Is GTX900 series another stunt by Nvidia?

MisterFuuManchu · Sep 9, 2014

I've read a lot of people say that the new 900 series is a replay of the 600 series where Nvidia released cheap cards and then a couple months later rolled out the better 700 series cards.
The rumoured price for the 980 (I think) is $499. I was planning on waiting until January to upgrade my GTX 580, but I found out a few days ago that it's failing. There are artifacts and when I plug it into my system, it just causes my computer to shutdown and reboot in an endless loop.
Now I'm running an old 7800 from a Dell XPS400 pc I had laying around. It works but I wanted to be able to play GTA V and other newer games at least on high.
So should I get a 770 or 780? Or wait for 900?

turkey3_scratch · Sep 9, 2014

Wait for the 900 because even if you don't buy a 900 the 700 prices will drop a tad.

AlanWakeFan · Sep 9, 2014

They are supposed to be releasing some 900 series September 19th. If you can wait til then You can read the reviews & decide if it's worth it. If not, the 770 & 780 are still great cards & can run any games.

VincentP · Sep 9, 2014

Both AMD and Nvidia have used a similar strategy.
They bring new technology to market at a high price and then the next release is the same technology with tweaked performance for a lower price.
I guess you could call it a refresh.

From AMD, the HD 5000 series was new and the HD 6000 series was the refresh.
They introduced new technology again with the HD 7000 series and then tweaked this for most of the R7 and R9 200 series cards.
They did introduce a few new cards with the R9 290X, R9 290, R9 285 and R7 260X.

From Nvidia, the GeForce 400 series was new technology and the 500 series was the refresh.
They introduced new technology again with the 600 series and then tweaked this for most of the 700 series cards.
They did introduce new cards with the Titan Black, Titan, GTX 780, GTX 750 Ti and GTX 750.

There is always something better around the corner.
If you find the performance you are getting from your current card is not adequate, you will find the GTX 770 is roughly a 40% improvement over your current card and the GTX 780 is 20% better than that.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-770-gk104-review,3519-8.html
The R9 290 is also a great option if you are open to AMD since it is cheaper than the GTX 780 and faster in many situations, particularly at higher resolutions.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290_review_benchmarks,24.html

The new cards from Nvidia aren't that impressive from the leaked benchmarks.
The GTX 970 is similar to the GTX 780 and the GTX 980 is similar to the GTX 780 Ti.
They will use less power than the card they replace and hopefully a lower price.
This would then push down the price of GTX 700 series and the AMD cards.
Of course, AMD will have its next series of cards in the pipeline as well which will then push the GTX 900 series down in price and probably cause them to respond with another refresh series before the Pascal GPUs are ready.

mapesdhs · Sep 9, 2014

As I've posted elsewhere, whether or not 700 prices will drop depends on how stores control their stock levels.
In the past, supplies of older cards have been allowed to dwindle before newer products come online, which
means prices didn't really drop at all, or often various specific models were just not available anymore. It may
well be that after the main Maxwell launch, the best place for a 700-series bargain is eBay, not normal stores,
though that depends as always on who will be bidding and how much they're prepared to pay (could be that
prices of used 780 Tis remain high because of demand unrelated to gaming).

Performance-wise though, the 900 series atm don't sound like they'll be that interesting at all. Probably more
interesting wrt power consumption, heat & noise, like the 750 Ti was.

Btw, I've benchmarked the 580 to death (I have loads of them), adding a 2nd one SLI would be quicker
than a 780, and quite cheap, only limited if your card is 1.5GB (I bought 3GB versions). Note that I have lots
of 3DMark results aswell for the various cards I've tested, but haven't yet created pages for Vantage, 11 & 13.
PM me if you'd like any example links for these, tested with 580/SLI, etc.

Ian.

MisterFuuManchu · Sep 9, 2014

mapesdhs :

I was really thinking of SLI-ing my GTX580. I have an RV03 so two 580s would definitely stay cool, especially if it's the reference models. The only issue I've seen people come across is bad scaling or whatever the correct term is.
But like I said in the original post, my 580 is failing. There are artifacts, only 1 dvi output works (haven't tried mini hdmi), and when I install it in my computer, it causes my pc to go into an endless reboot. I put new thermal paste but it didn't help. I didn't want to bake it because that's just a temporary fix from what I've read.

mapesdhs · Sep 9, 2014

The scaling actually works very well, or at least that's what I've found. Main problem with reference 580s
is they're rather loud under load, especially if there isn't an empty slot between then for good cooling.
I'm using an ASUS M4E, so the tri-slot spacing is perfect.

Bummer that your 580 is dying. Not worth getting a 2nd for SLI in that case I guess. In terms of replacing it,
a 770 or 780 would be a good speedup, but I wouldn't buy anything less than a 770 or else the speedup
wouldn't be that much in many cases.

