$1000 AMD Build (are there any bottlenecks?)

The_Ma5ter

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Hey guys! I have never built a computer before but my friend has. I've been planning this build for about a year now and I'm really excited! Before I buy it and build it though, I wanted your opinions. Are there any individual parts that will bottleneck and slow down my computer? Also, I've checked several times and am pretty sure that everything is compatible withe each other, but I'm new to this. Any hints or tips are greatly appreciated! Me and my other friend are going to compete with each other and see who can build the best desktop. Help me win guys!

Here is the URL: http://pcpartpicker.com/user/The_Ma5ter/saved/NshKHx
 
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ptZRnQ
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ptZRnQ/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD FX-8320 3.5GHz 8-Core Processor ($148.97 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus M5A97 R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($72.00 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($118.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($56.99 @ Micro Center)
Video Card: MSI Radeon R9 280X 3GB TWIN FROZR Video Card ($284.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Thermaltake Chaser A31 ATX Mid Tower Case ($66.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($74.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($15.00 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($87.98 @ OutletPC)
Other: Wireless Network Adapters ($30.00)
Total: $1076.87
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-06 21:27 EDT-0400

A quickly made but much better PC than the one in your link
 

The_Ma5ter

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@kamehame: I'm trying to get a gpu as good or better than the one I currently have. I can't spend too much more money on my build. I don't want to go over $1020. Is there a gpu that can justify the price and perform relatively the same as the one I'm looking at?

@jameson: I will look closer at that build, but I have a question on my mind. It was my understanding that 8-cores cut through video editing like butter but lack when it comes to gaming. I think linustechtips said a 4 core is optimized for gaming. How would a pn 8-core be a good choice?
 

mdocod

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1. FX-4350 is a poor value CPU at $125 IMO. There are so many CPUs that cost less and perform as well or better. For real time workloads like gaming FX chips are not a particularly great value unless overclocked anyway, and then, only if you pick some of the best value options like the FX-6300. If you're set on buying an AMD quad core (which has less execution resources and less performance than a haswell dual core in real time workloads), the you'll find better value on the FM2+ platform with a 760K athlon.
2. The M5A97 is another poor value pick, The new MSI 970 Gaming and Gigabyte UD3P are both superior 970 chipset motherboards (beefier VRMs, better onboard audio, similar price) . There are also many H97 boards (intel) around the $100 mark worth consideration if this is primarily intended as a gaming build.
3. I don't see any reason to buy thermal compound if you're not going to buy aftermarket cooling for the CPU. The OEM cooler comes with paste pre-applied.
4. Raidmax PSUs are OEMed by Andyson, a PSU brand known for making nothing but cheap mediocre rubbish from bottom barrel parts.
5. If you're trying to get the most band for buck on your GPU, avoid the 4GB versions of the GTX760. While a GTX760 is a great GPU, the 4GB version really only makes sense if you intend to SLI a pair of them (as VRAM doesn't scale up with multiple cards).
6. If it has to be an AMD build (maybe this is part of your little competition? AMD vs intel? idunno), then it should be RED! Obviously ;) (just kidding, whatever floats your boat man)


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PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($106.02 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Zalman CNPS9900MAX-R CPU Cooler ($49.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI 970 GAMING ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($99.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Mushkin Redline 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($82.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Sandisk Extreme II 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital BLACK SERIES 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($78.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon R9 280 3GB TurboDuo Video Card ($204.00 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair SPEC-03 Red ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Rosewill Capstone 650W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($87.99 @ Newegg)
Wireless Network Adapter: Rosewill N600PCE 802.11a/b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($14.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1004.92
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-06 22:15 EDT-0400


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Regarding core count and gaming/real-time workloads:

AMD PileDriver "cores" share a front end (decoder, scheduler). That shared decoder/scheduler has a similar throughput as the decoder found on a non-hyperthreaded haswell core. When both cores of a "module" are busy, there is a performance penalty to each core as the instruction decoder tends to be the bottleneck. The cores themselves are also very small (very few execution resources compared to the competing haswell product from Intel). In other words, a "4 core" AMD is nothing like a "4 core" Intel. In fact, 4 haswell cores have more execution resources than an FX-8350. Games do indeed run really well on powerful 4 core chips like the i5-4590. They do not run particularly great on a CPU with 4 very weak cores. The sweet spot for value on AMD is the FX-6300 and some overclocking. Even at 4.5ghz the FX-6300 will still fall short of the performance of say, an i5-4590, but it can typically be implemented for a bit lower cost. and comes within tossing distance of the i5 well enough that if the importance of the machine being a novelty AMD build outweighs absolute performance goals, then the FX chip is fine. Think of the FX-6300 as a "3 module" CPU, rather than a "6 core" CPU, with each module having less execution resources than a haswell core. This will help put into perspective why even with "6 core" and a healthy but conservative overclock to 4.5ghz, it still won't perform quite as well as the i5-4590.
 

