? So it doesn't send more volts?

And then when I'm done running synthetics, set both back to adaptive?

Thanks for the help...

volcanoscout · Aug 17, 2014

I would leave your core voltage on manual and set to the lowest voltage you can stabilize the OC at. You can reset it to adaptive - when I've done that, it always seems to run higher than I want it to, but as far as I can tell it still keeps it below 1.3V. Your call.

I haven't had any issues with the cache voltage so I've left it on adaptive. It kind of depends on what your cache multiplier is set to - if it's the same as your clock multiplier, you'll want to watch the voltages to see what they do during testing. If it's lower than your clock multiplier, than I don't think you'll have an issue with adaptive.

You'll want to set your manual CPU voltage prior to testing.

tomkis90 · Aug 17, 2014

volcanoscout :

If my CPU crashes at 1.3V at 4.5ghz can that be a motherboard issue?
Should I update the bios?
4790k on a Msi z97 gaming 3.

EDIT: Sometimes it runs just fine at 1.2v.

ctguy1955 · Aug 17, 2014

I am glad I found this thread. I really dont know much when it comes to the ins and outs of doing any minor tweaking in
bios. Adaptive mode and so many other things allude me and Ive searched many places on the net for guides and have
found a few that were ok, but I would really like to see what my new 4790K can do, and how best to keep it safe.

I am at 4.746 right now at 1.29v and I wonder how much of a difference it would even make in playing a game like BF4
to bother trying to hit 5.0, or should I just be happy with what I have now ??? The more you go up, the more heat, and
the lifespan on the cpu gets shortened.

I just found a new program from Intel and I like it......... curious if your at all familiar with it ?

volcanoscout · Aug 17, 2014

ctguy1955 :

I haven't used it. I read this partial article and a few others and didn't see any real benefits: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/z77-express-ivy-bridge-benchmark,3254-24.html

In-game performance comparisons can be a challenge when trying to eliminate variables. I use Unigine Heaven and 3DMark Firestrike to check if there's any performance difference between one setting and another, while keeping everything else (GPU settings, etc) identical. The difference on Firestrike between 4.6GHz and 4.8GHz is significant - don't know what the difference between 4.746 and 4.8 would be. I can try it on mine and let you know, if you're interested.

volcanoscout · Aug 17, 2014

tomkis90 :

volcanoscout :

If my CPU crashes at 1.3V at 4.5ghz can that be a motherboard issue?
Should I update the bios?
4790k on a Msi z97 gaming 3.

EDIT: Sometimes it runs just fine at 1.2v.

Try it with adaptive on, but the base voltage set at 1.2V or lower and see how it does. With the offset, actual voltage is going to fluctuate, but shouldn't be by much.

ahaas5 · Aug 17, 2014

Volcanoscout- I appreciate the help quite a bit. I followed your instructions about letting the software get everything to 4.6Ghz and then scaling back the voltage manually in the TPU tab and testing it for 20min with AIDA64. I've arrived at 4.6Ghz @ 1.185v and stressed 3+ hours on AIDA 64.

My questions are these...
- How good are those numbers/temps?
- Will running at that voltage in manual and not adaptive setting have any long term effects? I don't care about the higher energy bill, I just want to make sure the chip will last 4-5 years.
- Should I overclock it more if those numbers are really good? Keep in mind, I not interested in really pushing the system, but I do want better performance if its not going to sacrifice the CPU...
- These manual settings are saved as a profile under AI suite, every time I reboot, it goes back to adaptive and higher voltages and I need to reload the profile. How do I change that? Do I need to just change the voltage in the UEFI to manual and set to 1.185 or is there anything else to do?

Thanks much for the help guys,
Adam

volcanoscout · Aug 17, 2014

ahaas5 :

I'm glad you found the info useful!

-I would say those numbers look very good. It's possible you could improve on the voltages and/or the temps, but without knowing all the details of your settings and system I couldn't say for sure.

-It's possible to seriously degrade the useful lifespan of your chip by overclocking - if you overdo it. If you keep the temps and voltages within the specs it's designed to run within, however, any degradation is going to be considered on a scale of years. At the bottom of this post I've linked a good article on transistor aging. ANY use of a CPU is going to result in deterioration, but not maximizing it's performance within it's design specs is like "...never taking your Ferrari out of the slow lane because you're concerned that its engine might throw a rod 10 years down the road."

If you were to disable or uninstall AI Suite, and monitor your voltages with all stock settings, I think you might find that your system will normally apply MORE voltage to the CPU from 4.0-4.4 Turbo than your are with your current manual setting with an OC.

- I haven't figured out all the ins and outs of AI Suite yet. I've had very good experience with it, but I know lots of people have had issues. I think some of the coding is buggy. Mine will maintain the voltage, but won't maintain the power mode (auto, performance, etc) through a re-boot. If you set the voltage in BIOS without disabling 4- or 5-Way Optimization, I think AI Suite will just override the BIOS setting. I'll do some more experimenting and let you know if I find an answer to that. In the meantime, I think you have to go all BIOS or all software. If someone else knows a solution to that, hopefully they'll chime in.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/processors/transistor-/0

volcanoscout · Aug 17, 2014

Something else - looking at your AIDA read-out, I'm assuming that your CPU fan is on automatic (controlled by mobo/software setting), but your case fans may be on a case fan controller?

ahaas5 · Aug 17, 2014

I have 4x Corsair AF 140's that are attached to the chassis headers on the mobo and controlled by the software. Does something not look right?

volcanoscout · Aug 17, 2014

ahaas5 :

No, just curious. I noticed that your CPU fan was maxing but your case fans were only going about 50%. I max all my fans to maintain consistency between tests. If you decide to find out what your absolute peak clock is with your current setup, you'll want to top-out your fans so you get maximum efficiency from your CPU cooler.

