Hyper 212 Evo

1. The Hyper 212 is a great budget CPU cooler ..... not a great cooler ..... but a great budget cooler. As such, the TIM is not going to make all that much of a difference. I use either Shin Etsu or Gelid Extreme.

Shin Etsu ties with Artic Silver 5 for 1st place here:

http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=150&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=12

Arctic Silver 5 Polysynthetic Thermal Compound (4) = 37.55°C A+
Shin-Etsu MicroSi G751 (0) Aluminum Oxide Moderate 37.55°C A+

(0) No Curing Time or Special Application Suggested
(4) Arctic Silver 5 Application Instructions (up to 200-hours recommended curing time)

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So why not AS5 you might ask ?

1. It's $2-3 more than Shin Etsu

2. AS5 takes 200 hours to cure.... at 30 hours of usage per week, that's almost 7 weeks. I want the TIM cured before starting OC'ing and don't wanna wait for my own, let alone someone else's box sit on the test bed for that long.

3. http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm

Arctic Silver 5 was formulated to conduct heat, not electricity.
(While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver 5 should be kept away from electrical traces, pins, and leads. While it is not electrically conductive, the compound is very slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it bridges two close-proximity electrical paths.)

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2. Fans should blow to the rear of the case, not up.... you lose about 2 C blowing up.

3. Application method varies by:

a) what it is being applied to .... CPUs, GPUs, VRAM, VRMs, , etc
b) what type of cooler.... not every method works well with every type.... read the article here:
http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=170&Itemid=38

Call it budget if you will, but any air cooler that keeps a CPU sufficiently cool - regardless of price is a great cooler - I've used well over a hundred of them and more of the 212 Plus's and all on higher end builds 2500K and up, had one on my 2500K 4.8 24/7, another on my IB 3570K at 4.7 24/7, have one on a 4770K running 4.6...yes you can spend much more on a Phantek, a Noctua or even a V8, but for most it's not needed as long as they have good ventilation....SO while budget, pricewise, it's still a Great cooler, it and the predecessor 212 Plus are the 2 biggest sellers at the Egg (and have been) and are also the best rated two CPU coolers. I've used most all of the 'better' air coolers on the market, and by far, the best for the money is the EVO

A stock cooler keeps a CPU "sufficiently cool", a Hyper 212 does better and allows some OC'ing. A Phanteks or Noc will give you an extra 7-10C.

As for the V8 ....poor cooler w/ a ridiculous price, just bling bling for the youngins ..... barely eeks out 1C over the 212 for an extra $70



I was in no way knocking the 212..... My point is one of balance .... if ya not "sweating" 7 - 10C you'd get from a better cooler, I certainly wouldn't be sweating the1C temp differences from TIMs.

Basically it's about the ROI. Look at that 80 way test.... from AS5s / Shin Etsu's best 37.55, you have to go back thru 2 pages of data to get a TIM that's 1C worse..... which is the "middle of the road" mark...... So here's ya choices.....

Spend $9 for AS5 .... almost a third of the cooler cost for 1C improvement outta ..... that's $9 per degree improvement
Spend $30 for 7 - 10C ... thats $3.52 (average) per degree improvement

Again, nothing wrong with the Hyper 212 but I find the situation comparable to looking at what SSD to buy for $120 to improve gaming performance on a build with a planned 265X .... Nothing wrong with the 265x but if you are trying to improve gaming performance, spending that $120 on a better GFX card will have a much bigger ROI than getting a SSD

OTOH, I have just done my 3rd MoBo replacement where Hyper 212 users cracked / warpred or otherwise damaged their MoBos from putting them on too tight..... a stop mechanism would go along way towards helping 1st timers. I took the 212 off .... he broke it doing original build and have it sitting here somewhere.... put it on Craigs list for $15, no takers so will save for next budget build. BTW that doesn't count the ones where just loosening the hold down screws got us booting again.

When user asks about "improving performance" with a better TIM, I'd think it's important point out that gains would be minimal and that if he wants to do anything significant, they're not going to find it in a TIM. When you have gone as far as you can go with the cooler options, only then do I think it's time to see if ya can pick up another 1c from a better TIM.

Yes, that's why I said the stock thermal compound would be fine...then mentioned I like AS which I do and keep it around in the large tubes, when I do a build, that way I always know what on there, it's just an option if one chooses to take that route. As far as the V8, it's a great cooler, I've got one and love it, like any cooler it's much better if you actually work with it, you can go on the net and find good reviews and bad reviews about any component, going hands on with a variety of components is the best way to actually find out how things actually do, rather than reading about them.

