"4790k" What is the best way tweak voltage and load line calabration with the new rog z97 motherboards?
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mr91
September 13, 2014 3:59:25 PM
The manual voltage settings let you overvolt the chip to get a higher OC out of it. The optimal settings depend heavily on how lucky you are with your CPU selection. Some CPUs can clock quite high on stock voltage, some need voltage bumps far earlier, there is no such thing as "optimal", these must be dialed in manually.
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mr91
September 13, 2014 4:10:10 PM
mr91
September 13, 2014 4:24:08 PM
DubbleClick said:
For stock speeds, somewhere between 1.1 and 1.2v should be a starting point. Mine needs 1.135v and I consider myself fairly lucky.You got very lucky! I hope my chip is as good as yours...
I know the stock voltage for my 3570k is 1.8 v - Did Intel set a stock voltage for the 4790k?
" I've seen ranges from 1.1-1.3+ on the forums however I'm not sure what Intel's General Recommendation for the processor is...
I opened this thread to gain some knowledge on my future build and also help someone else that is getting very high temperatures because he set voltage to auto and under load it seems that he is getting higher than necessary and temperatures...
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mr91
September 13, 2014 4:47:41 PM
hunter315 said:
The manual voltage settings let you overvolt the chip to get a higher OC out of it. The optimal settings depend heavily on how lucky you are with your CPU selection. Some CPUs can clock quite high on stock voltage, some need voltage bumps far earlier, there is no such thing as "optimal", these must be dialed in manually.I certainly need to make my questions more clear lol
This is tricky because as you said each CPU is different and testing must be done to determine the optimal setting...
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mr91
September 13, 2014 7:04:43 PM
Tradesman1 said:
The voltage is going to vary both for the individual CPU and also from the mobo it's in, and many other things can factor in, which ROG mobo do you have. There's a few different approaches you can takeI ordered the Maximus VII IMPACT Z97 and the other OP has the VII HERO Z97.
" I'm assuming the Bios will be similar on both boards and I heard there are new features on the Z97 boards"
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1.3v? 1.8v? No way.
1.5v straight kills your chip in minutes, at 1.8v you probably just hear some little noise and then have your chip and possibly socket dead.
1.3 is the 'long term use' maximum for haswell, if you can cool it.
And there is no 'stock voltage for any chip. Each needs other amounts of voltage to run. I think the highest ive seen for the 4790k on stock speed was 1.2v, hence why I said between 1.1 and 1.2v.
I've been indeed quite lucky on my chip. I can reach 4.9ghz with 1.38v on a 4 vrm phase motherboard. I'm quite sure it would do 5ghz on 1.45v, but im not going to test that with my cooler and motherboard. It has all just been testing anyway, I run my chip at 4.4ghz on all cores. Anything above that isn't worth it to me, temperature*voltage/performance wise, yet.
About why you started this topic: Yes, a lot of motherboards with non updated bios versions heavily overvolt the 4790k on auto settings. My board on bios F1 would power a full 1.36-1.42v into my chip at stock. After getting F6, it gets me 1.156v under load and a bit more in idle (llc turned one) after speedtests, before going to 0.9-1.1 in idle. Thats a quite good behaviour, except for the high llc take.
So if you're worried about that, just manually set your voltage to the lowest possible that allows to boot and then add another 0.03v to be fully stable. If it boots at 1.15v, give it 1.18v until you install the OS and have time to tweak/flash the bios.
1.5v straight kills your chip in minutes, at 1.8v you probably just hear some little noise and then have your chip and possibly socket dead.
1.3 is the 'long term use' maximum for haswell, if you can cool it.
And there is no 'stock voltage for any chip. Each needs other amounts of voltage to run. I think the highest ive seen for the 4790k on stock speed was 1.2v, hence why I said between 1.1 and 1.2v.