The_Ma5ter

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It doesn't have to be an AMD build. We are just competing for the best desktop. I was going with amd because I was told it was better for gaming for the price. I changed my motherboard to the one you suggested. However, I would like to stick with a quad core CPU. If there is a better quad core CPU then I would probably get it. Just remember my price range. Also, when I looked at the gpu you suggested, it had a lot lower ghz. It confused me a little. Thank you for the help so far!

Oh! The PSU you suggested was too expensive for my current build. Plus, I was told that a PSU isn't that important as long as it gives enough power. I'm a beginner, so I'm probably wrong. Still, is there a PSU that's a little cheaper? Thanks!
 

logainofhades

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This would be my pick. PSU is very important. Do not listen to the person that told you otherwise. A crappy PSU can die and take your system with it.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($187.93 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock Fatal1ty H97 Killer ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($97.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($72.00 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Micro Center)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($53.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 280X 3GB Dual-X Video Card ($273.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Micro Center)
Power Supply: EVGA 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($54.99 @ Micro Center)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NSB0 DVD/CD Writer ($13.50 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($86.99 @ NCIX US)
Wireless Network Adapter: Rosewill N600PCE 802.11a/b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($14.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1016.34
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-06 23:12 EDT-0400
 

The_Ma5ter

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Quick question. The case you listed only had 2 USB 3 and no USB 2. I'm going to need more than just 2 USB slots. Does your motherboard's USB connect to a mouse cord or something else like that?
 

The_Ma5ter

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mdocod

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If you're not locked on an AMD build, then I would advise an i5 haswell instead. Much better arrangement of execution resources for real time workloads like gaming. Unless you have access to a microcenter (really good combo deals on AMD CPUs and boards) there aren't many situations where an FX chip is a better value than a haswell chip for gaming.

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Clock speed and core count are very superficial and misleading specifications in the world of computing hardware; this applies to both CPU's and GPU's. GPU clock speeds are almost irrelevant, as pretty much every GPU these days has a core clock ~800-1200mhz. The specifications that matter, are unfortunately in many ways only comparable within the same family of GPUs...

If core clocks were the most important indicator for GPU performance, then the R7 260X would be AMD's fastest GPU. That's obviously not true at all.

Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Volcanic_Islands_.28Rx_200.29_Series
and here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units#GeForce_700_Series

The GP/s, GT/s and GB/s VRAM bandwidth specifications on the charts can be used as comparative indicators when comparing GPUs, but keep in mind that real world performance and theoretical throughput are not the same thing. Some architectures close the gap on theoretical better than others, and the conditions of the workload also greatly effect this.

Counting cores and ghz is about as useful as counting cyliders and rpm for an engine. I can build you a miniature replica V12 engine that spins 30,000RPM. Does having 12 cylinders and 30,000 RPM make it more powerful than the 4 cylinder engine in a sedan that redlines at 6000rpm? RPM and Cylinder count are meaningless without more details about the engine, like the displacement, the fuel type, the sophistication of the valve-train, fuel/air management systems, and/or any atmospheric modifications.

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Wattage ratings on a PSU can also be very superficial, which is why GPU manufactures are forced to recommend enormous PSU sizes to power their GPUs. Their PSU sizing recommendation has to accommodate a world where not all PSUs are created equal, and not all wattage ratings are held to the same standards.

There are some 700W PSUs that really can't sustain better than ~500W continuous, and even at those power levels, are going to live a very short life (raidmax has lots of examples of this type of overrated PSU). On the other hand, there are many 450W rated PSUs that could run at 500W for many years without failure. So when the GPU says "700W PSU required," what they are really doing is protecting themselves from a buyer like yourself, who is oblivious to the vast differences in quality among PSUs. The typical bonehead consumer maneuver is to pick the biggest wattage rating for the lowest price, and there are brands placating to that approach. I would advise that you try to avoid this approach, and have a qualified 3rd party help you calculate peak power dissipation of the system and size the PSU accordingly, selecting from among the known great quality PSUs available.

Consider:
The R9 280, is configured not to exceed a power envelope of approximately 250W at stock clocks. An i5, even with VRM losses accounted for rarely exceeds 80-90W power dissipation (unless it's a K model overclocked). The remainder of the system (south bridge/controllers/USB/sound/RAM/Drives etc) is typically ~20-50W depending on system configuration. If you do the math here, you might realize that a 450W PSU that can actually deliver 450W is actually LARGER than necessary for an i5+R9 280 build. You'll find that many professionally designed systems are using 450W PSUs with flagship GPUs like the GTX780Ti. This is perfectly fine as long as the system builder has correctly calculated the peak power dissipation of the machine as configured and selected a PSU that is actually designed to be able to deliver it's label ratings with ease.

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If your goal is to win the bench-marking challenge, scrape together the cheapest MOBO/CPU/RAM/Case/PSU/HD you can and blow the whole budget on a GTX780Ti. You'll win nearly any gaming "benchmark" with this approach because almost all game-specific FPS benchmarks use a single player sequence with low compute overhead to firmly plant the bottleneck on the GPU.

