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78º @ 4.4ghz @ 1.216v 3570k h100i

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  • Noctua
Last response: in Overclocking
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September 15, 2014 6:15:41 PM

I think delidding is the only solutin as even in 4.2 @ 1.12 i get low 60ºs

I tried the line,x, pea in noctua nt h1 and asilver 5. All getting the same temps

Any other suggestions?

More about : 4ghz 216v 3570k h100i

September 15, 2014 7:22:05 PM

Is this at full fan speed ?

Which way fans blowing ? (Should be bringing fresh cool air into case)

What are ambient temps ?


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September 15, 2014 7:44:30 PM

Nope its blowing upward (pulling) just like in Linus's case. And its rpm is around 1200. 22-26 i think
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September 15, 2014 8:04:48 PM

1. You are using pre-heated hot air to cool your coolant . That will impact performance.

23C ambient
33C water temp
28C interior case temp.

Using outside air you will remove twice as much heat (33 - 23 = 10C) from the coolant as you do with inside (28 - 23 = 5C) air.

Your CPU is putting out maybe 100 watts at your OC. Your GFX card below the CPU is most likely putting out more than that and those two fans are sucking that heat right up thru your rads.


2. At 1200 rpm the H100i is not much of a cooler..... it really needs to get up over 2400 to top the better air coolers. Use you MoBo fan control utility to push it up to max just for test purposes, it will be noisy as hell but at least you will see where you are.

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September 15, 2014 9:03:41 PM

Well it kinda got around 5° more when i copied linus's setup of fans. Im using noctua fans at max rpm.
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September 15, 2014 9:16:23 PM

Couple questions. How's your intake? Is the pump fastened tight, I mean hurt the fingertips - time to get out the screwdriver tight, as it's been shown that clc pumps work more efficiently when tighter than normal for an aircooler. And what's the pump speed, what bios setting and what connection is used?

I have a h-55, nf-f12 Noctua fan, i5-3570K with nt-h1 paste, at 4.4 1.208v prime95 70°. You should be way better. Oh, its also top mounted and is dual duty as primary exhaust, I have no rear exhaust and usually runs @500-900 rpm fan, 1500rpm pump.
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September 15, 2014 9:41:22 PM

Well with $140 invested, I can understand your disappointment as those temps are typical of a Hyper 212 at that voltage. I'd suggest calling Corsair but they will just tell ya to turn the fans around as per their instructions.

However, if you are using Noctua 1200 rpm fans, the results are exactly what I would expect. The H100i does what it does because its fans spin at 2700 rpm. At 1200 rpm, the cooling capability is drastically reduced.

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/04/15/alphacool-nexxxo...

Look at the graphs here.... at 1000 rpm, the radiator pulls out 151 watts and at 2200 rpm it pulls 326 watts..... so at 45% of speed, it does 46% of the job. You are spinning at 44% of speed so I would expect that you are also getting less than half of the H100i's expected performance.

I'd try and return it if the 30 days hasn't passed. For the same money you could grab a H220-X which is 1/4 as loud as the 100i while outperforming it thermally, adding a reservoir, made out of copper ans you can add additional blocks to the loop.

The Swiftech blows in also.
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September 15, 2014 11:52:51 PM

Ive got 2 cougar vortex and nf p14 as front intake. Another cougar as exhaust. Ive tightened the screws and im not going to tighten them even more. What should be the rpm of the pump. I did not tinker that part. Its in default.

I have a d14 ill try to mount that later and see if the cpu or the pump/fans is the problem
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September 15, 2014 11:56:37 PM

Also in linus's video he used an h100i with 2 nf p12 in pull at top,same 2 front intake and back exhaust with lga 2011 proc oced and he gets 61 max temp on a closed case
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September 16, 2014 4:54:35 AM

Ive confirmed it. Its definitely the chip thats making things miserable. Ive mounted my d14 and still the same results, actually even higher.
Maybe ill just sell the chip or delid it. What do you think?
Although im not upgrading till broadwell refresh if there will be. Im going for a 3770k but not so sure about it
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September 16, 2014 7:06:29 AM

While I can understand Jacks math according to fan speed, what's not taken into consideration is the fans. At 1100 rpm, the Noctuas have better cfm and static pressure than the stock fans at 2400 rpm, so speeds in this case is not a consideration.
I have your identical cpu. Temps there are not gonna change much, except with voltage differences. You should be able to get slightly lower Volts, maybe 1.208, 1.200.

What are you using to measure temps. It makes a difference as some software reads socket temps not core temps.

Also, what's the ambient temp where the pc is, for example, more than a few ppl from India show ambient in the mid to high 30's which greatly reduces the efficiency of any cooler, air or clc, and end up with idles in the 50's loads close to 70, even with a 100i.

Pump speed should be @2200rpm+, some have reported speeds of close to 4000rpm. The settings in bios for cpu fan need to be disabled (smart cpu fan) or set for 100% and adjusted using the Corsair link,.