I've been indeed quite lucky on my chip. I can reach 4.9ghz with 1.38v on a 4 vrm phase motherboard. I'm quite sure it would do 5ghz on 1.45v, but im not going to test that with my cooler and motherboard. It has all just been testing anyway, I run my chip at 4.4ghz on all cores. Anything above that isn't worth it to me, temperature*voltage/performance wise, yet.
About why you started this topic: Yes, a lot of motherboards with non updated bios versions heavily overvolt the 4790k on auto settings. My board on bios F1 would power a full 1.36-1.42v into my chip at stock. After getting F6, it gets me 1.156v under load and a bit more in idle (llc turned one) after speedtests, before going to 0.9-1.1 in idle. Thats a quite good behaviour, except for the high llc take.
So if you're worried about that, just manually set your voltage to the lowest possible that allows to boot and then add another 0.03v to be fully stable. If it boots at 1.15v, give it 1.18v until you install the OS and have time to tweak/flash the bios.
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mr91
September 13, 2014 7:19:49 PM
mr91
September 13, 2014 7:20:00 PM
Best solution
Make sure you have the latest BIOS, and with the system at default take screen shots of your BIOS settings.. Then just give the auto OC in the BIOS a try say to 4.2 or 4.4, and again take screen shots, that will let you see what all the OC changed and can try lowering voltages like the vCore (CPU), PLL (can normally be lowered a bit), etc
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mr91
September 14, 2014 6:12:05 AM
What about Load line calibration? "I'm assuming I should follow recommendations in the bios"
I'm aware the voltages fluctuate however I was under the impression that Intel suggested a maximum voltage for a particular CPU under load, the same JEDEC recommends 1.5 volts for their DDR standard.
I'm not sure why I thought that Intel's recommendation for the 3570k was 1.18v @ max load for stock speeds...
I'm aware the voltages fluctuate however I was under the impression that Intel suggested a maximum voltage for a particular CPU under load, the same JEDEC recommends 1.5 volts for their DDR standard.
I'm not sure why I thought that Intel's recommendation for the 3570k was 1.18v @ max load for stock speeds...
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clueless77
September 14, 2014 8:25:10 AM
DubbleClick said:
1.3v? 1.8v? No way.1.5v straight kills your chip in minutes, at 1.8v you probably just hear some little noise and then have your chip and possibly socket dead.
1.3 is the 'long term use' maximum for haswell, if you can cool it.
And there is no 'stock voltage for any chip. Each needs other amounts of voltage to run. I think the highest ive seen for the 4790k on stock speed was 1.2v, hence why I said between 1.1 and 1.2v.
I've been indeed quite lucky on my chip. I can reach 4.9ghz with 1.38v on a 4 vrm phase motherboard. I'm quite sure it would do 5ghz on 1.45v, but im not going to test that with my cooler and motherboard. It has all just been testing anyway, I run my chip at 4.4ghz on all cores. Anything above that isn't worth it to me, temperature*voltage/performance wise, yet.
About why you started this topic: Yes, a lot of motherboards with non updated bios versions heavily overvolt the 4790k on auto settings. My board on bios F1 would power a full 1.36-1.42v into my chip at stock. After getting F6, it gets me 1.156v under load and a bit more in idle (llc turned one) after speedtests, before going to 0.9-1.1 in idle. Thats a quite good behaviour, except for the high llc take.
So if you're worried about that, just manually set your voltage to the lowest possible that allows to boot and then add another 0.03v to be fully stable. If it boots at 1.15v, give it 1.18v until you install the OS and have time to tweak/flash the bios.
What's your cache ratio and cr voltage running at for that 4.9? 1:1 cpu/cr?
And yeah, stock voltage for mine is 1.06 and 1.20 at load/turbo.
