How to Get Wifi 180+ feet into Aluminum Covered Mechanic Shop?

Anonymiter · Aug 17, 2014

My neighbor needs an internet connection at his auto repair shop, which is just across the street from his house. My estimates from Google maps says that the office is about 180 feet from his front window. The office is in the back of the building behind about 30 feet of aluminum sheet roofs.

I looked into it a bit and it seemed like a 5GHz signal would be his best option, and had him buy these two things to make that work.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833389034
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833166103
Now I'm realizing that was probably a mistake. From the way it's advertised, I understood that AC routers and 5GHz bands had "better" range. I now know that the opposite is true though when simply talking about distance.

For now I have a WRT45G v8 running dd-wrt in another part of the shop that is repeating my Wifi over to the office. That only works though because my house is a little closer and coming from a different direction. The closest interior wall from his house is still about 160 feet with 10-15 feet of aluminum.

Anyways, what would be my best move going forward to get this working? Should I send either of the things he already bought back? Can I put an exterior antenna with an extension on the WRT54G?

byza · Aug 17, 2014

Well the dual band routers work on both frequencies so it's probably not to much of an issue. Depending on where his router is located inside his house he could use a weatherproof extender (Engenius is one brand that make them) which would be closer to his factory. Also having an access point on the outside of the shed connected to an ethernet cable might also help. The AP on the outside of the shed could be PoE (power over ethernet).

Anonymiter · Aug 17, 2014

There really isn't a place to put it outside his house so at best it would just server to bypass a single exterior wall/glass window. The PoE AP might be something to look into. Would I be able to power the AP from the spare WRT54G v8 that I have or would I need an injector?

My trouble, still, is getting the signal across the street and past a few feet of aluminum sheeting. Right now it barely get to the aluminum and then dies off immediately. I need the signal to be decent and possibly even penetrate to some degree.

byza · Aug 17, 2014

The Engenius' come with proprietary injectors so you won't need to buy one. Look at their business products, not the residential products. I don't know the setup so I can't really say for sure, but you might want to go with using a bridge or looking into running an ethernet cable (it's pretty easy to make your own in the length required) from a wifi adaptor (the WRT54G should be able to do it, you'd need to read the manual) at the front of the building where he can pick up signal through to his office. There are a few ways to set it up, it depends on what his goal is and how much money he's willing to spend on it.

The extender might be enough to get across the street, there are too many factors to say for sure (interfering signals, location of devices, obstructions), but i'd say he'd need an adaptor at the front of the building to pick it up. I'm also not sure how flakey the connection would be. Engenius have devices are made for this exact purpose, but it's going to cost more. I'm from Aus so I don't know what the trial/return policy is for newegg, but maybe try setting it up with the extender and see how it performs then decide what to do from there. Even talking to a professional familiar with the situation might help. I just know most of this from research, experience, people on this forum and setting up networks with extenders and whatnot at my work and house, i'm certainly not an expert and there are probably products and methods I haven't even thought about.

Anonymiter · Aug 18, 2014

What about a couple of these and connect them to some cheap wireless routers?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008Z4DNFC/

It almost seems overkill, but I think thats what I need to go for.

bill001g · Aug 18, 2014

Those will work but once you decide to put thing outside and run cables etc it is cheaper to just use outdoor bridges that have the antenna and the electronics all in one.
Something like engenius enh202 on both ends or maybe ubuiquti airgrid. When you look at the cost of the antenna,cable,router you are better off just buying a devices already designed to do what you want. It tends to be easier to run a ethernet cable outside than antenna cable. The antenna cable that has low loss tends to be expensive and harder to run than a ethernet cable.

Anonymiter · Aug 19, 2014

Yeah you're not wrong about that. I assume I need two, one for the source and one for the destination.

As I understand it, the setup would be as follows:

■ Home modem/router/wifi box is connected in back room.
■ Ethernet cable runs to front, exterior of home to provide signal AND power to the enh202.
■ Second enh202 is mounted across street on aluminum pole.
■ Ethernet cable runs from second enh202 to injector.
■ Injector then feeds into the spare WRT54G v8 and provides wifi to shop.

That all being true, I'll need about 200+ feet of ethernet cable, just to be on the generous side, and the two bridges. That should come out to about $120-150?

One question though, is it possible to set up the first bridge to simply repeat the signal from the modem/wifi box? That would save me a lot of trouble running the cable around the house or through the attic.

Edit: Just a bit more information, they're running DSL at the moment so their internet speeds are pretty low to begin with. Furthermore, they won't be doing much more than uploading photos every few days at the most. The rest will just be basic web browsing. This is to say, I don't need something FAST, just something stable and reliable. that can travel 150-200 feet for as cheap as possible.

bill001g · Aug 19, 2014

Those particular device can not act as a repeater. They do make others that have 2 radios one to talk to the main router and a second to talk to end clients. The second bridge can act as client to the first. I forget the exact model that does that but it is actually meant to be used in the reverse of what you are asking for. Since you are going to have to run a cable of some sort no matter what just to get power the question will be once you solve the issue of getting from a power outlet to outside how much harder is it to just run it all the way to the main router.

These device work very well. You can easily get 100m or more out of them even at distances much more than you are going. You can look they are slightly cheaper models like ENS200 but I tend to type enh202 because those I have actually used. There may be cheaper brands but I have only used engenius or ubiquiti ....other than the extremely expensive commercial aviaya stuff they put in where I work.

byza · Aug 19, 2014

To save you having to run an ethernet cable through the house you could use a wireless adaptor/router/extender at the front of the house to connect the first bridge to the home wifi. The difference between the ENH202 and ENH200 is the bandwidth, not distance. Given that they are on DSL, their internet bandwidth is likely under 20Mbps so going for the cheaper ENH200 with 150Mbps will be fine. If they were transferring large amounts of data between their home PC and work PC that is when the ENH202 would have an advantage.