Only other thing I can think is you have off balance intakes/exhausts. With a 100i all you really need is 2x intakes to balance the 100is exhaust. If you have other exhaust fans too close to the fans of the 100i,youll starve the fan for air, so it won't be as effective
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September 16, 2014 7:40:19 AM

I think its the cpu as the noctua had the same results. Although right now after restarting with the noctua still installed im having the boot loop i usually have when i dont have a gpu attached in the mobo. Althiugh i do have the gpu installed. I dont know what happened
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September 16, 2014 7:43:33 AM

Mobo is asrock extreme 4, seasonic m12 620, gskill 2133 2x4gb, sandisk 128 and intel 128gb , 1 + 2 tb hdd. Ive just reinstalled the h100i and still in bootloop
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Best solution

September 16, 2014 10:18:39 AM

Karadjgne said:
While I can understand Jacks math according to fan speed, what's not taken into consideration is the fans. At 1100 rpm, the Noctuas have better cfm and static pressure than the stock fans at 2400 rpm, so speeds in this case is not a consideration.


While brand results in slight changes, there's no way a 1200 rpm Noctua fan can in any way compete with Corsairs 2700 in delivered air flow. Gotta Forget what they advertise look what real life laboratory testing shows. Fans have a curve with the fans say delivering 80 cfm at 0 SP and 0 cfm at 1.33 SP. That fan is oft advertised as 80 cfm / 1.33 SP

Ya have to look at actual performance on a radiator. Here we have the Nocs delivering just 25-26 cfm on a rad. Compare that with the 2000 / 3000 rpm fans in the list delivering 40 and 55 cfm. It's not even close.




Also more h100i kit testing shows the Corsair stock fans delivering up to twice the air flow as competitors more modest rpm kits



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September 16, 2014 11:11:02 AM

That chart is screwy. They show a nf-p12 at 53db(a)? No such thing. The d14 with a 140mm and a 120mm set at 900rpm will deliver 97% of its cooling potential and till only register 31 db(a). With 2x fans, one of which is the nf-p12. I've currently got a h55, same fan as the h50, as tested on that chart, but currently running a nf-f12 (louder than the p12) pushing through the rad, and maxed out that fan is easily 1/2 the volume of the old h55 fan. Real world. Not a chart.

As far as radiators go, cfm is not nearly as important as static pressure/cfm balance. In order to get high sp, the Corsair fans have to spin at a high rpm. Anything lower and the balance is off. All the cfm in the world means nada if there isn't sufficient force to push it through the rad. It just sits there, all turbulence, doing nothing. On the flip side high sp without any cfm does nothing either, no cooling potential. It's what makes the GT typhoon and the nf-f12 such effective rad fans, the balance.

Either way, those charts and graphs are either garbage, or biased, my vote on the former.
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September 16, 2014 12:00:36 PM

Quote:
Either way, those charts and graphs are either garbage, or biased, my vote on the former.


That's right out of "the bible". And it's a test on radiators not DH-14's. Martinsliquidlab is the definitive data source for the water cooling community. If you are gonna argue with Martin, you are going to have the entire WC community on the other side.

I used Martin's test data to size and design my WC system. I installed 4 water temp sensors and 2 air sensors (accurate to 1/10th of a degree) and the actual measured temps differed by single digit % points. Visit OCN and ask a water cooling question .... you will inevitably be sent to martins test site.

The high SP needed for rads is irrelevant advice from days gone by that still gets repeated despite the fact that it is no longer relevant. That comes from the era of 30 fpi rads and has no bearing on today's 9 - 12 fpi rads. All these concepts are well explained on Martins site. We could discuss the theory all day long but the test results are the test results. You could argued they are faked but they have been verified by thousands of users.

In today's water cooling market, it's driven as much by sound as performance..... water cooling today does not get you much increased performance as the voltage wall is right behind the air cooled temperature wall. I could be running a stress test with the monitor off an you could sit in front of my box and not know it's on....fan speeds range from 325 rpm to 850 rpm.

That's with a 4770k running at 46 multiplier / 46 cache / 2400 RAM and 1.385 volts with two 780s (26% GPU OC / 21 % memory OC). My CPU tops out at a maximum recorded temperature over a 2 hour test at 74C, my GPUs are at 44C, VRAM gets up to 56C..... if I bump the fans up to 1200 rpm I can get GPU temps down to 39C but I'd rather have the quiet.

We can go on quoting absolutes from years gone by but that ignores the fact that things change. We no longer have tightly spaced fins on radiators. You don't need high SP fans because 30 fpi rads don't exist anymore. The Gentle Typhoons were the kings of radiator cooling based upon performance / noise ratio .... if ya were more concerned with noise than performance, you went with Nocs. Noctua was the leader in air cooler fans.....again "back in the day". That day has passed and those old posts are no longer relevant because new test data shows otherwise.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenteks_f140/3...

Here Phanteks tops the Noctua's by 3C while spinning 300 rpm slower

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1345-page7.html

Here we see Phanteks topping the Noctuas and the Gentle Typhoons

Martins site is full of solid information and myth busting. It's a very good read. I'd start out with the article entitled "Why Static Pressure & Max Flow Specs Are Poor Measures of Fan Performance" and check out the index as well as the archive site,

Great example given there..... which is the better fan ?