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clueless77
September 14, 2014 9:07:47 AM
Ahh, I see, that's pretty damn good then. Experienced overclockers have a whole mess of benches with 1:1 ratios and 1:- ratios, and there's not really a significant increase or decrease in performance depending upon the size of the gap (around .7), but I think it's probably best to still try closing it as much as possible if the chip can handle it. From what I've been seeing, the cache ratio definitely has an impact upon all other factors when overclocking though and is probably why they suggest to mess with the cpu clocks before the cpu cache.
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mr91
September 14, 2014 9:49:44 AM
clueless77 said:
DubbleClick said:
1.3v? 1.8v? No way.1.5v straight kills your chip in minutes, at 1.8v you probably just hear some little noise and then have your chip and possibly socket dead.
1.3 is the 'long term use' maximum for haswell, if you can cool it.
And there is no 'stock voltage for any chip. Each needs other amounts of voltage to run. I think the highest ive seen for the 4790k on stock speed was 1.2v, hence why I said between 1.1 and 1.2v.
I've been indeed quite lucky on my chip. I can reach 4.9ghz with 1.38v on a 4 vrm phase motherboard. I'm quite sure it would do 5ghz on 1.45v, but im not going to test that with my cooler and motherboard. It has all just been testing anyway, I run my chip at 4.4ghz on all cores. Anything above that isn't worth it to me, temperature*voltage/performance wise, yet.
About why you started this topic: Yes, a lot of motherboards with non updated bios versions heavily overvolt the 4790k on auto settings. My board on bios F1 would power a full 1.36-1.42v into my chip at stock. After getting F6, it gets me 1.156v under load and a bit more in idle (llc turned one) after speedtests, before going to 0.9-1.1 in idle. Thats a quite good behaviour, except for the high llc take.
So if you're worried about that, just manually set your voltage to the lowest possible that allows to boot and then add another 0.03v to be fully stable. If it boots at 1.15v, give it 1.18v until you install the OS and have time to tweak/flash the bios.
What's your cache ratio and cr voltage running at for that 4.9? 1:1 cpu/cr?
And yeah, stock voltage for mine is 1.06 and 1.20 at load/turbo.
I was thinking that 1.06 to 1.20 would be the range for a chip like this.
" When cpu is set to voltage the voltage would go beyond 1.2 on the motherboards I've tested"
I have a friends with ROG motherboards and I find that they are generally lot more stable than my midrange gigabyte motherboard however I'm aware that there are many other factors such as luck in the cpu lottery and proper case and cooling...
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avidity
September 14, 2014 9:59:56 AM
I'm the one who was having high temperatures at idle: http://i.imgur.com/kMVx6ad.png
However BIOS show these temperatures: http://i.imgur.com/3pGSXg5.png
I'm using Auto settings for voltages: http://i.imgur.com/bknoJPu.png
After updating BIOS it seems that temperatures have lowered at 100% load: http://i.imgur.com/cbCPvOG.png
I'm using a Cooler Master: Hyper 212 EVO with Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste on an ASUS Maximus VII Hero and a Cooler Master HAF X case.
However BIOS show these temperatures: http://i.imgur.com/3pGSXg5.png
I'm using Auto settings for voltages: http://i.imgur.com/bknoJPu.png
After updating BIOS it seems that temperatures have lowered at 100% load: http://i.imgur.com/cbCPvOG.png
I'm using a Cooler Master: Hyper 212 EVO with Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste on an ASUS Maximus VII Hero and a Cooler Master HAF X case.
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mr91
September 14, 2014 10:03:14 AM
With my gigabyte and bad luck in the Silicon, I left my 3570k at stock, set the voltage to 1.18, load line calibration was set to normal to ensure my voltage doesn't jump around during load. My max temperatures are about 75 when using occt which is good for me...
I'm looking forward to my next build below are the specs, I'm just waiting for the motherboard to arrive...
Case: Corsair 380T
PSU: Corsair 860i
MB: Asus Maximus VII Impact z97
Ram: Corsair Vengence pro 16 gb
CPU: 4790k
Cooler: H 100i
VC: Asus 780 ti reference
Outlet with dedicated circuit for stable power
I'm going to play around with the stuff the rig, I hope I do well in the silcon lottery lol
I'm looking forward to my next build below are the specs, I'm just waiting for the motherboard to arrive...