I have done the V8, hence the youngins comment, ..... was for my youngest son's friend..... swapped all the case fans out for LED versions too. Was not impressed, like the older one better. It was quite a bit better cooling wise but noisy as hell .... not quite 100i loud but easily the loudest air cooler I have ever installed. The old one had mixed reviews much again like the 100i, never seen a good review of the new model from performance or build quality perspective but did see it win a design award or two based upon aesthetics. It's the very aesthetic design that interferes with it's performance. But it's all about meeting the user's goals ....aesthetics is no less a valid concern than performance..... and it does look cool ..... noise, aesthetics and performance are the big 3 areas of concern ..... nothing wins all 3 categories, some users are just more interested in oen than the others and that's where the V8 finds its niche

I have seen variations of 0.5 - 1.5C in mountings but pretty much my experience has mirrored most reviews .... I have never been able to pick up 7+C by "working with" a cooler.

I didn't take an issue with your TIM comments at all .... what I responded to was your defense of the 212 as if I has somehow dissing it .... I wasn't.

Call it budget if you will, but any air cooler that keeps a CPU sufficiently cool - regardless of price is a great cooler - I've used well over a hundred of them and more of the 212 Plus's and all on higher end build....

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I have no issue with the selection of the Hyper 212 ..... I use it all the time in $1200 and under systems. But tossing the Hyper 212's included TIM and spending 1/3 the cost for alternate TIM, is like tossing the free tie ya get with a $199 suit and buying a $65 designer tie .... it's still gonna look like a $199 suit.

And BTW, I am perfectly fine with $199 suits.

One of the reasons on the V8 is that it's not the same as the prior V6 or V8, it's size in large part comes from utilizing a vapor chamber and large fans, this is one of the first to utilize the baseplate chamber technology that is more common on GPUs. That's also a reason for the higher price, anytime new tech is introduced as this was, the cost is higher from the R&D that went into attempting something 'newer', CM used the same 'basic' vapor chamber approach with the TPC 812 back in early 2012

Form a logistics standpoint..... I think the horizontal vapor idea was not well thought out .... thinking of how vapor chambers work, stealing heat from the change in liquid from a gaseous to liquid phase, I couldn't help but wonder how the how the condensed liquid would return to the heat source

Well everyone has an opinion, I myself look forward to open minded thinking and innovation in technology, and like to try the new things and learn more about them

Everyone has an opinion on evolution, vaccinations, cold fusion and global warming but that doesn't change the historical data record or the scienctific principles involved which are inviolate. The science behind evaporative cooling has been well known since the time of the Egyption Pharohs . Ben Franklin conducted experiments using it, Michael Faraday demonstrated it and Will Carrier invented modern day air conditioning based upon its principals at the turn of the 20th century.

The amount of heat that it takes to bring a liquid to a gas rises linearly .... more heat = more temp until you reach the phase change temperature, where the liquid continues to absorb large amounts of heat while temperature remains constant. That energy is absorbed until there is enough to make the molecules break free of their liquid form and transition to a gas. It's that phase change cycling that makes evaporative cooling so effective as anyone who has ever sprayed water mist on themselves on a hot day has observed.

In a CPU cooler, the liquid in contact with the base plate is gasified and and rises to the top where it is cooled by the fins. "Gravity" takes the condensed liquid back to the base plate. Coolers generally come with installation instructions which instruct the user to install the cooler in a certain orientation for this reason ... to optimize the return of the condensed liquid to the base plate based upon the orientation of of the heat pipes.

When designing mechanical refrigeration systems and building cooling, this is a primary design consideration to insure the greatest thermodynamic and power efficiency out of the systems we are designing. So, when the looking at the image below, I immediately observed that the condensed liquid has to follow a quite arduous, and gravity defying path to get back to the base plate. If other design concepts were incorporated to overcome this, they were not evident in the image.



Like most people I aspire to learn new things every day, like to try new things and avidly research new technologies. But, part of "learning" is using the education and experience already under your belt and when looking at the V8's design, it went against much of what I had been taught and observed throughout my career about evaporative cooling systems. While innovative, it goes against several primary design concepts held dear by the design professions.

But then again, the Wright Brothers ignored accepted design concepts and eventually "defied gravity". So while I didn't immediately write the V8 off , I was skeptical and waited to see how it would perform since it had a unique look and very good memory clearance. Looking at that performance, questions to be asked were .....

-Was it worth $75 for an extra 1-3C over the Hyper 212 ?

-Was there anything to offset the 5 -6 C deficit compared to the cheaper Noc (-$25) and Phanteks (-$35) offerings ?

-Was the additional memory clearance compensate for the build quality and added installation difficulty ?

-Was their anything that offset the near H100i noise levels .... more than twice as loud as PH-TC14-PE, DH-14 or Silver Arrow ?

-Was there anything about the aesthetics that offset all of the above ?

