Finding Performance Choke Point

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TheBabySeal

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Aug 22, 2014
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Hello!

I am trying to upgrade my rig in preparation for the Fall '14 game releases (AC Unity, FarCry 4, etc) and am having trouble identifying what parts are holding back my performance. It seems like I should be getting more out of what I have, which is:

HIS IceQ X Turbo Radeon HD 6950 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161372
MSI 870A-G54 AM3 AMD 870
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130275
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T
http://www.amazon.com/AMD-Phenom-Processor-Edition-HDT90ZFBGRBOX/dp/B003FVI2KQ (sorry for lack of Newegg link, no longer listed)
6 Gbs of RAM, various sources and one dead stick I haven't replaced yet.

I've been testing AC Black Flag under various settings and watching GPU usage and heat, and at max settings it shows 80% usage at av. 60C, but my frame rate is miserable. Smooth, if you enjoy constant Matrix-esque slow motion. Total War: Rome 2 performs poorly in general. Watch Dogs didn't struggle very much at highest, but the frame rate was still poor. The only major factor I've noticed across the board is AA settings seems to be the major performance affector. If it's off, everything else can be maxed. Looking at raw stats (and not really knowing much more about them than the summaries and articles on this site) I can't see what's holding me back. Sure, all those parts are a bit old, but it doesn't seem like their capabilities are that far behind.
Any advice in general or obvious part that you would replace immediately would be fantastic.
Thanks
 
Solution
coozie7
Which core temperature/usage, CPU or GPU?
The best test to check where the restriction lays is this:
Run a sequence of a graphically demanding game at high settings and note the frame rate then rerun at low settings, a large change in frame rate points to a GPU limitation. Run the test sequence again, still at low settings but this time lower the res to about 1280x1024, then run the sequence again at the lowest res the game supports, a small increase in framerate points to a CPU limitation.
I suspect your tests will show the HD6950 as being the main restriction.
If the 6950 IS the main restriction the R9 280 or Nvidia GTX760 aren't too expensive and can handle current games at high, or even max settings on a single 1080 display...
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BigBadBeef

BigBadBeef

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May 30, 2014
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Let me tell you something on what I ran AC4 and total war: Rome 2 when I still had my old rig:
AMD Phenom (1) 9950 black edition
4GB DDR2 800MHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 6570 1GB DDR3 (OC 20% CPU 10% memory)

And you still think YOU had poor performance in those games? :D


You see, your current PC build is balanced, there is little you can do to improve it. When the time comes, replace everything, in the meantime endure those better than most people's framerates. 720p would also help at minimum settings.
 
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sincreator

sincreator

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May 27, 2009
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List your full specs and make sure to include your power supply and CPU cooler. The Phenom II x6 chips are still very good CPUs. I have one myself and run crossfire 7950+7970 and only get CPU limited in a few games that I play. I am overclocked to 4.0ghz as well, and I have my hyper transport and North Bridge overclocked a little bit. Once overclocked to the 3.9-4.2ghz range you can run a faster video card then your current one easily. That would be my recommendation, if you need to save money.

If money isn't an issue the only upgrade that makes sense is a switch to Intel i5/i7 and then get a faster video card as well. The FX chips are faster than the PHII X6 chips, but not by very much. It would pretty much take a 4.5ghz FX to beat a 4.0ghz PH II x6 in most games, so I don't see a point in going that route for an upgrade unless someone has a real tight budget and has no other choice.
 
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coozie7

coozie7

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Jun 2, 2007
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Broadly agree, the system is quite well balanced.
And yes, the HD6950 doesn't like AA, it never did.
If it's a early generation card you could try flashing its BIOS and unlocking the 'extra' shaders, how to is here: http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/vidcard/159 note, only the very early released cards would unlock, later ones had their shaders laser disabled. if you decide to try, follow the instructions carefully, particularly the bits about switching BIOS and backing up the original before flashing.
If it doesn't work, no harm done, if it does you'll get a nice little boost. Final point, don't try for the full 6970 flash, the 6950 and 6970 used different memory and plenty of people who did the full flash fried their cards as a result.
The other option is to install a good cooler and overclock the CPU, games like Rome Total War demand massive amounts of CPU power, even top line i7s can be pushed by such games.
 
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BigBadBeef

BigBadBeef

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May 30, 2014
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I have to admit, nVidia cards have always been better at mitigating performance costs of AA than AMD is. But on the other hand, that doesn't mean that Radeons aren't worth buying anyway.

So yeah, save money for a new pc.
 
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T

TheBabySeal

Reputable
Aug 22, 2014
3
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4,510
Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback. I'm running a 850w PSU and a stock CPU cooler (gasp). I've considered a different cooler, but this is all crammed into a mid tower case and some of the nicer coolers I've helped other build might not fit in there. That being said, Speedfan is saying my core temp is around 65-70C, and rarely breaks 50% usage on other monitors. Hell, it rarely breaks 50%.
That's what seems strange to me. Nothing seems pushed to the limit anywhere, yet performance trails off. Perhaps I'm spoiled, from the sound of it.
I will look into that BIOS flash and try some gentle CPU overclocking as well.

If there was one part you would change, what would it be?
And, if I were to buy a 3gb card, which I'm considering, would you change the motherboard too? It feels like the oldest, weakest part to me.

Again, thanks for all the feedback, I'm learning in leaps and bounds.
 
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coozie7

coozie7

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Jun 2, 2007
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Which core temperature/usage, CPU or GPU?
The best test to check where the restriction lays is this:
Run a sequence of a graphically demanding game at high settings and note the frame rate then rerun at low settings, a large change in frame rate points to a GPU limitation. Run the test sequence again, still at low settings but this time lower the res to about 1280x1024, then run the sequence again at the lowest res the game supports, a small increase in framerate points to a CPU limitation.
I suspect your tests will show the HD6950 as being the main restriction.
If the 6950 IS the main restriction the R9 280 or Nvidia GTX760 aren't too expensive and can handle current games at high, or even max settings on a single 1080 display.

Swapping motherboards will gain almost nothing. Even if it allows your system to move to PCI-E 3.0, only a high end quad SLI or Crossfire setup will get close to pushing PCI-E 3.0 and TBH only the very fastest cards out there would suffer a noticeable performance penalty even with the olde 1.0 or 1.1 PCI-E revisions.
 
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Solution
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TheBabySeal

Reputable
Aug 22, 2014
3
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4,510
Well, I have done that particular test already, a few times. While a resolution drop helps a tad, the settings that seem to really kill frames are related to AA or other ambient settings, like volumetric effects. I can see a distinct percentage uptick in GPU activity as those settings increase. Texture quality doesn't seem to matter at all.
Luckily for me I was already looking at this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121867
The rest of ya'lls suggestions line up with my line of reasoning as well, just wanted to hear it from more seasoned minds.
Thanks for your prompt and thorough responses, folks, I think I have what I need.
 
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