Mostly new build.Need help selecting CPU.Need advice on case and psu.

Guest · Sep 3, 2014

Hello. I already have got a GTX 650 Ti 1GB Windforce from Gigabyte, an 2 TB HDD from WD Blue, and a 1x4GB RAM stick from corsair. I am going to use them in my system and I will not change the CPU-MoBo-GPU for 3-5 years. But I might add some ram and maybe an ssd later.

Approximate Purchase date: 2 weeks-6weeks (may not purchase at all)

System Usage:Gaming mostly at 40ish fps-I prefer eye candy to 60 fps-, web surfing, general non demanding use.

Budget:Not fully known, around 350-400 $

Also please note that I live in Turkey, and prices here are massively diffrent. I don`t want to know where to buy, I want to know what to buy.

Buying a monitor: Nope.

Parts to upgrade: CPU, MoBo, Case, PSU, Optical Drive.

Need os: NO

SLI/CF: NO

OC:Yeah medium with stock cooling

Monitor res: 1920x1080

Parts preferences: Very good PSU to use in future builds, plan to use it for 5+ years. Good case 5+ years usage.

WHY ARE YOU UPGRADING: I have upgraded my GPU,HDD and monitor recently. Original build is a 2009 entry level gaming pc. I am selling my old PC to a friend and getting my new parts.

Old PC was a C2D E7500, GT240 and 2GB RAM with inexpensive case and psu.

CPU: I am looking for a CPU that matches my GTX 650 Ti perfectly. NO i5 OVERKILL PLEASE! I think of getting the G3258, is it a good choice ?

85-90$ G3258

MoBo: I need out of box compatibility because I wont be able to find another haswell chip to flash bios. Anything that`s enough for bios flash is fine. My selection is the H81M-D because of its price being close to cheapest models (2$ diffrence), Asus reliability and feeling like getting a premium product :lol:

Price:63$

Optical Drive: Not much to explain.21$ for that one.

PSU: I can do 3 diffrent things here. Go for a low end Zalman ZM LX 500 for 62$, go for mid end Seasonic S12 II 520 for 74-97$ or get a very nice, amazing in fact M12 II 750W which is a Tier 1
unit. Its selling for 134-152$.

Case: I have exact models and prices. Should I go for Carbide200R+ VS 550 bundle for 141$, get Zalman ZM-T4 for 40$, get Deep Cool Tesseract BF for 42$, get Zalman Z3 plus which comes with 4 fans for 58$ or get Zalman Z12 Plus for 78$. Or, lastly, get Carbide 200R for 81$ ?

Additional Question: What is the performance diffrence between a stock cooled OC G3258 around 4.2-4.4 vs Stock cooled OC 6300 vs i3 4130 vs stock cooled OC 6350 Black Edition WHICH COMES WITH A DAMN LIQUID COOLING SYSTEM AS STOCK COOLER? :kaola:

So yeah its G3258vs i3 4130 vs FX 6300vs FX 6350 BE on the CPU side.

Zalman ZM LX 500 vs Seasonic S12II 520 vs Seasonic M12II 750 on the PSU side.

Case thing is too long to write again..

Col Da Red · Sep 3, 2014

For cpu also may look at an a10 which is more directed at gaming and still preett cheap. For the case/psu since your on a budget do the corsair bundle. Also look at the coolermaster hyper t4 if you want to oc at all especially on the 6300 (its relatively hot)

Guest · Sep 3, 2014

Col Da Red :

Don`t agree with that.

A10 5800K is the same price as i3, which is around 141$.

FX 6300 is 131$, 10$ cheaper and has two more cores(one more module).

Performance of an 4.4 Ghz OC G3258 is around an i3 4130, which generally scores better than FX 6300. FX 6350 BE though, is diffrent because of stock liquid cooler. A10 seems to be the weakest. Also I don`t need an APU because I already have a GTX 650 Ti.

Motherboard costs of AMD CPU`s are a lot higher. TDP is nearly double too(53w on pentium,95w on 6300,125w on 6350,100w on a10.)

dav_jw · Sep 3, 2014

For gaming, the Intel CPU are generally faster than the similarly priced AMD. The G3258 is a good choice if you plan to upgrade it sometime later, as you will need to be spend a bit more on the motherboard to be able overclock it. An upgraded cooler is also preferred, but not needed for a modest OC (Something like a 212+ evo is around 20$ USD and should be more than sufficient).

Edit: how much is the FX 6350 (or 6350 BE in your country? That would be a viable alternative if the price is similar to the i3. It should perform similarly in games and single-threaded programs, and quite a bit better in most threaded applications.
Considering you do not plan to upgrade this system for a while, I would recommend that you get the i3, stock cooler and a cheaper motherboard.

