Looking for a non-IPS, 27 inch, 2560x1440 monitor

Hello all,

I'm looking for a new monitor.
Size: 27 inch or higher
Resolution: 2560x1440 or higher
Refresh rate: 60 Hz or higher
Panel type: Not IPS, PLS or AHVA

I have one candidate so far, the Asus ROG PG278Q.
My biggest concern with this monitor is that it has a single display input. A second displayport input would be great, or even a dual-link DVI input.
I'm keen to see what else might be available.

The reason for this is that I have an IPS monitor that fits the rest of these criteria already. The colours are superb but the IPS glow is quite noticeable in the corners of the screen when viewing a dark image or a dark area in a game. This isn't backlight bleed as it disappears when I move far enough back or view the corner of the screen at a perpendicular angle.

I'm looking to panel technologies like TN or AMVA that don't suffer from this same glow issue.

Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Vincent
 
Solution
I found that TN based panels tend to turn dark purple when the pixel is off. I have always found this distracting because you see grey getting darker and darker then it turns purple, not black.

Backlight dimming is much less impressive than it was supposed to be by this time. Now even most TV's use edge lit because consumers want thinner(form over function is very popular). full array local dimming(edge lit TV's can still dim sections just not with such accuracy) was the ultimate in black level control for LCD panels. While it was at all the trade shows years back it has almost disappeared.
Something like this. It takes more power because it requires a special controller(cpu) and also should be used with better led's if we are ever to...
VA versions can give you better color than many TN panels without glow, but may have slower response times.

I just like you could NOT stand the glow, but the word IPS is the new 1080p(because of this, many screens are 1920 x 1080 even at sizes of 27 inches) or fullHD and what is being sold most now.

These things do not come cheap. Funny this is the same thing i payed for my 245T from Samsung 6 years ago. Since then color has shifted to sRBG being enough and Adobe RBG being something no one wants. With all content being optimized for it, I guess it does not actually matter any more.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014357

For those who are not familiar with "glow"

The brightness on the 245t is 14% so it is not set brighter to show more in the dark areas either. The other one was set to 100% just to see that much. The glow is always the same no matter the screen setting.
2saxfd4.jpg

68sdg1.jpg


Please note that VA panel overdrive may look strange to users who have not used it. and TN is still the FASTEST thing on the market.
 
I have found one more screen that fits my criteria, the BenQ BL3200PT.
I missed it initially because it is in a different section to the 27 inch monitors.
Compared to the Asus ROG PG278Q it has higher contrast and lower black depth, plus a range of video inputs.
You lose the 120 Hz, which means some motion blur typical for a 60 Hz screen.
It is 32 inch compared to 27 inch for the Asus. I'm not sure if that is a pro or a con. Pixel density is similar to a 24 inch 1920x1080 monitor.
I think this is my new favourite at the moment.
 

tmacg55

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Dec 24, 2013
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That benq looks like it may suit your needs if you do not care for IPS glow. Just keep in mind if you have never used a VA panel before that ghosting is very distracting if you're a gamer, and the color signature will not match IPS quality in terms of accuracy, but contrast will be better I guess. Does have notable amount of input lag, but you never suggested that you game a lot so this might not matter to you. Found this helpful review for you of that monitor :) http://www.displaylag.com/benq-bl3200pt-review-32-large-wqhd-monitor/
 
I have to agree with the above user about ghosting(I was using overdrive above as the term for ghosting reduction). It can be very strange. At some point you may not even notice it, but it is like the opposite of normal ghosting.

So a white mouse on a grey background can leave a dark-grey streak and not a whitish one like one would normally see.

User preference and at least that screen allows some adjustments.
 
I'm a bit dubious about the size. I'd probably rather something a bit smaller with the same resolution to improve pixel density.
The benefits of VA panels from what I can see are deeper blacks than IPS or TN and colour accuracy somewhere between the two.
The drawbacks seem to be slow response time and some sort of contrast issue when viewing pixels from head on.

I read the TFTCentral review on the monitor. They wrote that image blur (ghosting) and "off-centre contrast shift" are inherent problems with VA panels but that this monitor was much better than others they have tested.
What you are describing nukemaster sounds like overshoot, where overdrive over corrects image blur. They observed this with the "premium" AMA (overdrive) setting. With the "high" setting image blur was reduced but over shoot wasn't evident.
Have either of you used an AMVA panel, or are your comments based on older VA panels?
Any input is appreciated, I've never even seen a VA monitor.

This monitor is primarily for gaming, with some office type work. I don't tend to play online FPS games though. Skyrim and Far Cry 3 are probably the last two games I have spent substantial time on.
If it were just office work my Dell U2713HM would be perfect.
What bothers me about the Dell is the IPS glow, and even if this were gone then deeper blacks would be nice too.
What I don't want to lose though is the incredible lifelikeness of images on the screen. A photo on this monitor looks better than any other monitor I have ever used. I don't know though if that comes from the pixel density or from being a quality IPS panel. Everything else I have used are just mid range TN panels.
If I buy this BenQ monitor I am back to the pixel density of a 24 inch 1920x1080 monitor. There is then a question of image quality in AMVA compared to IPS.
 
My comments are based on panels I have seen. I personally have been using an S-PVA based panel for years. With no control over the overdrive system, I have overshoot similar to the "AMA Premium" setting on this screen.

I do not find it bad 90% of the time, but in the right circumstances, I will see it. Please note that I will not be looking at IPS panels until they bring back A-TW polarizes to reduce the glow.

