New Build Temperature

jdl96

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Sep 16, 2014
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Hello, I am new here so please forgive me if this isn't posted in the correct spot.

Back in July I decided it was time to get a better PC and build one myself. I talked to some friends and got a part list together. Here are the parts:
Case
Power Supply (430 Watt)
RAM (8 GB. 2 x 4GB)
Video Card
Motherboard
CPU
Optical Drive
Operating System
HDD

I've had it for a little while now and while I did have some issues with the video card drivers and the PC freezing randomly for no reason, I think everything is okay now.
The only problem I'm having at the moment is the temperatures.

From my understanding there are two different temperatures: CPU Core and CPU Socket.
Apparently CPU Core is a lot more important than the CPU Socket temperature. My case has 4 different fans in it: the CPU fan that came with the CPU, a fan on the rear of the case blowing air out of the case (came with the case), and two fans on the front of the case blowing air into the case (one was built into the case and one I put there myself).
Whenever the computer is idle I'd say the Socket temperature stays around 37-39C and if I remember correctly the Core temperature is around 16-25C. When I do simple things like browse the web with Firefox the Socket temperature rises to anywhere between 40-50C depending on how resource-heavy the websites are. I don't usually pay that much attention to the Core temps because it's just browsing the web but I think the Core temperatures (according to the program I use called CoreTemp) are around 30-50C. The program I use to check the Socket temperature is called "F-Stream Tuning" and it was on the CD that the motherboard came with. Nowhere on the program does it specifically say that it's the Socket temperature, but comparing it with the temps on CoreTemp I assume that's what it is. I haven't really messed with any of the settings in CoreTemp so I'm hoping that it's giving me accurate readings. Anyway, here's a screenshot of what the F-Stream Tuning program looks like while I type this (note: I have 1 side of the case off just for today and I'd say that if I would have it on the CPU Socket temp would probably be at 40C. All the previous info I've given earlier is from when I do have my case sides on. Also the temperature of my room is 75F): http://i.imgur.com/onH34eU.png

In the image "Chassis Fan2 Speed" is the fan I put in myself. Chassis Fan1 and 3 are the fans that came with the case in the front and back (don't remember which is which), but for some reason they don't give a reading. However every once in awhile Fan3 gives a reading for a split second and it's usually like a little over 1000 RPM. Here's the fan settings I set in bios:

CPU Fan 1 & 2 (even though I only have 1 CPU Fan): Automatic Mode
- Target CPU Temperature: 57C/134F
- Target Fan Speed: Level 3
---
Chassis Fan 1: Full on
---
Chassis Fan 2: Manual
- Target Fan Speed: Level 8
---
Chassis Fan 3: Full on
---

The reason the CPU Fan is set the way it is is because I talked to a friend and they said that it's okay for the Socket temp to get a little over 60C, but I'm not too sure about that now. Chassis fan 2 (the one I put in myself) is set to level 8 because if I put it any higher it's waaay too noisy. Also, besides the fan settings and a few other minor things that I can't remember, I haven't really changed any of the settings in bios. I don't really understand what overclocking is but am I doing it based on the CPU readings in the F-Stream Tuning image? If so I'd like to know how to get my CPU back to a safe clocking reading because I don't want to overclock. I really don't want to fry anything either.

So some things I need to know are:
- What is a safe temperature range for my CPU Core?
- What is a safe temperature range for my CPU Socket?
- What is a safe RPM range for my CPU fan? It's gotten to 6000 RPM before and honestly it really scares me because of how loud it gets at that speed.
- Are my temperatures actually okay after all?
- Is it better to leave a case side off? Does it make better temperatures?
- Should I get a better CPU fan? And if so, what do you recommend from Amazon.com (no water cooling - too scared to try it haha)

Thank you guys so much in advance,
- Jacob

EDIT: Forgot to mention that when I was checking the settings in bios for making this post, the CPU Socket temp was at like 50C?? I have no idea why.
 
Solution
Lot to digest there. I'll tackle a couple. Your temps are about normal. Ignore socket temp. It is meaningless for our purpose. Go by core temps. Those are the actual temps of the CPU cores. But the problem with the Bulldozer and Piledriver CPUs is that the algorithm used is... well, screwed up. Most temp reading apps don't read it correctly. Having said that, your included app appears to be reading correctly.
If you are planning on OC'ing, it is suggested to use AMD's OverDive to read THERMAL MARGIN instead. That is the distance remaining until the CPU throttles to save itself. http://www.techspot.com/downloads/4645-amd-overdrive.html
You can get more info here...

clutchc

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Lot to digest there. I'll tackle a couple. Your temps are about normal. Ignore socket temp. It is meaningless for our purpose. Go by core temps. Those are the actual temps of the CPU cores. But the problem with the Bulldozer and Piledriver CPUs is that the algorithm used is... well, screwed up. Most temp reading apps don't read it correctly. Having said that, your included app appears to be reading correctly.
If you are planning on OC'ing, it is suggested to use AMD's OverDive to read THERMAL MARGIN instead. That is the distance remaining until the CPU throttles to save itself. http://www.techspot.com/downloads/4645-amd-overdrive.html
You can get more info here: http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2122665/understanding-temperature-amd-cpus-apus.html

If you plan of OC'ing you should get an aftermarket cooler, like the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO. If you simply want a quieter cooler, look into the Cooler Master TX-3. Be sure your case will fit the tall-ish coolers, tho. The stock AMD cooler is an obnoxious sounding cooler on any speed. And at full speed, it can reach near 6K RPM, yes. Does your BIOS CPU FAN setting have an AUTO mode? That would be the way to go if you don't OC. And be sure Cool and Quiet is enabled for even better silence.