There are many ways to skin this cat. If you want max performance regardless of noise, you can max all your cooling elements before you start a benchmark. I max the fans, then let the CPU idle for 10 min or so. That way my starting temp is as low as practicable. Alternatively, you can set the fans to the max noise level you find acceptable, then see how high you can clock without raising the fan RPMs or exceeding your max target temp. Or you can...etc, etc.

ctguy1955 · Aug 17, 2014

volcanoscout :

I did not mean so much the difference between 4.7 or 4.8, but if me running stable now at 4.7 and playing
a game, vs if my setup could do 5.0............ its not most likely going to make much difference in how
the game plays but it will heat up my pc more and make the longevity of my cpu less ????? I should just
be happy with what I have now, or would it be better for longevity to lower my setup to low volts like 1.19 and
45 and keep things nicer and will that affect the game play ???? I want to find out what the middle ground
is to have some sort of advantage while playing, but keep my pc parts ok. Im a noob and just dont know
if the game is even affected by speed of pc that much ???? Thank You !!!

volcanoscout · Aug 17, 2014

If you scroll up the thread a little, I addressed the deterioration/reduced lifespan question in response to @ahaas5. As far as the effect on gaming, I tried to address that in my reply to your last post but I'll try to explain myself better. Trying to judge how an overclock affects game-play can be challenging, since there are so many variables. Different games have different levels of CPU-dependency, as do scenes within the games. There are obviously ways to do it, as evidenced by gaming benchmarks, but you'd need somebody else to explain how to do it. As a proxy, you can use the graphics benchmarks like Heaven, Firestrike, etc. They give you a way to effortlessly replicate a set of graphics scenes to test your system. If you run a test once at 4.0GHz, and then again at 4.5GHz, with the clock speed being the only system change, if there's a score differential you can attribute it to your clock speed change.

The value of the differential is completely subjective. If you're happy with your game-play and/or benchmark scores at 4.0GHz, and an increased score or game quality at 4.5GHz doesn't make you any happier, then it may not make any sense to overclock. But if that same overclock doesn't present a hazard to your system, then aside from the time it takes to make the adjustments, the improvement is basically cost free, so why not? If the value of your time exceeds the gained benefits, then again it may not make sense for you.

I hope that answered your question better. If not, I'd recommend starting a new thread - include your build specifics, OC settings, current benchmarks, and specific games that you play, and ask what other members think about the potential degree of improvement you could gain by increasing your OC. I'm sure that folks that are gurus on those specific games will be able to give you the advantage of their experience.

ctguy1955 · Aug 18, 2014

volcanoscout :

Thank You, I do have a better understanding now. I appreciate you taking he time to answer me in a way that
I understood more easily. I will go on the forums for the BF4 game and ask there, more about the game
physics and what are the inner makings of the game as far as OC'ing is concerned.

It was fun building the computer and OC'ing it, but I cant help wonder about the settings on my pc and
what is best for me. I have a lot of reading to do, and I appreciate people like you that know so much.

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2611207 I just downloaded FireStrike and tried it out. It said I did ok.

Thank You for your advice and help.

volcanoscout · Aug 18, 2014

Yep, looks pretty good to me. I'm no BF4 aficionado, but if you need any help with system or CPU tweaks, feel free to PM.

ctguy1955 · Aug 18, 2014

volcanoscout :

Last night in bed, using my iphone, I did some searches on Overclocking and BF4
I found out that the program does indeed LIKE when you OC your cpu and your gpu
and that even going from 4.2 to 4.7 can make a 5 fps difference in the game.

There was actually a lot of info and Im very happy now to know that it makes a difference !!!

http://www.3dmark.com/sd/2302258

I beat a TITAN !!!!!

volcanoscout · Aug 18, 2014

That's awesome! Next thing you know, you'll be using liquid nitrogen and running at 6GHz

ctguy1955 · Aug 21, 2014

volcanoscout :

When the new X99 boards from asus come out and all the other wonderful parts, I may sell my sytem and upgrade, but I would wait until the new 880 cards come out next March. Im sure a new build would be 3K or more.

volcanoscout · Aug 21, 2014

That's possible. If they price the stuff too high, though, they'll end up losing money through loss of sales volume.

xtianp · Nov 15, 2014

I just got an Asus X99 Deluxe. When trying to run 5 way optimization the button is grayed out. Would anyone know why?

Dirtymind · Dec 28, 2014

Install Asus MEI Driver first, to fully utilize the Aisuite3. Make sure to download all drivers related to it, after MEI driver install install Aisuite3; then it should work.

i7-4790K Asus Hero VII Manual Overclock / 5-Way Optimization Help

Reputable

Dignified

Reputable

Dignified

Reputable

Distinguished

Dignified

Dignified

Reputable

Dignified

Dignified

Reputable

Dignified

Distinguished

Dignified

Distinguished

Dignified

Distinguished

Dignified

Distinguished

Dignified

Reputable

Reputable

Share this page