Case: Corsair 380T
PSU: Corsair 860i
MB: Asus Maximus VII Impact z97
Ram: Corsair Vengence pro 16 gb
CPU: 4790k
Cooler: H 100i
VC: Asus 780 ti reference
Outlet with dedicated circuit for stable power
I'm going to play around with the stuff the rig, I hope I do well in the silcon lottery lol
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mr91
September 14, 2014 10:04:18 AM
avidity said:
I'm the one who was having high temperatures at idle: http://i.imgur.com/kMVx6ad.pngHowever BIOS show these temperatures: http://i.imgur.com/3pGSXg5.png
I'm using Auto settings for voltages: http://i.imgur.com/bknoJPu.png
After updating BIOS it seems that temperatures have lowered at 100% load: http://i.imgur.com/cbCPvOG.png
I'm using a Cooler Master: Hyper 212 EVO with Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste on an ASUS Maximus VII Hero and a Cooler Master HAF X case.
Please help this guy he updated his bios however he still has high temperatures...
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mr91
September 14, 2014 10:14:17 AM
Tradesman1 said:
Make sure you have the latest BIOS, and with the system at default take screen shots of your BIOS settings.. Then just give the auto OC in the BIOS a try say to 4.2 or 4.4, and again take screen shots, that will let you see what all the OC changed and can try lowering voltages like the vCore (CPU), PLL (can normally be lowered a bit), etcavidity said:
I'm the one who was having high temperatures at idle: http://i.imgur.com/kMVx6ad.pngHowever BIOS show these temperatures: http://i.imgur.com/3pGSXg5.png
I'm using Auto settings for voltages: http://i.imgur.com/bknoJPu.png
After updating BIOS it seems that temperatures have lowered at 100% load: http://i.imgur.com/cbCPvOG.png
I'm using a Cooler Master: Hyper 212 EVO with Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste on an ASUS Maximus VII Hero and a Cooler Master HAF X case.
looks like your vcore is high in occt.
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mr91
September 14, 2014 10:15:57 AM
avidity said:
I'm the one who was having high temperatures at idle: http://i.imgur.com/kMVx6ad.pngHowever BIOS show these temperatures: http://i.imgur.com/3pGSXg5.png
I'm using Auto settings for voltages: http://i.imgur.com/bknoJPu.png
After updating BIOS it seems that temperatures have lowered at 100% load: http://i.imgur.com/cbCPvOG.png
I'm using a Cooler Master: Hyper 212 EVO with Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste on an ASUS Maximus VII Hero and a Cooler Master HAF X case.
Core temp shows 1.2 and a bit which is okay but it's seem like your occt vcore is 1.8+
strange...
I would try to find the lowest voltage that keeps your cpu stable to lower the temps
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mr91 said:
clueless77 said:
DubbleClick said:
1.3v? 1.8v? No way.1.5v straight kills your chip in minutes, at 1.8v you probably just hear some little noise and then have your chip and possibly socket dead.
1.3 is the 'long term use' maximum for haswell, if you can cool it.
And there is no 'stock voltage for any chip. Each needs other amounts of voltage to run. I think the highest ive seen for the 4790k on stock speed was 1.2v, hence why I said between 1.1 and 1.2v.
I've been indeed quite lucky on my chip. I can reach 4.9ghz with 1.38v on a 4 vrm phase motherboard. I'm quite sure it would do 5ghz on 1.45v, but im not going to test that with my cooler and motherboard. It has all just been testing anyway, I run my chip at 4.4ghz on all cores. Anything above that isn't worth it to me, temperature*voltage/performance wise, yet.
