Upgrade Radeon 6870 without PSU upgrade (?)

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drapacioli

drapacioli

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Hi, so I have an XPS 8300 that I'd like to upgrade the video card on, but I've been told by Dell's XPS technicians that the power supplies are not standard and can only be replaced with the same model, so I cannot upgrade the power supply. It is a 460w Dell-branded supply, here's the sticker on the side with the specs:

14825932099_b5f93f6733_z.jpg


Here's the recommended form:

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: within 30 days

BUDGET RANGE: $200-$250 before rebates

USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Gaming (I want to be able to play anything for the next 3-4 years without having to worry about upgrading again), and enough power to run 2-3 monitors easily while still allowing good performance in other applications and games, photoshop (CS6), After Effects, SolidWorks (barely used, but worth mentioning)

CURRENT GPU AND POWER SUPPLY: Radeon 6870 1GB, 460W Dell power supply

OTHER RELEVANT SYSTEM SPECS: Dell XPS 8300, Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit, Intel Core i7 2600, 8GB RAM (possibly upgrading to 16 before the end of the year too), 128GB SDD, Boot drive, 2TB WD Black data drive, up to 4 standard powered USB devices at once (the rest go on their own power or a powered hub). Monitors: 2 1080p, 1 1440x900, only one is HDMI-capable so I would need 2 DVI ports or an adapter.

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: Amazon.com ONLY, I have a $75 gift card that is being factored into the budget.

PARTS PREFERENCES: No preference.

OVERCLOCKING: Doubtful as I don't want to risk shortening the life of the card.

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 2x 1080p, 1x 1440x900 (1080p screen used for gaming, on some games I use both or all three, such as flight simulator games.

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: Need good cooling on the card as the case doesn't have as many fans as I would like, and the components inside already run a bit on the warm side.

My big concern is finding a card that has better performance but not too much extra power. For the record, if I run a full GPU and full CPU load (using furmark and prime95), the computer's power draw as measured by my UPS (not accurate I know, but an estimate), shows that the computer just barely uses 350w when both of those are running. When under a normal use scenario, it's closer to 200-250w. Based on that, and accounting for the 20w the monitor that's plugged in as well, it would seem the power supply has some headroom for a GPU increase, but I would personally be hesitant to raise it more than 50-60w. Is that a safe assumption, and if so what card would be in that power/price range? Hardly any GPUs are rated for "450w" power supplies, almost all of them state 500 is minimum.
 
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drapacioli

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That would be a downgrade, not an upgrade. The 6870 is a faster card in that case.
 
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avenseth12

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FIrst off, that PSU is garabage, that is why Dell uses them, they are cheap, cheap, cheap. I would not trust that power supply to power anything for any period of time. You can purchase a nice 500 to 600 watt PSU that will run your system without issues or the chance to fail too early.

Like 1 of these:

EVGA 600 B 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified 600W $59
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438014
The psu puts out 49 amps on the 12v rail which is more than you need. It also comes with a 3 year warranty. That Dell will be lucky to last until the warranty expires.

Rosewill Green Series RG630-S12 630W Continuous @40°C,80 PLUS BRONZE Certified, Single 12V Rail $59
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182200
 
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modernwar99

modernwar99

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The PSU can only put out 385 watts on the 12v rails makes an upgrade hard. Can you take a picture of the entire PSU and the back of the case where the PSU is screwed in? Just to see if you could fit a new PSU in there.
 
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drapacioli

drapacioli

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Ok, if I'm going the PSU upgrade route, this right off the bat: I use a CyberPower CP600LCD UPS. It's literally brand new, just opened up a week ago and installed. It generates a simulated sine wave output, which I hear can cause problems with higher end PSUs, specifically those with active PFC. I would need something that works with my UPS. The UPS is NOT returnable so I would have to absorb the $60 I already spent on that, plus pay for a more expensive, ~$120 one. Add in a $60 PSU and that's basically my whole budget right there with nothing left for a video card, and that's assuming I can even get an upgraded PSU for it.
 
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drapacioli

drapacioli

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Are these pictures good enough? The computer isn't exactly easy to get to where it is right now:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3859/15010303731_b4477c6ced_o.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3907/14826667799_bdefaa88e3_o.jpg
 
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modernwar99

modernwar99

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Thanks, thats exactly what I needed. That looks like the standard form PSU. Pretty much any PSU should fit in there. The long ones might not, but those are usually above 1000 watts. Off topic, but I noticed the CPU cooler fan is hanging by that top screw. Is it supposed to be like that?
 