If your goal is to build the better gaming machine for real world gaming and long term reliability, you're going to have to loose the challenge, and choose a good strong i5 CPU to handle the high compute workloads that only present themselves in real-world multi-player conditions (not repeatable for bench-marking sequences), and then pair that i5 with a middle-tier GPU in order to afford to build the rest of the system from quality parts.
 

The_Ma5ter

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Ok. That made a lot of sense. My goal is to make the best build possible under $1000 that can handle origin or steam games such as csgo with the highest fps and best graphics possible. If possible, I want my build to last at least 5 years without the need to upgrade anything major. That is my goal. If i change my cpu to an intel core, then it will not be compatible with things like my current motherboard and other stuff. Is it possible for you (since you seem to know alot more about compatibility and the true power of cpus and gpus) to show me a build like the one you're talking about. I changed my build a little from the last time and chose a different PSU. Linustechtips recommended the ssd that I have but if you know of a better one I am willing to try it. Thanks for helping me learn a lot of this stuff!

Also, the charts you listed kind of made sense to me. Basically, the more gflops the better right?
 

mdocod

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The GP/s, GT/s, GFLOPs, and VRAM Bandwith are all part of the equation, but always keep in mind that the "specification" is a theoretical number, real world workloads never hit these theoretical maximums for many complex reasons. Kepler and maxwell both tend to run closer to the theoretical numbers than GCN, so an nvidia card with slightly lower raw theoretical specifications will often perform on par with an AMD card with slightly higher, but this discrepancy can vary depending on many conditions.

Perhaps one of the best examples of this would be the GTX750Ti and the R7 260X. If you look at the wiki charts, you'll see that the 260X has significantly higher theoretical GFLOPs, and slightly higher theoretical GT/s, VRAM bandwidth and GP/s. However, in the real world, the GTX750Ti tends to out perform the 260X slightly. This is because the maxwell architecture is a more mature, more refined architecture that runs real world workloads closer to it's theoretical capabilities. In this example, the card with lower theoretical specification is a stronger performer. Keep this in mind when comparing cards. If you're unsure about how the performance of a card might stack up, just do a google search of the model number of the card with the word "review" in it. You'll undoubtedly find many great reviews (including those here at tomshardware) with the card in question stacked up against cards in a similar class in many gaming benchmarks.

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With $1000 to spend on an all around great gaming PC:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($198.98 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Arctic Cooling Freezer i11 74.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($23.98 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock H97 PERFORMANCE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($86.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Micro Center)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($53.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 760 2GB TWIN FROZR Video Card ($234.99 @ Micro Center)
Case: Thermaltake Versa H22 Window ATX Mid Tower Case ($57.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Rosewill Capstone 450W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($102.98 @ Newegg)
Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link TL-WN851ND 802.11b/g/n PCI Wi-Fi Adapter ($22.66 @ Amazon)
Total: $1016.52
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-08 06:37 EDT-0400

Something like the above would be great.

Most system builders like to start with the GPU and work there way around it, trying to shoehorn in a way to achieve a particular GPU. I believe this approach to be backwards because it is the render workload that has the most adjust-ability, and thus, the GPU can vary significantly and the build will still be fantastic. The build above will play games well whether it has an R7 250X running with medium settings at 720P, or a GTX780 running high/ultra settings at 1440P. GPUs ~$150-250 like the GTX760 chosen above tend to be well suited to 1080P gaming with high-ultra settings. When designing a machine around a particular budget and objective I have a list of essentials I feel are more important than visual quality settings that I include first. In this case, those essentials at this budget are an SSD, i5, good onboard sound, easy to work with case with USB 3.0 ports and 2.5" drive mounting capabilities, OS costs included in budget, WIFI, etc. After all the boxes have been checked we are left with something like the GTX760 or R9 280 as fitting the budget. Either would be a fantastic choice. If you don't mind loosing the mechanical drive (this can always be added later), the build could fit an R9 280X instead.

Best of luck with the build,
Eric
 

logainofhades

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The USB's in the back of the motherboard will connect to any USB device you need.
 

SuperAdithya

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.Now that's a good build. I recommend this to the OP.


 

logainofhades

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Build without SSD, and better GPU.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($187.93 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock H97 PRO4 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($88.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($72.00 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($56.99 @ Micro Center)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon R9 290 4GB PCS+ Video Card ($348.50 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Micro Center)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($74.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($16.98 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($87.99 @ Newegg)
Other: Wireless Network Adapters ($30.00)
Total: $1014.35
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-08 11:33 EDT-0400
 
Solution

RazerZ

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Swap the cpu for a 4570 and this build will be golden.
 

logainofhades

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The 4570 and 4460 run the same clock speed. The 4460 is a haswell refresh. ;)
 

RazerZ

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The 4570 has a turbo boost clock speed at 3.6Ghz while the 4460 has a turbo boost clock speed at 3.4 Ghz ;)
 

The_Ma5ter

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I'm going to probably have a discussion about whose build is better, logainofhades or mdocod's build. Whoever's build is chosen will get the best answer and I'll probably choose that as my build.
 

RazerZ

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For gaming, Logain's build would be better.