Coolers, radiators, what's the difference?

CmdrJeffSinclair

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I want a PC that is cool all the time. I overclock like crazy with AMD FX9590 and I want it colder because it's louder than a ten dying puppies being stabbed with toothpicks with salt in the wounds.

What the friggin hell is a radiator for a PC? I know what it is, it's that big metal block that usually connects to a CPU block with tubes connected to it, but I keep hearing about "radiators" instead of "coolers" and so I was wonder if there are different types of radiators?

I guess I'm asking if a radiator is anything like an air conditioner for a PC or if there are kinds of cooling solutions which chill room air to be sucked into the computer WITHOUT blocks and tubes. Sorta like what an AC does for a car just by use of Freon.

I have the Corsair H100i for my AMD FX9590 in my Corsair Obsidian 750D case. My case instructions say it can fit "a 200mm radiator at the front, back, bottom and top of the case" depending on orientation of other parts.

This was why I was wondering if there were radiators that do not have loops or blocks and simply cool air from outside extra extra cold (unlike a fans using room temps) and is basically an air conditioner for a PC which is set up like a large fan?

I hate all fan noise and I don't care about cost. Just lay your ideas on meh and I'll decide! Thanks guys!
 
Solution
A radiator is the cooler for a liquid cooling system eg H100i. A cooler is for air cooling systems eg Coolermaster Hyper 212 evo.

Air coolers are generally more quiet than water coolers. The best of the air coolers are made by Noctua.

Another name for an air pump is a fan. If you fit larger diameter fans, they don't have to run at so many rpm as smaller fans and so are quieter.
A radiator is the cooler for a liquid cooling system eg H100i. A cooler is for air cooling systems eg Coolermaster Hyper 212 evo.

Air coolers are generally more quiet than water coolers. The best of the air coolers are made by Noctua.

Another name for an air pump is a fan. If you fit larger diameter fans, they don't have to run at so many rpm as smaller fans and so are quieter.
 
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CmdrJeffSinclair

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Ahhhh that all makes sense now. I definitely need liquid cooling for the FX9590. What about the other part of my question? Are there air conditioning type fans or cooler/radiators meant for general internal PC cooling or would I have to use a minifridge as I've read in some awful forums ideas haha
 

jdcranke07

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If you want active cooling then you need to do custom work like including a mini fridge or hooking up an a/c unit to the intake of the case or w/e. Otherwise you can only get as low as ambient air temp. I have 6 rads in my loop and I can only hit minimums of 23'C in my loop. But, good thing is I don't get above 30'C either. ;)
 

CmdrJeffSinclair

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Could you include a pic of your pc witthe side panel off?
 

jdcranke07

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Okay, this is my full system so you can get a proper idea of what I'm running. I'm adding the two pictures as well to help out.

Corsair 900D
Intel i7-4790K
ASRock Z97 OC Formula
EVGA GTX 780 ti Dual Classified x2 (SLI)
Samsung 480 EVO 250GB SSD x2 (Raid 0)
Seagate 3TB HDD x2 (Raid 0)
Corsair Vengeance Pro 2400Mhz 16GB
Corsair AX1200i

EKWB Water Blocks:
780 Classy Water Block x2 Acetal/Nickel
Supremacy Full Nickel
Monarch x4 Acetal/Nickel

Alphacool Rads:
Monsta 480mm
XT45 480mm
ST30 360mm
XT45 240mm x2
XT45 120mm

PrimoChill UV Pearl Yellow 3/8”x5/8” Tubing
Swiftech Dual Extreme Duty Industrial Pump (MCP35x2)
Bitzpower Z-Multi 250 Inline Water Tank
Cooler Master SickleFlow 120 Smoke Case Fans x16
Distilled Water
Mayhem's UV Yellow/Green Dye


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CmdrJeffSinclair

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It's so... impressive!!! This is the best rig I've seen so far for cooling. I will mimic this for sure. Thank you sooooooooooooooooooooo much for the two pictures and the list of products. I want to get my own radiators with custom tubing too and yours seem nice.

I bet your rig cost you $3,500 solid, probably more. My rig will be like yours except 1/3 of everything haha
 

jdcranke07

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Ya, all said and done it was about $5,500.00-$5,600.00. The 780ti classys were about $1400.00 alone and the cooling system was about $1,500.00 by itself. I also took out that LED plug in the reservoir and put in the mayhem dye. Bad thing is I had to RMA one of the GPUs, so I'll be getting it back pretty soon. Until then I'm running one 780ti classy.