About why you started this topic: Yes, a lot of motherboards with non updated bios versions heavily overvolt the 4790k on auto settings. My board on bios F1 would power a full 1.36-1.42v into my chip at stock. After getting F6, it gets me 1.156v under load and a bit more in idle (llc turned one) after speedtests, before going to 0.9-1.1 in idle. Thats a quite good behaviour, except for the high llc take.
So if you're worried about that, just manually set your voltage to the lowest possible that allows to boot and then add another 0.03v to be fully stable. If it boots at 1.15v, give it 1.18v until you install the OS and have time to tweak/flash the bios.
What's your cache ratio and cr voltage running at for that 4.9? 1:1 cpu/cr?
And yeah, stock voltage for mine is 1.06 and 1.20 at load/turbo.
I was thinking that 1.06 to 1.20 would be the range for a chip like this.
" When cpu is set to voltage the voltage would go beyond 1.2 on the motherboards I've tested"
I have a friends with ROG motherboards and I find that they are generally lot more stable than my midrange gigabyte motherboard however I'm aware that there are many other factors such as luck in the cpu lottery and proper case and cooling...
The motherboard has nothing to do with the voltage a cpu needs at a certain speed.
At most, it determines the required voltage on auto settings better than another one.
For example, my mid range board would give my cpu 1.36v with bios version F1.
After updating it to F6, it gives 1.156v. I need 1.154v to be fully stable with xmp enabled.
Now, the best motherboard would possibly give 1.154v instead of 1.156v. Change? Unnoticeable, no differences in anything. The voltage jump is far too small to do anything.
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mr91 said:
avidity said:
I'm the one who was having high temperatures at idle: http://i.imgur.com/kMVx6ad.pngHowever BIOS show these temperatures: http://i.imgur.com/3pGSXg5.png
I'm using Auto settings for voltages: http://i.imgur.com/bknoJPu.png
After updating BIOS it seems that temperatures have lowered at 100% load: http://i.imgur.com/cbCPvOG.png
I'm using a Cooler Master: Hyper 212 EVO with Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste on an ASUS Maximus VII Hero and a Cooler Master HAF X case.
Core temp shows 1.2 and a bit which is okay but it's seem like your occt vcore is 1.8+
strange...
I would try to find the lowest voltage that keeps your cpu stable to lower the temps
In occt his vcore is 1.27. It's the VID in occt that means cpu vcore. Vcore in occt means VCCIN, which is the input voltage to the integrated voltage regulator.
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mr91
September 14, 2014 11:12:02 AM
mr91
September 14, 2014 12:09:08 PM
DubbleClick said:
mr91 said:
clueless77 said:
DubbleClick said:
1.3v? 1.8v? No way.1.5v straight kills your chip in minutes, at 1.8v you probably just hear some little noise and then have your chip and possibly socket dead.
1.3 is the 'long term use' maximum for haswell, if you can cool it.
And there is no 'stock voltage for any chip. Each needs other amounts of voltage to run. I think the highest ive seen for the 4790k on stock speed was 1.2v, hence why I said between 1.1 and 1.2v.
I've been indeed quite lucky on my chip. I can reach 4.9ghz with 1.38v on a 4 vrm phase motherboard. I'm quite sure it would do 5ghz on 1.45v, but im not going to test that with my cooler and motherboard. It has all just been testing anyway, I run my chip at 4.4ghz on all cores. Anything above that isn't worth it to me, temperature*voltage/performance wise, yet.
About why you started this topic: Yes, a lot of motherboards with non updated bios versions heavily overvolt the 4790k on auto settings. My board on bios F1 would power a full 1.36-1.42v into my chip at stock. After getting F6, it gets me 1.156v under load and a bit more in idle (llc turned one) after speedtests, before going to 0.9-1.1 in idle. Thats a quite good behaviour, except for the high llc take.
So if you're worried about that, just manually set your voltage to the lowest possible that allows to boot and then add another 0.03v to be fully stable. If it boots at 1.15v, give it 1.18v until you install the OS and have time to tweak/flash the bios.