For me, the answer was NO to all 5. If someone says YES to question 5, and NO to the other 4, if they weigh the value of the last greater than the other 4, that's a perfectly sound choice.

My approach to new things is based upon my own goals and while aesthetics is a factor in "my choice", it's minor. I like to learn all I can about something, examine whether the design claims make sense based upon known design principles, and then make an "educated decision". So, while very interested in new things, the consideration of such takes into consideration that:

.... open minded thinking does not include denying scientific principals.... gravity isn't an option, it's a law
.... innovation is not always a success
.... paying more to get less with regard to my own personal goals is the type of learning experience, I would rather avoid. Don't need to put my hand on a hot stove to learn that I am going to get burned.

Thought you said you had experience with these....if so I'd guess you didn't take any time with it all as your 'points' don't add up. The first on temps are both off, as far as my experience and using the V* on my different systems as well as client builds, where on all it averaged 9-10 degrees better than the EVO, and in sperate testings on different rigs it also beat out the Phanteks and the Noctua (14 anyway). Noise levels aren't that bad (guessing you looked at specs in your googling), when it ramps up under very heavy load you can hear it some, no more obnoxious than an EVO or many other air coolers and with a little care and PM it's even less. I also hear Phanteks, Noctuas and others when they are ramped up in similar loads. Installation can be a bit of a chore depending on the motherboard (primarily around the heatsinks away from the DRAM slots (two mounting points which is pretty easily relieved, but has yet to take me more than about 5 extra minutes, they conveniently add a small wrench for tightening things down. DRAM clearance is fine. As far as aesthetics, it's great, and since there's nothing to 'offset' from, guess that make it even better ....and for any interested, the Egg has had them on specials about once a month or (providing a $20 rebate card at the moment) or $5 more than Noctua D14 mentioned which is also shown as on sale at $75, the Phantek also has a rebate of $10 bring it down to $65 (or $15 less).

And as I mentioned before, ALL are entitled to their own opinion, since this is part of my systems business I like to see and experiment with new products, especially those clients ask about, and I know I'm going to get burned on products, it's just a part of business...one of the easiest ways to get burned is to base buying decisions totally on product reviews, I got over that years and years ago...most all product reviews on new releases are based on products provided to sites, publications, etc free of charge and are carefully checked before being sent out. Places doing the reviews always tend to look for high points of products and tend to stress them and maybe touch on negatives, but primarily work the highlights....and for good reason, generally whoever sent the product out also pays for advertising space where they send products....and if a place trashes a product, they could see the advertising $s disappear. Also may reviews are done by people who simply don't know systems and individual components. Oft times you may only see 1, 2, or 3 reviews on a very iffy product and even then they can be decent reviews as the products are sent to a very sites that are at least seli-loyal to a manufacturer....then too there are some products that simply don't get sent out for reviews at all - The AMD 9590 is a good example - none sent out for review at all.....and for good reason, it was stomped by a stock 4770K and cost well over twice as much at the release.

Enough for me, I'll be bowing out of this thread. Will be off to help others

I didn't test a Hyper 212 in the same exact system as the V8 GTS so I wouldn't venture to guess how the two would compare to one another, except by comparing A to B and B to C. In instances where I have tested multiple coolers in the same build, the Phanteks, Silver Arrow, Noctua have managed 7 - 10C better than the 212.

Review site comparisons are always tough in that you can see two units tie as in the H110 and Noctua on one site, then the Noc lose to the Phanteks by 1C on another and then have the H100 beat the Phanteks on another by 3C. This is due to variations in testing methods, variations in case air flow, variations in mountings. But I can't recall reading a single review of the GTS that didn't either indicate that the "performance was disappointing" or directly comment that you can accomplish the same thing for about half the price.

From a business standpoint, I can understand the reasoning of having the customer buy a $99 cooler instead of a $30 one. My goal in helping a user get their machine built is to maximize the performance / price ratio, teach them to analyze available information and how to build their next machine w/o my help. Trying new things is certainly to be encouraged, but so is tempering the impulse to have the latest new gadget by using logic, education and experience to research and analyze manufacturer's claims before "buying into the hype". The V8 has it's purpose .... much like spinner rims on a car .... it adds an interesting "look", but it's not an investment one makes to make their car go faster.

Once again - you make no sense at all - or do business totally different than I do....what business sense can it make to have someone buy a $99 dollar cooler - that make no sense none at all...As mentioned have no idea how you do 'business - but for a build - I charge a flat fee as do most all builders I know, if you want to charge a markup on parts, that's your thing. For my fee, I help them choose the components and do the build....they buy/order the parts or have me do it for them.