Earlier posters are right though, best to wait for the Maxwell launch if you can, as 700 card prices should
drop to some extent, even if not by much. Or of course hunt on eBay, ya never know. I bagged some 580s
for good prices in recent months as people upgraded to 700 cards (including half a dozen MSI 580 3GB L.X.
editions, stock 832MHz, they run at 950+ no problem; my AE system has four of them), so hopefully the 900
release will mean people start dumping 700 cards in the same way.

How urgent is your need? Can you wait a couple of weeks? Can you use some other card you already have
in the meantime if need be, even just as a basic display?

Ian.

MisterFuuManchu · Sep 10, 2014

mapesdhs :

Yeah I really enjoyed my 580 and was going to get another one originally until I found out it was messed up.
I'm not in any rush to upgrade, my 7800 is good enough for the games I play (LoL, Tropico 3, Minecraft, CA...).
I was planning on getting a 900 card but would probably wait for prices to drop or just a used one on eBay or something.

mapesdhs · Sep 10, 2014

In that case best to wait for Maxwell, see what happens with the pricing of older cards, or who knows,
maybe the newer models will look more attractive if their power consumption is a lot better (could be,
for example, that the higher initial cost of a Maxwell will pay for itself in the medium/long term via lower
power consumption vs. - say - a couple of 3GB 580s SLI). Note that 1.5GB 580s can be really cheap,
but I don't think they're a wise purchase now given the VRAM limit.

My gaming PC has two 3GB 580s SLI. It's certainly quick, and the cost was excellent at the time (the
two GPUs combined cost 270 UKP total), faster than a 780 and a lot cheaper. However, it definitely
makes more noise than a single newer card, and for sure uses a lot more power. I couldn't afford a new
780 back then though, so it was the best choice for me. Likewise, after Maxwell is out, unless the
pricing is favourable (which is unlikely), I'll probably just look for two used 780 Tis as my next upgrade.
I can sell the 580s as CUDA monsters for AE (each card is faster than a 780 for CUDA; combined, they're
quicker than a Titan for AE), help cover the cost.

But yes, wait for Maxwell, see what happens. Keep an eye on seller sites, you might see some of them
doing good dealers on older cards to clear out stock. Will vary hugely by seller though. Some will get
rid of their older stock well in advance, others may end up with unsold units by pure chance, so hunt
around.

Btw, I've benched two 7970s, and at times they come close to three 580s (varies strongly by game,
resolution, etc.), actually better for Firestrike, though I was surprised they were so loud. One thing
though, standard-res DX9 CF was very broken performance-wise even with the latest drivers.

Ian.

PS. Only down side of buying used of course is warranty issues. At least with buying a new 900 card
you'd have a proper warranty. Rough guide: 780 Ti would be 2x faster than a 580 for general gaming.
Bare this in mind if reviews show a new 900 model is actually slower than a 780 Ti.

MisterFuuManchu · Sep 10, 2014

mapesdhs :

In that case best to wait for Maxwell, see what happens with the pricing of older cards, or who knows,
maybe the newer models will look more attractive if their power consumption is a lot better (could be,
for example, that the higher initial cost of a Maxwell will pay for itself in the medium/long term via lower
power consumption vs. - say - a couple of 3GB 580s SLI). Note that 1.5GB 580s can be really cheap,
but I don't think they're a wise purchase now given the VRAM limit.

My gaming PC has two 3GB 580s SLI. It's certainly quick, and the cost was excellent at the time (the
two GPUs combined cost 270 UKP total), faster than a 780 and a lot cheaper. However, it definitely
makes more noise than a single newer card, and for sure uses a lot more power. I couldn't afford a new
780 back then though, so it was the best choice for me. Likewise, after Maxwell is out, unless the
pricing is favourable (which is unlikely), I'll probably just look for two used 780 Tis as my next upgrade.
I can sell the 580s as CUDA monsters for AE (each card is faster than a 780 for CUDA; combined, they're
quicker than a Titan for AE), help cover the cost.

But yes, wait for Maxwell, see what happens. Keep an eye on seller sites, you might see some of them
doing good dealers on older cards to clear out stock. Will vary hugely by seller though. Some will get
rid of their older stock well in advance, others may end up with unsold units by pure chance, so hunt
around.

Btw, I've benched two 7970s, and at times they come close to three 580s (varies strongly by game,
resolution, etc.), actually better for Firestrike, though I was surprised they were so loud. One thing
though, standard-res DX9 CF was very broken performance-wise even with the latest drivers.

Ian.

PS. Only down side of buying used of course is warranty issues. At least with buying a new 900 card
you'd have a proper warranty. Rough guide: 780 Ti would be 2x faster than a 580 for general gaming.
Bare this in mind if reviews show a new 900 model is actually slower than a 780 Ti.