What's your cache ratio and cr voltage running at for that 4.9? 1:1 cpu/cr?
And yeah, stock voltage for mine is 1.06 and 1.20 at load/turbo.
I was thinking that 1.06 to 1.20 would be the range for a chip like this.
" When cpu is set to voltage the voltage would go beyond 1.2 on the motherboards I've tested"
I have a friends with ROG motherboards and I find that they are generally lot more stable than my midrange gigabyte motherboard however I'm aware that there are many other factors such as luck in the cpu lottery and proper case and cooling...
The motherboard has nothing to do with the voltage a cpu needs at a certain speed.
At most, it determines the required voltage on auto settings better than another one.
For example, my mid range board would give my cpu 1.36v with bios version F1.
After updating it to F6, it gives 1.156v. I need 1.154v to be fully stable with xmp enabled.
Now, the best motherboard would possibly give 1.154v instead of 1.156v. Change? Unnoticeable, no differences in anything. The voltage jump is far too small to do anything.
The voltage is needed to ensure stability however if you get a good chip it might require less voltage to be stable and use less power and create less heat.
I'm not sure if the integrated voltage regulator on the Haswell chips is game changer because most of my experience is with ivy bridge...
I'm hoping my auto on my new build however if not I will manually tweak settings until a good bios update comes along...
Finally Gigabyte is providing a decent bios for the z97 boards - In my opinion z97 boards some coming out with good bios because the z97 is very similar to the z87 and the board makers have had a long time to refine and tweak the boards.
My ud3h z77 isn't working very well when everything is set to auto and I've had lots of problems with it, I'm looking forward to switch back to Asus...
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mr91
September 14, 2014 1:35:13 PM
mr91
September 14, 2014 1:37:26 PM
DubbleClick said:
Most boards overvolting the 4790k is simply caused by the release date discrepancy between the 4790k and the board itself. Most boards were released before the 4790k, so compability was added later on.Did you notice a difference in your gtx 680 performance when you upgraded your system?
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mr91
September 14, 2014 2:07:27 PM
DubbleClick said:
Well, I was coming from a q6600@3.0ghz, so I did notice a pretty huge difference. Less so in games, as I don't really run any titles less than 10 years old, but a huge difference in general speed.I suggest you check out some modern titles some of them are really good!
Are you a video editor?
I just looked up your old processor and I noticed that Intel provided a vid voltage range.
Status End of Life
Launch Date Q1'07
Processor Number Q6600
# of Cores 4
Clock Speed 2.4 GHz
L2 Cache 8 MB
FSB Speed 1066 MHz
FSB Parity No
Instruction Set 64-bit
Embedded Options Available
No
Lithography 65 nm
Max TDP 105 W
VID Voltage Range 0.8500V-1.500V
Recommended Customer Price N/A
Datasheet Link
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I'm mainly programming and video editing, yes.
Not interested in modern games all that much, I gave Guild Wars 2 a shot but it turned out their delopers did an absolutely awful job at managing the game.
As for my q6600, I was running it on 3.0ghz with 1.375v vcore. I tried cranking up vcore to 1.5 and see if I could get 3.2 or 3.33 ghz stable, but it turned out I wouldn't even be able to boot. Bad luck. Whatever, good luck on my 4790k makes up for it.
Not interested in modern games all that much, I gave Guild Wars 2 a shot but it turned out their delopers did an absolutely awful job at managing the game.
As for my q6600, I was running it on 3.0ghz with 1.375v vcore. I tried cranking up vcore to 1.5 and see if I could get 3.2 or 3.33 ghz stable, but it turned out I wouldn't even be able to boot. Bad luck. Whatever, good luck on my 4790k makes up for it.
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mr91
September 14, 2014 7:50:17 PM
mr91
September 24, 2014 6:30:10 AM
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!