Coolers are based on the needs and goals of the individual, i.e. what type of OC are they looking for and is it realistic, for most all systems a Hyper 212 EVO is plenty sufficient, even if you want to brand it as a 'budget' cooler, many people are snooty and look down on lower price components, no matter how good they are. If people are looking to OC higher than say 4.4-4.5 and depending on what their usage will be, then they may well need a better cooler than than an EVO, or they may just want a particular cooler...as long as it will meet their needs, then fine....that's the real fact a builder needs to look at, which is why I like to try different things whenever I can. As far as coolers go, it's a good idea to work with them, most people look around on the internet and read about how to do this or do that...like install a cooler. Me, I like to try different things, some coolers like more thermal compound than others, others like a very thin, small amount. Most people use the 'pea' method for applying TC/TIM, though the X method works well, three lines, manually spreading, etc. Same with DRAM different timings/voltages/CR/advanced timings, etc and to try the different sticks on different mobos and platforms, some lines of sticks don't work all that well with different platforms. Could go on and on, but experienced builders tend to take in and look at the little things and experiment to be able to provide the best for their clients...if you've got a V8 available, suggest you play with it and see what it can really do, rather than just just believing everything you read

I wouldn't think of charging anyone a markup, or charging them a flat fee. I make my living working < 20 hours a week as a consultant. In addition to donating part of my professional services, the rest of my time over the years has been offered to various non-profits as well as Little League, Travel Ball, Boy Scouts , mentoring engineering students, etc. In the PC arena we teach people how to build computers; we sit with them, go thru the process of how to select components, how to research the components, show them how to install the components, how to maintain the computer and how to troubleshoot. I would consider having a "repeat customer" a colossal failure. By the time their build is finished, they should be self sufficient and not have to come back again in 3-4 years.

We take special pains to ask why they want something, what they expect out of it and if they are going to get it. Some arrive with a "I want this thing" mindset and I go thru the "as long as you understand why you want it" speech .... "yes you can have this thing for $xx but you can get the same results for half the price, so if you are buying it for this or that reason, that's fine .... but if you are looking to convince yourself that your are going to get a performance return on your investment, then you are fooling yourself".

As for the 212, I have used it many times and, as I have said several times I have nothing bad to say about it. But again, it's all about expectations. So using the same adjective to describe a cooler that gets me 75C as one that gets me 85C is something I find inappropriate. They can't both be "great" no more than a 280x is as great as a 290x .... one has "great performance", one has "great performance for the money", that's not the same thing.

My approach to "learning" is a bit different. I don't feel that unless I do the experiment myself the data is invalid. When I go into court as an expert witness, I have to provide sources for my conclusions. If I come up with an answer that is in conflict w/ the 20 examples opposing counsel presents, my client loses. That's why we have schools and centers of higher education; so what others have learned can be passed down. It is certainly valuable for a student to conduct experiments, I had my students conduct experiments but when 1 person gets a result that no one else got, we don't have everyone else try and duplicate it, we try and find out where the 1 student went wrong.

Edison tested some 7,000 filaments before selecting one for his light bulb, I certainly wouldn't start out to do him one better by retesting all 7000 things he tried; I'd look at the properties of those that finished the highest, look for some commonality of properties narrow my focus. If I am searching for the best cooler, I am going to narrow my focus and perhaps experiment with the 90th percentile and not waste my time with the 50th. When looking for the best TIM, I looked at BMRs 80-way testing and I saw no need to play around with the top 40..... I looked at the top ten, looked at what sat in the upper echelon in a dozen or so other reviews and eliminated anything which was either conductive, capacitive or had curing headaches and tried several of the ones that were left. I can't tell ya which one is better because the variations between mounts differ as much as the two TIMs

In my profession, we build on the expertise of all those before us. John Roebling would never have been able to build the Brooklyn Bridge "by playing around and experimenting" with each of the technologies he used. If 20 people have conducted an experiment and all 20 have gotten the same result, then that's good enough for me. Where I will invest my time is when results are inconclusive. If xtremesystems does 5 water block mounts and gets delta Ts from 52.6 to 54.1, well then if I hit 53.9 I figure I'm pretty good. I'll try again in a year when I take the system down for maintenance and see if I can do better. Remounting and testing is a 2.5 hour effort and I just don't feel that is a productive use of my time.

One of those areas I have spent a lot of time is experimenting in water cooling where data is scarce and much of it based upon long outdated assumptions and finding that many WC "absolutes" are basically unsupported by test data using modern day componentry. And I remained unsure of these results until they were duplicated by other parties. The laws of physics and thermodynamics don't change from place to place ... except of course in Mr. Tipton's kitchen. If it "takes the entire grit-eating world 20 minutes" for water to soak into a grit, I am not going invest my time trying and get it done in 5 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZkbtP-t_D8