Also the contrast shift is at angles not head on. So you can see dark parts of an image more at an off angle on a VA based screen while an IPS it should look the same(minus the fact that glow can cover dark parts of an image off angle anyway).

VA contrast is VERY good.
 
This is how the contrast issue is described in the review:
When viewing a very dark grey font on a black background, the font almost disappears when viewed head on, but gets lighter as you move slightly to the side. This is an extreme case of course as this is a very dark grey tone we are testing with. Lighter greys and other colours will appear a little darker from head on than they will from a side angle, but you may well find you lose some detail as a result. This can be particularly problematic in dark images and where grey tone is important.

Does that seem accurate from your experience with VA monitors?
Do you find you can see detail in very dark images or areas of a game?
 

tmacg55

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Constrast seems to be a very important issue for you. LCD technology will never be able to deliver good black levels unless it has a dimming back light feature, and monitors to my knowledge always use edge lit designs. Higher end HDTVs from Sony or Samsung have dim lit sets that match the black level quality of many plasmas. Edge lit LCD monitors will never deliver the perfect black level whether it is IPS, VA, or TN.
 
I found that TN based panels tend to turn dark purple when the pixel is off. I have always found this distracting because you see grey getting darker and darker then it turns purple, not black.

Backlight dimming is much less impressive than it was supposed to be by this time. Now even most TV's use edge lit because consumers want thinner(form over function is very popular). full array local dimming(edge lit TV's can still dim sections just not with such accuracy) was the ultimate in black level control for LCD panels. While it was at all the trade shows years back it has almost disappeared.
Something like this. It takes more power because it requires a special controller(cpu) and also should be used with better led's if we are ever to get better color reproduction. Few people realize that the back light plays a roll in color.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHfGzj9r6_E

Moving on.

I find this screen has some of the better dark color reproduction I have seen in years(this is actually impressive for a screen that can NOT dim the backlight in any way being as dark as many screens that have to dim the backlight. This thing is also a pig on power as a result) and they do not change colors(dark purple is not an issue for this screen). I can see all intended things in the games I play. When they have a calibration I most times have to turn down the slider.

The off angle contras actually allows you to see things you may not want to see. Dark scenes on compressed video(all modern video is compressed) will actually show you more compression artifacts off center than in front, the darker colors just become brighter.

I am so picky with monitors that I bring a laptop to the store to shop(Funny thing is a store associate once told me that image on a monitor has nothing to do with the screen and all to do with the video card driving it. Yeah...sure, my video card makes a cheap monitor color band....). It is packed with various images to check for color banding/dark and light color reproduction and I always make sure that dynamic contrast can be turned OFF. I do not want the entire heads up display to get darker in a game when I enter a dark room and then to get super bright when I leave that room. It is one of those things that I never want to use and seems only designed to sell products on a feature that falls flat when the screen has to display dark and light sections at once.

Unfortunately, the quality of monitors is all over the place. In the image above you can see the one screen clearly has trouble with darker colors(the screen can do dark[very dark], it just mashes a large section of dark colors into one single color) and the camera sees much better than I can because it looked even worse in person. Even on the S-PVA thing are very dark, but dark as they should be I think(to see much more would show all kinds of artifacts in the game it self).

Please note that because this is a wide color monitor(high 90's in adobe RBG compared the the low 70's of the sRBG setup), things do not always look the same either. Some users may be put off by this because some colors can be over saturated. Seeing as how over saturated many screens ship, It has never been an issue to be(just sucks that very little takes advantage of this feature.).

My overall recommendation is to check out screens locally because they seem to have quite a variation from screen to screen(even from the same maker. They had a Samsung TN 23 inch screen that had almost no color banding while the 27inch of the same screen family had quite a bit of it.).
 
Solution
I find that whenever I upgrade (this could be monitors, sound systems, anything with a complex user experience) I initially notice the benefits over what I had before but over time start to find the flaws. Overcoming these more subtle flaws usually jumps into a new category of product, where previously these seemed overpriced for no discernible benefit.

It's hard because computer shops don't usually have these high end displays so I can only really go from online reviews.
At $800 the BenQ seems like a bargain. I would pay more if I could find something substantially better.
In this case "better" could be:
- Higher pixel density
- Wider aspect ratio with less height
- More detail in dark scenes
- Better colour accuracy
- Less motion blur
- Less input lag

It seems that of the three main panel types, IPS, VA and TN, VA is closest to what I want if these contrast shift issues are OK.
IPS with an A-TW filter might be an option, but the only one I can find on offer is 24 inch.
If it weren't for IPS glow, I think the upcoming Dell U3415W could be amazing.
The Asus ROG PG278Q seems pretty good too, but blacks aren't as good as VA and the single input is going to be a hassle if I want to connect my laptop, particularly since I don't expect 120 Hz or g-sync to work with a displayport switch.

It seems like there have been a number of new panels released in the last few months. Maybe it is a good time to wait and see what else is coming rather than jumping to something I may not be happy with.

I guess what I need to conclude in order to buy the BL3200PT is:
- It has no significant weaknesses compared to the Dell U2713HM
- It better fits my criteria than the Asus ROG PG278Q or Dell U3415W
- There isn't anything significantly better to be released in the near future including new panel technologies or virtual reality headsets
 

tmacg55

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Dec 24, 2013
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I hope the monitor has everything you are looking for :) Good luck with purchase
 
Please do let us know how that screen turns out.

I do not know how long this one will last after all and it DOES have much more input lag than most gamers would put up with and without control over the overdrive setup, it can have overshoot for sure.

I personally would prefer if they made more 16:10 screens(I just find 16:9 too wide).