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drapacioli

drapacioli

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Alright, good to know but that brings me to the post I made above.

REgarding the CPU cooler, that screw is actually NOT the fan screw, it's the heatsink screw. The fan is screwed directly into the heatsink with it's own four screws that are not visible in that first photo:

14826744309_3f6081f59d_z.jpg


I did double check and all 8 screws are attached.
 
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modernwar99

modernwar99

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To fit your budget:
I could fit a R9 270x in there. The MSI Gaming edition is $10 cheaper, but it's fans are REALLY loud and they don't cool very well either.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8573339&SRCCODE=WEBGOOPA&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=paid_search_google_pla&scid=scplp723583&gclid=CLfAl4jFqsACFQGPaQodL7wAfg&gclsrc=aw.ds
Suitable PSU (XFX Core Edition 550 watt 80+ bronze):
http://www.ncixus.com/products/?usaffiliateid=1000031504&sku=59615&vpn=P1550SXXB9&manufacture=XFX&promoid=1046
It's exactly $250 but with taxes it will be over. It's $230 with after rebates.
 
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drapacioli

drapacioli

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Ok, what about a card that uses the same power but is newer so I don't have to worry about the PSU at all? The newest cards are supposed to be much more efficient, so it'll still be a worthwhile upgrade. To be honest, I don't want to change the PSU, it is a huge pain to work inside this case and I've never done a successful PSU swap before (I'm 0-2 in those).
 
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modernwar99

modernwar99

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The R7/R9 series is the newest from AMD... The R9 270 only uses one 6 pin PCIe power connector so it's TDP is lower. That PSU is garbage though and it wouldn't surprise me if it failed and fried all the components in your PC. Is there anyone who could install a PSU for you? But I strongly discourage using that PSU with expensive components... but it's your PC and money so that's your choice.
 
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drapacioli

drapacioli

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Exactly how is this PSU garbage, is it by brand name or by the specs of the PSU itself? If it's brand, do you even know who made it, because I certainly don't. Please share if you do, because I know Dell no longer makes their own (they stopped several years before this computer was built). If it's legitimately garbage and a horrible brand I'll consider replacing it instead of doing a graphics upgrade and just save up for another upgrade down the road, but I don't see the point in replacing it based on a stated opinion without anything to back it up.
 
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modernwar99

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The fact that it only puts out 385 watts on the 12v rails is most of the reason it's garbage. It's common knowledge that PSUs used by brands like HP, Dell, Compaq, Toshiba, etc... aren't quality made. They are used because they are cheap to produce. A quality PSU for gaming should be able to output around 97% of it's rated wattage on the 12v rail. It also doesn't even make the PSU Tier list. If it did, it would be in tier 5. PSUs recommended are in tiers 1-3, anything else should be avoided. I'm surprised the PSU could even keep up with the HD 6870, it's power consumption under full load is almost 200 watts. If you want to use that PSU, go ahead. Just don't blame me if something bad happens. BTW, GPU warranties don't cover damage caused by other components and Dell won't help much because they will only replace your PSU/PC, not aftermarket parts.
 
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drapacioli

drapacioli

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It's fine, I'm not in it to try and prove you wrong or anything, I just want to know where you are getting your information. A lot of people will just say something is garbage based on an opinion and not any actual reasoning, especially on the internet. Now, what are some brands you recommend? I can't buy from everything from Newegg, as stated I have $75 on Amazon to spend first and foremost. I saw the brand you listed was XFX, are they all fine or only certain models? Any other models?

For the record, I was able to find out the manufacturer of the PSU and it was made by Delta. I couldn't find much on them except they are a contract manufacturer and make PSUs for Antec's earthwatts PSUs and ASUS's mobile PSUs. Does that change anything brand-wise? As far as this current one goes, I suppose it could be a ticking time bomb whether or not it's a quality PSU, since it's seen 3 years of 16 hour days. We're talking at least 15,000 hours of use so far, so it's at least done the job until now. That's more than I can say about the original hard drive, which died about a year in (Was a WD too, those are supposed to be good ones).
 
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