I believe that all devices in the ENH range can operate as bridges or access points, with the main difference being that the ENHxxx have internal antenna and are primarily a bridge, while the ENHxxxEXT have external antenna and are primarily an AP. However, i'm not sure that any of them can perform both functions at once. In order to do both functions at once it would require two radios, so it would theoretically be possible on the dual band ENH's, but i'm not sure if it is enabled.

Anonymiter · Aug 20, 2014

It looks like the biggest difference is that the ENH200 is only 500mW and the ENH202 is 800mW.
http://pt.engeniustech.com/resources/Outdoor_Wi-Fi_Product_Matrix_R10_102612_web.pdf

Do you think I need the extra 300mW if I'm just doing 150+ feet? Aren't these things designed for alike 1,000 bridges? We do have about 20 other 2.4GHz wifi signals in the area, but I honestly have no context for whether or not that would be a lot. I don't mind recommending overkill, but I'm just not sure about spending an extra $50 for something that not needed. And, yes, the 300Mbps vs the 150Mbps is rather irrelevant for this case.

So anyways, I've done a quick n dirty diagrammed of what the final setup would look like. Let me know if I'm confused on something. I think this is how it should work though.

Considering that to be right, I'm going to need at least 150+ feet of Ethernet. I assume a 250' box of CAT6 double jacket should be the right choice?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008EYFJIW/

So with that and the two ENH200 bridges, the total comes out to around $180 from Amazon with promotional prices. This is still cheaper than a year's service at $20 a month so I call it a win. The real question now, though.... can somehow do it even cheaper than this? ;D

bill001g · Aug 20, 2014

Make sure you go high enough big trucks don't get you

The power mostly is used for the distance. You will likely have no issues at all at 150ft. The beam width is very narrow so any other radios will not matter a lot these do a good job of blocking it.

Outdoor cable is nice if you can afford it. The risks are the sun and soil if you bury it. Water does not seem to hurt a lot since all ethernet cable is plastic coated. My brother has normal cable stapled to the edge of his fence running a PoE camera for years and it has no issues...maybe lucky. I tend to use drip irrigation tubing and run normal cable though it when I bury it. Its all a cost thing.

The main issue I have with the cable you linked is that it is CCA which is copper clad aluminum. They are very much cheating calling it cat6 since that normally implies they are tia certified cable. No CCA cable meet the TIA/EIA rules and has issue meeting the distance requirements. It also has issue when you run PoE on it.

I would look for solid copper cat5e cable if you want the best value for your money. It will be your call if outdoor cable is the best or if you can protect the cable another way.

.....a edit you could use Ubiquiti NanoStation loco M2. I have not used this particular one but I have used other ubiquiti stuff. This one is just a bit cheaper than the engenius. I suspect it has less power output but that may not matter in your case

Anonymiter · Aug 20, 2014

I was just using that particular CAT6 as reference, but good to know. Whatever mounting and cabling solution we come up with, its going to be up to him as to how it gets done. If he decides to bury it, run it along the wall, or drill into the attic its all fine by me. He just needs to get the cable from point A to B.

That said, I think I will take your advice and look for at least solid copper CAT5e. As for it being weather proof shielded, I'd say that will come down to finding it at the right price.

Speaking of which, whats the take on these?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005V0BJ1S/
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007QMDPZM/
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FX6NH42/

Also, what do you think about another model, like the EOC1650? It seems a lot less powerful but the reviews say that people are getting at least 200 feet out of them. Together they'd be $30 cheaper, which could make the difference.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001UHLMWC/

If not, what about the ENH200EXT?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005OEFW5K/

bill001g · Aug 20, 2014

The gel filed stuff is the best you are going to find generally you can submerge that in water but it tends to be very expensive.

The EOC one I suspect is cheaper because it is a older model that only run 802.11g. ENH200EXT you would need a antenna since it does not include one.

byza · Aug 20, 2014

As bill001 said, the EOC is cheaper as it only works on 'g' (54Mbps) but that should be fine for their needs. It is going to be less powerful, but it doesn't need to go too far. The real problem I see with it is that it's EOL, so it might be worth $30 to get a product with ongoing support.

With the cable don't forget you need a crimping tool and some RJ45 connectors.

Anonymiter · Aug 20, 2014

Well that makes the extra $30 worth it imo.

That was another question, though, with the gel filled cable do I need a special crimper or connectors? I have just a cheap crimper and connectors from the hardware store.

byza · Aug 21, 2014

I'm pretty sure you just use the standard crimper and connectors. Maybe put some boots on the connectors.

bill001g · Aug 21, 2014

When it comes to the ends the gel just makes it a mess. You normally clean the gel off the wire so you can be sure it seated fully. The gel really is only useful for the part of the cable that you feel would be submerged or subject to long term water contact. Most outdoor equipment has rubber gaskets you run the cable though that are used to protect the equipment jacks and the ends that plug into them. The jacks themselves are pretty much the standard jacks that take the standard connectors. I doubt many of the radio units are actually water proof enough you could submerge them for very long.

Tempest8008 · Jan 13, 2015

@Anonymiter

I've got a very similar situation to what you were facing.
I was wondering what the final result of your project was?

What worked for you, what didn't, and whether you got your WiFi where you wanted to get it to?

How to Get Wifi 180+ feet into Aluminum Covered Mechanic Shop?

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