And here is a fair warning, The i7-4790K when stressed by Prime95 always hits high temps. At stock it hits between 80-90'C and at a 4.7Ghz OC from 4.0Ghz it stay about the 90'C range even with my cooling system and at 90-100% load. Otherwise it stays about 25-50'C depending on the cooler you have on it and that's real world loads not stress testing. If you keep the stock cooler on it then when you stress it will hit 100'C easily. I'm also not the first one to have this problem. I've run into at least 2 others that have the same and there are not many people out there right now messing with this chip and posting results as it is a new chip.

As for radiators, I prefer Alphacool since they have the most variety in sizes. However, EKWB and others make pretty decent radiators as well. All radiators will need fans on them to pull or push air through them and thats how the heat is taken out of your water loop and released to the room. Keep in mind you room will be much warmer as the water loop is very much more efficient than air coolers on their best days. Some will say air coolers are better, but I've had nothing but bad results with air coolers when speaking of noise to performance ratio. The water loop with distilled water and not coolant is the most preferred way. However, if you want a cool visual with coolants then they are okay to use. Your maintenance will be higher using coolants and your temps will vary only by maybe a degree or two at most compared to distilled water. I use the mayhem's dye which is great since you don't need a lot and you can mix it with biocide and distilled water with no issue.
 

CmdrJeffSinclair

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Hey again, well I'll using the AMD FX9590 8 core Black Edition with a 4GB Gigabyte Radeon R9 290 OC Windforce with headroom for a 2nd GPU. I hate fan noise and from what I've read that my setup will undoubtedly become insanely hot from the processor being 220W alone. Couple that with another 750 from GPUs so I'm planning on 2 water cooling solutions if possible.

I was wondering if you could tell me or teach me how to utilize 2 radiators? I'm still pretty confused with how you set up your computer. My main question is, how many radiators do you have per block? What I mean is, do all water cooling solutions need a block to be implemented, so if I wanted more than one radiator I'd need each rad to have a block (CPU block, GPU block, etc?)

I was really hoping there'd be a way to use a single block for the CPU and dual radiators since the CPU is by absolute far the hottest component in my upcoming rig. Or would that be silly and be better to cool the CPU and GPU with their own rads?

Thanks. I hope I'm making sense. My original post was written with the intention to "actively" cool the entire PC and I was under the allusion that a cooler with a block could be used, but also that a radiator alone might be able to cool air without any need for a block, making it more like active cooling (like AC from a car) rather than having a million loops.
 

jdcranke07

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You actually only need one loop, two loops is advanced and has been shown that it doesn't really improve your temps that much. So one loop is good. Means that you only need one pump for that one loop, however, you can put a double pump in (like mine) or use two individuals in serial setup. You will need one block for every component you plan to cool as well. So, you will need a water block that fits the AM3+ socket for the CPU, and you can use universal or full card water blocks for the GPUs. Universal block are cheaper for the GPUs, but you have to get the VRAM heatsinks separately. The full card waterblock you just install and go. There are many videos out there to help you take off the stock coolers on the cards if you don't know how already.

If you plan too water cool you RAM sticks like I have then you need a waterblock for those as well. They should come with DIMM modules that will be on the sides of each RAM stick (In order to water cool RAM, you have to remove the stock coolers as well. This can be tricky and you can damage the sticks of RAM to where they cannot be used anymore). Order of the water blocks and the radiators DOES NOT MATTER. There will only be a degree or so difference if you try to have a radiator in between every block. So, in short just hook up the tubing to the radiators and blocks in a way that does not kink, looks good, and clean. Use of compression fittings is recommended for easy install. I don't use them, I use barbs with no clamps. This is not recommended, but it has a very clean look to it.

On the radiators, the fan setup does not really matter. Meaning, if you have a push or pull configuration on each radiator. If you have static pressure fans (the fins almost touch the chassis for easy recognition) Then a push/pull setup (fans on both sides of radiator) is not needed and you actually can save money by not having so many fans. The difference between push and pull configs is near nothing so don't worry about the difference. Set it up how your case will allow you.

For intake and exhaust, have your exhaust as the top fans in the case. If you don't have any then put it as the rear. If you have your exhaust going out the top, then all other fans should be intakes. This creates a positive pressure environment that will reduce the amount of dust in you computer case. (IT IS REALLY NICE BTW).

To get really specific, I don't like All-in-one (AIO) CPU coolers like the Corsair H100i. However, they are very nice for beginner water coolers and are a much quieter solution compared to some air coolers. There are some starter kits for custom loops out there if you want to skip the AIO coolers. The AIO coolers take up less room, but do not have the performance like a custom loop will have.