For the PSU, you won't need more than 400-450 W, so the Seasonic S12II 520 is probably your best option (between the models you listed).

As for the case, I'd pick the Zalman Z3 (better cooling) or the DeepCool Tesseract (cheap).

So with those parts total would be:
MB: 63
Optical: 21
CPU: 141
Case: 58
PSU: 74
Total: 357$

If you want to increase the upgradability of your build, you could spend a bit more on the MB (you might be able to cram a Z97 MB in that budget) and get a Pentium G3258 and better cooler.

Guest · Sep 3, 2014

dav_jw :

6350 BE w/ liquid cooler and a midrange asus 990 board is 263$

i3 4150 and Asus H81M-D is 198$

Coolers like 212+ Evo is not even available here. OH YEAH, REMEMBER! I seen a popular 30$ cooler here with a price tag of 55$ :wahoo:

Anyways, for 439$, I can get i3 4150, Asus H81M-D, DVD Writer, Seasonic M12II 750 and Zalman Z12 plus.

There is a 49$ price diffrence between i3 4150 and G 3258. Is hyperthreading worth it ?

Is it logical for you people to spend good money on a Tier1 PSU and a nice case to use in future builds ? I am trying to find the perfect balance. I can, for example, get i5 4440+ Asus H81M-D+DVD+ Zalman ZM-T4 case and S12II PSU for 439$. But my GTX 650 Ti will be too weak for that i5, case and psu will be cheap and I maybe will not be able to use them on future builds.

EDIT: Do you think its worth the extra 80$ to have better case and PSU ?

dav_jw · Sep 3, 2014

I wouldn't even consider the 750W PSU. It is a lot more than you would need, even if you ever upgrade to, say a i5 and GTX780. Only if you would consider going for dual video cards (SLI or Crossfire) should you consider it (and you would have to change the MB, and maybe the case too).

It would be worth it to include the Z12 instead if you plan to ever reuse it and you can fit it in your budget. The difference in price is small the case looks to be quite a bit better than the Z3.

Can you get the 6350 without the liquid cooler? At almost 200$ for the CPU and cooler, it's not worth it compared to the 140$ i3 (or the Pentium). If the price is still higher (or equal) than the i3, I would recommend the i3 (or Pentium).

An overclocked Pentium can hold it's own against the i3, it will even surpass it in some cases (depending how much you can OC it). The i3 is still no doubt the faster CPU, and it will show in CPU-limited games (and applications, of course). With the stock cooler, I doubt you can push the Pentium high enough to match the i3. And overclocking is always an unknown, it's never guaranteed. One CPU might do 5,0ghz, while another won't reach 4,6.

Another reason I preferred the i3 over the Pentium is the choice of motherboard. Overclocking isn't officially supported on most boards other than the "Z" series. IIRC, many cheaper boards will support overclocking with the Pentium, but you will have to be careful when choosing. I'm not very familiar with this, so you will have to do your own research to make sure the motherboard you chose will allow you to OC the Pentium (or get an expensive Z97 board).

If you plan to upgrade soon, I would usually recommend Pentium+Cooler+Better motherboard. You would then invest the 50$ difference on a cooler and spend a few extra $ on a better motherboard. You would later be able to upgrade the CPU up the i7 4770K without changing anything, and maybe even adding a second video card (depending on the case, PSU and MB you picked). You also get more connectivity on the MB, and a few extra features. Given the price and availability of components in your region, this might be difficult.

Given that "availability" of coolers is an issue for you, I picked the i3 because it performs generally better than the Pentium, still leaves you some room for upgrade and should last you a good while, even if you ever upgrade the video card. Going for the above option would probably require you to spend quite a bit more than your initial budget.

Guest · Sep 3, 2014

dav_jw :

Your post makes a lot of sense, especially about the CPU/MoBo and case.

And, good news! Price of i3 4130 have dropped 18$, from 142$ to 124$ :lol:

Now I am thinking of this:
CPU: i3 4130 for 124$
MoBo:Asus H81M-D for 63.74$
Optical Drive:Lite-On 24X for 21.24$
Case:Zalman Z12-PLUS for 77$
PSU:Seasonic M12II 750 for 142$ or Seasonic M12II620 for 106$

If got 750 watts, I will pay 428$, if not I will pay 392$.

