UPS connected to a Surge-protector. .......

Saigo666

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I have used a Surge-protector for Quite a long time.
And I just got myself a 900W UPS, (Tripp-Lite).
Now, I am wondering, is there any benefit to, instead of having the UPS going directly to the wall outlett, if I have the UPS plugged into the surge protector?
It would seem to me that if I have the Surge-protector between the wall outlet & the UPS, the UPS should be getting Cleaner, Filtered AC.
And therefore, the UPS's electronics should be doing Less work.
With the end result being, maybe the UPS's output might be even Cleaner, and the UPS might even last longer.
Is my Logic sound? , or am I overlooking something in Physics or Electronics -?
 
Solution
It should be fine to use the surge protector. A newer one of similar high end design would, of course, be better. Especially one that designates power conditioning, but it should be at least as ok as any other as far as risk is concerned. Anything that old that's protecting my circuitry I'd seriously consider replacing asap though. As with all electronics, the circuitry is compromised over time.
Most power strips and surge protectors are poorly built. If your power strip or surge protector does not specifically state that it is a power conditioner, then it likely doesn't do anything and might even make things worse by increasing the resistance in the circuit.
 

Saigo666

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Saigo666

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Well, this Originally was a High-end Surge-protector, ($80), but, it is over 20 years old too.
So, your saying I should just have the UPS going 'Streight' to the wall outlet, and Not use the Surge-protector ?
 


They're talking about being plugged into the output of the UPS, they're not talking about the UPS being plugged into the surge protector.
 
It should be fine to use the surge protector. A newer one of similar high end design would, of course, be better. Especially one that designates power conditioning, but it should be at least as ok as any other as far as risk is concerned. Anything that old that's protecting my circuitry I'd seriously consider replacing asap though. As with all electronics, the circuitry is compromised over time.
 
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makkem

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Hi
It actually addresses both scenarios and I believe the question was is there any benefit to plugging the UPS into the surge protector.
 
True, but they are also only addressing situations where other components may be plugged into the same surge protector and therefore theoretically decreasing the possible available voltage that can pass through the surge protector. If the UPS is the only device plugged into the surge protector it should not be an issue.
 

westom

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Using Schneider Electric's reasoning, then also do not plug an extension cord into the UPS. Since that does something similar. Using Schneider's reasoning, an extension cord can also compromise UPS operation and voltage to the appliance.

Using Schneider's reasoning, a power strip that might reduce UPS output voltage will also reduce UPS input voltage. Causing a UPS to switch to battery more often and shortening UPS battery life expectancy.

If safety ground can be compromised as claimed, then an extension cord also creates that problem. Their reasons come without numbers. Subjective reasoning can claim almost anything regardless of reality. Add nunmbers and those fears evaporate.

Reality is this. A UPS in battery backup mode can be some of the 'dirtiest' power. For example, this 120 volt sine wave UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. That can degrade or harm a surge protector. Protector's response to that 'dirty' power may also confuse or had even even damaged some UPSes.

A UPS output (200 volt square waves with a 270 volt spike) is also ideal power for electronics. Because protection inside electronics is often equal or superior to what a power strip might do. Best protection at the appoliance is already inside the appliance to make surges and 'dirty' UPS power irrelevant.

OP defines a high quality protector only because it is $80. Most $80 strip protectors are electrically equivalent ot one selling in WalMart for $10. If high quality, then manufacturer's specification numbers (not price) define it as high quality. Monster has a long history of identifying scams. Then selling an equivalent product with expensive looking paint for even higher price. A Monster $120 power strip was electrically equivalent to one selling in Walmart for $10. Monster has a long history of doing this. Same also applies to some devices relabeled as power conditioners. It only is as good as its specification numbers. Price says almost nothing useful.

A protector that somehow filters and absorbs a surge may be a thousand of joules. A surge that tiny is often converted by electronics into low voltage DC to power its semiconductors. Electronics that use 'dirty' UPS power also convert hundreds of joule surges into useful electricity. So what does an $80 power strip do?

OP's concern should focus on another surge that can actually overwhelm existing protection. That surge is only addressed by a completely different device, unfortunately, also called a surge protector. Since even a UPS and $80 power strip also need protection afforded by the other (and less expensive) solution.
 
I have to disagree to some extent. While price is no guarantee of quality, or as you put it, numbers, I will guarantee that you won't get a high quality surge protector or power conditioner that DOES meet your criteria without paying a premium. Quality components cost money. Rare earth materials and the costs of engineering quality electronic components is expensive. Therefore, cost IS somewhat of an indicator of quality.

Of course you need to read specifications and professional component reviews prior to making any purchase but to suggest that no determination of quality can ever be made based on the cost of a component is ridiculous. My advise, start with the ten most expensive products in the category you're interested in. Research them to verify the voracity of their claims and then select the least expensive unit that performs as advertised and has been proven to meet or exceed it's listed specifications.

And your "numbers", don't mean squat. Power supplies list specs on their labels all the time that most of them don't come anywhere close to in reality. Even units with the so called ECOS efficiency certification are a joke. Most the professional reviewers are now indicating the spec is laughable and shouldn't be considered when purchasing a PSU as seen here http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Can-We-Trust-the-80-Plus-Certification/856/1 and here http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/10/04/80_plus_irrelevant_to_you_when_buying_psu/#.VAdJQ-l0xhE .

Westom, I think that most people will agree that you have an entirely different concept of electricity, which mostly resides only in your head, and while I can agree on some points you've made, but I cannot agree that price is never an indicator of quality or reliability. Maybe not always, but certainly not never.
 

Saigo666

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Well, I did a bit of looking into reviews on my Belkin Surgemaster ll .
Here is a bit of what I found:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/reviews/B00000J1RU?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

After reading this, I went over to my Belkin, unplugged it, and thew it away immediately.
(Actually, I tore it apart just to look inside, 'Then' off to the trash).
I don't support companies with poor customer service.
But, I may still do some research on Good Surge-protector's. I kinda like the idea of having a Surge-protector to condition the AC before it gets to my UPS. Just seems like cleaner AC to my UPS would assist in the circuits lasting longer.
Oh, and the date stamp on this Belkin is '97 , so, I have had it for about 17 years.

Thanx for all of your inputs too.
 

westom

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Best surge protector is necessary to even protect the $80 Belkin or $120 Monster (or the same circuit found in a Walmart for $10). That superior solution costs about $1 per protected appliance. Is always found in every facility that cannot and does not have damage. And is for surges that are even hundreds of thousands of joules. Never ignor specification numbers. Numbers are provided with every useful recommendation.

How many joules does the Belkin, Monster, or other plug-in protector claim to protect from? Hundreds of joules? A thousand? Why do such tiny protectors sell for 80 or 120 times more? Because most look at price. Ignore specification numbers. Do not learn what protectors do. Sometimes see the protector fail and call that good. And then recite only what advertising and hearsay has told them.

Monster has a long history of identifying scams. Then selling an equivalent product for much higher price. Because so many (probably a majority) associate price with quality. A best surge protector that even makes direct lightning strikes irrelevant and that provides specification numbers that say so - it costs about $1 per protected appliance. And comes from other companies with superior integrity.