Cougar Vortex Specs Sheet Says: 70 cfm / 2.2 mm SP (0.86 " water)
Gentle Typhoon Spec Sheet Says: 58 cfm / 0.80" water SP

Well Since 70 cfm is bigger than 58 and 0.86 is bigger than 0.80, most would probably conclude that the Vortex would be the better fan for a radiator application .... Would you agree with them ?

Spoiler
.... Well, they'd be wrong. That is because the fan never see's those points on the curve in the real world. The design point is where the fan curve meets system curve. This happens at between 0.04 and 0.5 SP.

The Gentle Typhoon will deliver only 38 cfm ..... no where near the 58 on the spec sheet ... at about 0.047" SP.
The Cougar Vortex will deliver only 35 cfm ..... way way off it's advertised 70 cfm .... at about 0.400" SP

In that test, the "assumed better" Vortex fan delivered only 50% of the promised 70 cfm. The GT delivered almost 70%. So if you are going to rely on what the manufacturer publishers, clearly the "specs lie". Real world test results don't






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September 17, 2014 5:19:20 PM

So if I use the h100is fan on the d14 at max rpm i can get better cooling? Cuz noctua fans have less rpm?
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September 17, 2014 7:23:06 PM

More rpm = better cooling, until you reach a point where there is so much turbulence that you have the turbulence fighting the air being pushed thru.....in other words there's a point of diminishing returns.

Check out the tables here for example:

http://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=co...

Here's two coolers compared with their stock fans:

Quote:
Thermalright Silver Arrow 61.8
Cooler Master V6 GT 61.2


ya see that the V6 outperformas the SA by 0.6C using stock fans .... the SA is a very quiet cooler (slow 900 - 1300 fans), the V6 is quite loud @ 2200 rpm. Now they pop on some Delta high speed 3400 rpm fans.

Quote:
Cooler Master V6 GT 59.5
Thermalright Silver Arrow 55.8


The V6 drops 2.3 degrees going from 2200 to 3400 rpm.
The SA drops a whopping 6 degrees going from 1300 to 3400 rpm

That shud give ya an idea of what happens when changing fan rpms.
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September 17, 2014 9:27:32 PM

This is the setup that i copied. Linus's setup is in silent mode, and has very low rpm
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September 17, 2014 9:36:14 PM

Like I said, cfm/sp balance. Those hs deltas have terrific sp, so even though they are high rpm/cfm, they have the power to force that air through the heatsink. The cougars actually make better case fans than rad fans especially in obstructed cases.

When researching for a replacement fan for my unacceptable h55 stock fan, I came across a video showing a smoke test. It was fascinating. You could now see the direction air was travelling on the exhaust side of the fan, and with majority of fans this was anywhere but straight from the hub, mostly it was out, upto about 60°. And it only got worse with higher rpm. For a rad fan, that's a disaster. Nothing but obstruction. If you've ever pulled a crappy rad fan off a dirty rad, what you'll see is a donut, all the crud is around the edges, and the Middle is relatively clean.

Two things make a crappy rad fan. Lack of directed air (as proven by MartinsLabs with fan shroud testing) and low sp. While I do understand that there are only 9-12 fins per inch, that doesn't change the fact that the space between the fins remains a tunnel. Low sp fans will never make good rad fans no matter the cfm or rpm if they lack the power to force air through a restricted airspace like a radiator tunnel, unless that air is directed to be straight at the fins. Any angle otherwise just creates turbulence, and higher cfm/rpm just amplifies that, as Jack was correct in pointing out, with diminishing returns.

A good example is Noctuas s fans, high cfm, low sp. As shown in Jacks spoiler graph, there is a real world point where sp and cfm balance and past that it's all downhill. The s fans have good rpm and good cfm, but because of the low sp, real world point is reached well before the fan reaches max rpm/cfm. You could double the rpm, wouldn't change a thing, the sp is too low to effectively raise the curve. The 3400rpm or better delta fans are the exact opposite. They have an sp of 7.0+,enough power to force the air through even the old 30fpi rads easily, but I for 1 don't want to listen to that 60+db(a) screamer.

The d14 with stock fans, LNA, @900rpm, on testing, pulled 9° over ambient. At extreme setting, no LNA, @1300rpm, pulled 6° over ambient, ambient being 18°. Higher cfm mean more cooling? Yep, 3 whole degrees for that extra 400rpm. Worth the noise. Not really. Real world point reached at @900rpm, just diminishing returns after that. If you could push those fans to 2400rpm, you'd probably get another 1-2°
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September 17, 2014 9:42:03 PM

Noise is more important to me ..... I can get my GPUs down to 39C but it requires fans to go at 1200 rpm, at 850 rpm, they are completely inaudible and I can deal with 44C. So it's all abut finding the balance that makes you happy. That was the goal of the H110 .... bigger rads, slower fans (1500 rpm) does find job w/ little noise..... litte faster than the 1300 rpm on the DH-14 stock fans

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September 18, 2014 3:02:20 AM

Oh, I totally agree, nothing worse than my old dell 8400 p4, that thing was not only an effective space heater, it was noisier than a guns-n-roses concert
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