I know that you are saying "Pff, what a STUBBORN IDIOT..". But there are reasons and for that I want to get the 750w m12ii. :ouch:

1.The PSU Tier List Tiering: This tier list says that Seasonic M12II 750W is a "Tier one - The highest quality and most stable PSUs available on the hardware market today. Highly recommended for any situation " amazing PSU. While they are nearly identical, M12II is haswell certified and works with C6 and C7 steppings. I know that I can disable them and they are only for saving power, but more features are better eh ?

2. Moar cables: Yes! Just look at the charts.

M12II 750W Cables:

M12II 750W Wattage Table:

M12II 620W Cables:

M12II 620W Wattage Table:

Of course, I do RESPECT your opinion. To me, I think its worth 36$ to have 168Watts more on the 12V rail, also having 2 more 8 pin connectors.

Additional comment: I think M12II 750W can be used with 2way 780ti sli.

I still want your comments. How do you think about that combo? Is i3 4130 and my GTX 650 Ti a good match? I think reusing Case and PSU on my future builds for like, 8-10 years. What`s your comments about this ?

Should I add anohter 4GB when money comes or get 16GB set? Also adding an SSD to that entry level build a good idea ?

dav_jw · Sep 3, 2014

I thought the S12II was 74$, my recommendation was based on that. With a difference of 68$ I would have spent the money elsewhere (or saved it). The S12II is still a very good unit and should last you a good while, and it has enough power for almost any CPU+GPU system. As for the connectors, it really depends what you will want to connect (how many hard drives, video cards, etc...), otherwise there isn't really a need for more (but the modular cables are nice, I'll admit it). If the price difference is only half that, I might want to consider it, especially if you want to future-proof your machine (or some components at least). But I still think the money could be spent better. And yes, a 750W should be enough for 2 780ti, but do you really plan to invest 2K (I'm guessing that is what 2x780ti cost where you live =P) in video cards? You would then have to replace motherboard, CPU (well, not HAVE to, but it would be a serious bottleneck), and maybe even the case.

The way I see it is this: for the very long term (5+ years), yes the PSU would be a better investment, as even if your CPU+MB would probably be outdated, the PSU would still be good.
However, in that time frame, almost anything can happen. There might be a 150W card that perform better than those 2 780ti released, or a new ATX standard, or flying cars...
I think it is much more likely that in a year or 2, you might want to upgrade your CPU, RAM, maybe add a few hard drives and change the video card. A bigger PSU gives you absolutely no benefit in that situation, but a better motherboard might expend your options a bit (second GPU, more RAM slots, compatibility with K CPUs, more connectivity...)

I see no problem reusing a case for 8-10 years, as it is purely mechanical. There might be different connectivity options then, but essentially, not much changes there. A good PSU should last you a good while too, but 10 years is a really long time.

About memory, 4GB should be fine for now, 8GB is pretty much the sweet spot for a gaming build. 16GB is not really needed (at least for now and the foreseeable future) for gaming.

A SSD is always a good idea, in my opinion, but should not be your priority, especially on a tight budget. Unless you already have a hard drive or can live with the SSD only, with no secondary storage.

Guest · Sep 6, 2014

UPDATE! AMD gets my attention with their pretty cheap FX 6300.

Hello again. After some time and research, I added FX 6300 to my options. Not the FX 6350 though. There is a 27$ diffrence between 6300 and 6350 BE. And it needs a MoBo that supports 125w CPU, and its 46$ more expensive than what I am thinking to pair with FX 6300.

Question: Do you guys think its worth 73$ to have FX 6350 BE and better MoBo? I`ve heard its not really worth the money. Sure, liquid cooler allows for some nice overclocking, but I am on a budget, trying to choose a processor thats appropriate for GTX 650 Ti.

CPU: FX 6300 for 133$
MoBo:Asus M5A78L-M LX3 for 58$

Can anyone confirm it will work out of the box? It says minimum BIOS version for FX processors is 0401.
Mini Edit:Actually just checked CPU Compatibility for FX 6300 and it says minimum BIOS ver is 0702.

Question2: What will happen, lets say, if I got my FX 6300 and Mobo, but the BIOS version was lower than 0702. Would I need to update bios using anohter supported CPU? If so, I just can`t. I need it compatible, oob.

Performance against i3 4130:

Right now, I have the impression that FX 6300 performs a little bit better than i3 4130 in todays games, and will perform a lot better than its opponent in tomorrow`s games.