If you want more specifics on this or on how I would setup a case then shoot me the info about the case you would like to have with all of the components and I'll take a look and let ya know how I would set it up. But do remember that the kits will be a bit more expensive than the AIO coolers, but they are so worth it.

Edit: I have a bottom chamber in my case that the fans push and pull the air across from one side to the other. This allows for better air flow, so I actually have two areas for exhaust due to how my case is setup.

I also based my build of off this youtube vid I found. Linus has many videos that go pretty in depth about how to setup stuff and there are also videos from Singularity Computers that I used to help me better understand things.

http://youtube.be/JtHDgdo5pR0
 

jdcranke07

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If you shop at frozencpu.com, just keep in mind that if you want any EKWB product and they run out. It can take up to a month to get it to you. I'm still waiting on DIMM modules to show up after ordering them over a month ago. In my case they shipped out everything but my backplates and my DIMM modules for my RAM sticks. They sent the backplates when they got them in after a month of waiting on EKWB and then frozencpu failed to put in my DIMM modules as well and I'm still waiting on those.
 

hackerk

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not a big difference between them the radiators are the kind of coolers. but radiators works on the liquid cooling mechanism. it is the same as in your car. but the size for the computer is small.
 

CmdrJeffSinclair

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Wow, what a superb explanation! That's just what I was looking for. I would definitely love your advice specifically for my rig! I have many ideas but I'll leave them to you to chop up since you clearly know your stuff.

My idea was to get the following parts and then install the best "quietest" fans/radiator solutions since the cpu I picked gets notoriously hot.

MY RIG I'll buy in a couple weeks:
CPU: AMD FX-9590 4.7GHz-5GHz stocks, overclocked to maybe 5.2GHz hopefully
MOBO: ASUS Crosshair V Formula-Z AM3+ AMD 990FX
------I chose this mobo since it has great integrated sound channels, higher supported RAM bandwidths, fast boot mode, uses UEFI, and generally has more/better features than the other AM3+ mobos.
RAM: AMD Radeon R9 Gamer Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3- 2400MHz
------NOTE: I hope to tighten the RAM timings to 7-8-8-27 and keep this RAM underclocked to 1866MHz. I like to overclock but AMD APU architecture greatly benefits from lower CAS Latencies, and the difference between 2400 and 1866MHz is negligible when overclocked from what I've read, hence the logic to underclock higher bandwidth RAM and then tighten timings when locked at 1866MHz. HOWEVER, I've read that most or all RAM today is really just 1600MHz modules that are sold "pre-overclocked" and are therefore, not worth the extra money. Is this actually true? If it is true then I'd just buy 1866MHz RAM and leave the awful CL9 alone.
HDD: 2x 2TB HYBRID Seagate 7200RPM SATA III 6Gb/s w/64MB Cache and 7.8GB NAND Flash Cache
GPU: 2x 4GB Gigabyte Radeon R9 290 4GB OC WINDFORCE (second GPU will be bought later if needed, so for now plan on 2 GPU's but I'll start with one).
-----A $700 GPU would be so much more awesomer but in reality no games will require more than 3-4GB VRAM at 1080p60. I don't care about 3D or 4K res and 120Hz is silly unless it's interpolated.

COOLER: I'd prefer a custom cooler with purple-lit tubes, but I found coolers to be so daunting to self-educate myself with that I'm almost afraid to even try. Googling has proven very unhelpful.
PSU: Corsair RM 1000W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX (900W for second GPU)
----The Radeon R9's require 250W headroom, so two R9 290s will put me at ~900W with this setup
4x 1200RPM Corsair Air Series AF140mm LED Quiet Edition High Airflow Fans 67CFM
***************CASE: Corsair Obsidian Series 750D Full Tower
ASUS 12x Blu Ray Reader and Writer
Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit SP1

TOTAL: $1,830
SO that's my rig and it's not a bad price for an super-powered future-proofed entertainment center. I'd use my HDTV for my monitor. Since you've been so amazingly generous with your expertise, there are two specific answers I seek.
1) Is the Corsair 750D full tower case unnecessarily large for the parts I've chosen? (I'll never use more than 2 HDD's and never have more than 2 GPU's). I was debating some of the more mid-sized Corsair Obsidian 600 and 700 series cases but I was unsure due to my desure for the coolest system possible for the price.
2) I have no idea what parts I'd need for a $100-120ish custom radiator cooling solution like you have. The Corsair Hyrdro H100i seemed excellent but has no flash, no pride, nothing that says "ME" on it. When push comes to shove though I will not spend too much more money for a custom radiator when I could just get cheap LEDs or LED fans. Any ideas?

Thank you and I will check this article frequently for your advice!!!