I bought my 580 used and it worked great for almost 3 years. I also bought some other parts used so that's no problem to me.
Maybe I'll just look for the Tis when Maxwell comes out then. If they're around the same price I'd probably just go with Maxwell, and probably a used one too lol.

mapesdhs · Sep 10, 2014

That's more or less my plan too.

Ian.

MisterFuuManchu · Sep 10, 2014

mapesdhs :

I don't know the legitimacy of this article but...

http://www.kdramastars.com/articles/36520/20140910/gtx-900-series-release-date.htm

"Kitguru has confirmed that Gigabyte technology has announced the GTX 900 series release date and that the GTX 980, 970 and 960 would be released this October 2014."

mapesdhs · Sep 10, 2014

All sorts of rumours flying around atm. Best to wait until launch & get the facts. I don't see the point of
basing decisions on unsusbstantiated rumours beforehand. Besides, until they do properly launch, we
won't know the real-world pricing, and how it affects older products (if at all).

Ian.

MisterFuuManchu · Sep 10, 2014

mapesdhs :

Agreed. I find it a bit hard to believe that kdrama site now that I think about it...I mean it's a site about K-Pop dramas, why are they even reporting on Nvidia? XD

renz496 · Sep 10, 2014

Another stunt or not nvidia have to go with what benefit them the most. Some people might not like the fact that nvidia are going to sell their 'mid range' chip as a high end part but most likely people that are complaining about this are in the minority. I myself don't really like it either but nvidia is no charity company and they have no obligation to sell their upcoming maxwell at mid range price despite the spec making it look line one.

Also even if nvidia able to come up with their big maxwell early I don't think nvidia will have enough of them to sell them as a gaming card. Just like GK110 nvidia most likely going to cater their pro market first.

Douglas Hamilton · Sep 16, 2014

I know about the 800ms but where are the 800 series?

renz496 · Sep 16, 2014

^ nvidia decides to name them as 900 series. i heard because nvidia wants second generation maxwell on the same series for both desktop and mobile.

MisterFuuManchu · Sep 16, 2014

renz496 :

Douglas Hamilton :

Nvidia is skipping them I think.

MisterFuuManchu · Sep 16, 2014

renz496 :

I'll probably just end up getting a 970 or 980. Then when they release the newer ones maybe I'll SLI them or something. I've heard the newer Nvidia cards have been scaling better in games.

renz496 · Sep 16, 2014

MisterFuuManchu :

the reason i heard was because nvidia doesn't want consumer to get confused which is which second generation maxwell is. maybe they don't want customer to think only mobile getting new parts while the desktop part still using old part since it share 800 series naming. and mobile parts naming are total disaster. idk if it was entirely nvidia fault or they share the blame with OEM. for example 820M is fermi based. and we know fermi is from 400/500 series era. OEM most likely don't want to use 400/500 suffix because it makes it look old. and nvidia has mention in the past that OEM force them to play the rename game because OEM wants new name each year regardless there are new hardware are not.

renz496 · Sep 16, 2014

MisterFuuManchu :

renz496 :

I'll probably just end up getting a 970 or 980. Then when they release the newer ones maybe I'll SLI them or something. I've heard the newer Nvidia cards have been scaling better in games.

maybe i will wait for DX12 full spec before getting a new card. for now my 660 should suffice.

Douglas Hamilton · Sep 17, 2014

renz496 :

Silly nvidia.

Ramatis · Sep 18, 2014

MisterFuuManchu :

Friend,

I recommend you test the Nvidia card into another system before buy a new card. The problem could be the MOBO's video controller. I had similar problem, change my graphic card, but cause was the Gigabyte Mobo. Happened two times, on the same model of Mobo. You have a great card.

VincentP · Sep 18, 2014

Ramatis :

There is no "video controller" on the motherboard.
Some computers have integrated graphics on the motherboard, but this is disabled when you insert a discrete graphics card.
Often this integrated graphics solution is now built directly into the processor and again is disabled once you insert a discrete graphics card.

There could be an issue with the motherboard or power supply to cause this issue. The working 7800 rules out most of these problems, although the GTX 580 probably does use more power.

VincentP · Sep 18, 2014

The specifications I found suggest the 9800 GT has a maximum power draw of 85W with one 6-pin PCI-E power connector required and the GTX 580 has maximum power draw of 244W with one 6-pin and one 8-pine PCI-E power connector required. This means the GTX 580 puts significantly more load on the power supply and that the power supply could well be the problem rather than the graphics card.

Is GTX900 series another stunt by Nvidia?

Distinguished

Expert

Honorable

Splendid

Distinguished

Distinguished

Distinguished

Distinguished

Distinguished

Distinguished

Distinguished

Distinguished

Distinguished

Distinguished

Champion

Reputable

Champion

Distinguished

Distinguished

Champion

Champion

Reputable

Honorable

Splendid

Splendid

Share this page