That impression came from various places, such as;

1. EA`s Recommended system config for various games: I play many games from EA such as FIFA and Battlefield series. I look forward to the upcoming FIFA 15. And one thing got my attention. On the Recommended Specification, it recommends a i5 2550K@ 3.40Ghz (or AMD FX 6350 Six Core Equivelent)
(EA also recommends using Intel Quad Core or AMD Six Core for BF4)
Questions come to my mind. If EA sees FX 6350 as i5 2550K equivalent, what about i3 4130? Next generation(and some current gen) games are going to be heavily multi threaded ? Is next gen consoles 8 weak cores going to change developers style?

2. Some posts in this forum:

CooLWoLF :

I may have gone too deep, back to the build.

Now I am thinking about this:

CPU:FX 6300 for 133$
MoBo:Asus M5A78L-M LX3 for 58$
Optical Drive:Samsung SH-224DB for 21$
Case:Zalman Z3 Plus(comes with 4 fans) for 58$ or Zalman Z12 Plus(comes with 3 fans but better potential) for 77$ or Deep Cool Tesseract BF(only 1 fan) for 41$.
PSU: Seasonic S12II 620W for 97$ or Seasonic M12II 620W for 107$ or Seasonic M12II 750W for 142$.

Cheapest costs 350$ mid range costs 377$ best costs 431$.

If bought midrange or the best, would need to add 4gb more RAM and voila! I got a nice entry level build and case&PSU that can be used in other builds.

Not planning to add more RAM anytime soon though.

Hell, I`ve written so much, I forgot why I wrote this :lol:

dav_jw · Sep 6, 2014

It really depends on the game. As you pointed out, those who heavily rely on multi-threading will usually favor the FX. In the rest, the i3 will lead easily.
Keep in mind that the i5 2500 is also 2 generations older than the 4130, if you compared the two you would probably see the exact same thing as 4130 vs 6300. The i3 will be faster in single threaded applications, whereas the 2550/6300 will work better in the multi-threaded ones.

I'm pretty sure, however, that in a game like Battlefield 4, the FX will have the edge. So yes, in general, games will be more and more optimized for multi-core CPUs like the FX. However, as of now (and near future), it's more of a draw between the two.

(I wouldn't look at the 6350, it simply is an overclocked 6300. The liquid cooler is nice, but you can probably buy this separately for the same price).

With a middle range card like the 650 Ti, you probably won't see much of a difference between the two, except maybe in some specific titles (multi-threaded, CPU dependent games like Skyrim and BF4 multiplayer).

Considering this, the main reason I discarded the FX (other than price, where I live it is much more expansive than the i3) is upgradability. Going with Intel, you can upgrade up to the i7 4770(K) on any socket 1150. Even in a few years, I have no doubt that this will represent a significant upgrade. On the other hand, the highest you can go with AMD is the FX 8xxx, which can't even match the i5 at stock speed in most games. I'm not sure if they plan to release other CPU that will be compatible, but for now it's pretty much a dead end.

So in the end, my opinion is that it really would depend on how long you plan to keep this system in its current state. For now, both are pretty closely matched for gaming. If you do not upgrade either, then the FX might have the lead in a few years (especially considering you can overclock it). If you ever upgrade your CPU, however, the Intel build will last you longer.

Guest · Sep 7, 2014

Thanks for the answer.

I have a strong feeling that mainstream games (anything thats developed for consoles) will favor AMD`s "more but weaker" cores.

FX 6300 Specs:

PS4 CPU Specs:

Looking at them, I don`t know the IPC (instructions per cycle) diffrence but they should be close. FX 6300 has much higher frequency, 3 modules instead of 2, each of these modules have 2 cores instead of 4 . Also, each module has 2 MB`s of L2 cache, with a total of 6MB against 4MB.

Also I think its fair to say that I think FX is stronger because it has 95W TDP against PS4`s CPU`s much lower TDP and more raw resources.

But of course, these are theories. Many people just dismiss consoles as "cheap and weak gaming machines for poor people". To me, it looks stronger than its console brother. But again, consoles are closed machines and they have OS developed for efficiency and specifically for them.

Moving along to working out of the box issue. As I said, I have no possibility of finding anohter CPU, and I need someone to confirm if FX 6300 is going to work with my selected MoBo (look above).

Also I am not looking to upgrade anything in the near future. CPU+GPU+MoBo should stay the same for at least 2-3 years and if I decide to make an upgrade, it would be adding 4GB more RAM first and adding a SSD later.

And yeah. I think thats it. If working out of the box gets confirmed by my fellow Tomshardware forumers, and prices remain the same/close and I get my money together before Broadwell release, I think I would get the FX 6300.

Thanks for advice, my fellow forumer.

(This post may contain typos and may need editing.)

Edit1: Damn it. I think I should change my writing style. I try to prove a point but it seems I fail doing so.

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