There should be no reason to leave the side off unless you are having extreme heat issues. In fact, sometimes that will even make things worse by killing the air flow pattern. If your core temps start staying above 70C for extended periods of time, that is too warm. I believe that CPU will throttle at somewhere around 80C.
Your system may get a little warmer than one that is in a case with a vented top. The closed top means all heat has to be DRAWN out of the case via fans instead of letting thermal dynamics help.
 
Solution

jdl96

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Sep 16, 2014
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By "your included app" do you mean the F-Stream Tuning program or CoreTemp? I'm 90% sure that F-Stream Tuning monitors the Socket temperature.
And no, I don't plan on overclocking at this time. I'd like my voltage and all that set to normal levels. By looking at this image do you think my clocking rate is at normal levels?


As for the bios settings, yes, there is a setting for the CPU Fan that's "Automatic". That's what it's currently set to, with the target cpu (socket, I assume) temp being 57C and the target fan speed being at "Level 3". Do you think I need to adjust these settings? I think once the socket temp starts getting around 55C under heavy load is when the CPU fan starts going around 6000 RPM. Also yes, I do have Cool and Quiet enabled in bios. Also I installed the "AMD Overdrive" program you recommended (haven't messed with any settings though - I'm afraid to). I think it will be useful to monitor the thermal margins. I did notice though that whenever I installed it, suddenly Chassis Fan3 is showing up in F-Stream Tuning... Does anyone know why that is?

Something I'm worrying about is the fan running too high and burning out or breaking or somethig like that. It pretty much sounds like it's going to explode haha. I would like to fix that problem and make sure I have normal temperatures.

- Jacob
 

clutchc

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Yes, that is the app I was referring to. I didn't know that was socket temp. Socket temp is usually ~5C cooler than core temps. But that is not 'carved in stone'.
If you run Core Temp* it will be slightly off at idle temp due to the algorithm issue I mentioned above , but pretty accurate at load temps.

It looks like you are in between standard clock of 3.5 GHz and Turbo speed of 4.0 GHz. Probably averaging the 8 cores.

It sounds like the CPU fan header you are plugged into is set to manual mode. That usually requires you to choose presets or targets. AUTO is usually done by the MB BIOS automatically; you don't have to set anything.
The fan isn't going to explode or anything. If it is defective (I doubt it), it will simply over-current and die. I have built with many of the AMD Phenom, Athlon, APU, FX processors that use that 4 heat pipe cooler. It is just obnoxious in its noise.


* Core Temp: http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/
Be sure to click on the "more downloads" link and take one of the stand alone pgms. It can be run as a stand alone pgm or installed with a link on the desktop. But if you grab the big "download" link at the top, you will get bloat-ware you don't need.
 

jdl96

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Sep 16, 2014
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So I assume that my clocking rate is alright then.. Good.

As for the CPU fan, if I remember correctly the only modes available in bios are "Automatic" and "Full On". Automatic lets you choose the target temperature and fan speed as mentioned before, and I'm not sure how "Full On" works because it was only set to that for a little while once I had built the PC before changing settings in the bios. I'm probably wrong, but I think whenever it was set to Full On that whenever the fan speed would increase to cool off the CPU, it would stay at that speed and never go back down like Automatic mode does.

So I'm guessing what I could do is set the target temperature in bios to as high as it'll go so whenever I'm under load the fan speed won't go up as high.. Or I could buy a better CPU fan. At this point I'm not so sure what to do.
 

clutchc

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If the CPU fan "auto" mode makes you choose target temps, they changed something since I built with the Fatality. Double check. Post a pick of the settings in BIOS if possible. But, If that's the case, that's all you can do then. Yes, full on will run the cooler fan at max speed all the time. Btw, check that you actually plugged the CPU cooler fan in the correct header. If CPU and SYS are close together, it is easy to accidentally pick the wrong one.
 

jdl96

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I checked and the CPU fan is plugged into "CPU_FAN1" on the motherboard. Also here is a picture of the bios settings:
http://i.imgur.com/rbL0Zb1.jpg
Not shown in the picture is the one other option to choose from for the "CPU Fan 1 & 2 Setting" and it's "Full On". Also the fan levels to choose from is Levels 1-9. Here's a picture of the temperature list to choose from:
http://i.imgur.com/ar57CuE.jpg

I have also taken a picture of inside the case because I'm probably just going to buy a better cooler. Here's that picture: http://i.imgur.com/yN2aPjZ.jpg
Based on the picture what cpu cooling fan and thermal paste (if I shouldn't use the paste that comes with the fan) do you recommend? I did see that you suggested some earlier but I do not know if they will fit in the case.

And as of right now I did not change the temperature settings in bios to the highest one possible like I suggested I would. I will try that if I decide not to buy a better cooling fan.
 

clutchc

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The CPU FAN setting: In BIOS I'm pretty sure when you are on AUTO mode, those targets are not functional. But I can't be 100% sure in the case of that AM3+ board. The 1155 socket Fatality board I built with did not display target selections when in auto mode.

The case wiring: Wow. You need to do some cable management. Run as many as will fit behind the MB tray if there's room. Tie back the rest so they don't block air flow. And I suggest you switch the front fans around. Take that tiny add-on fan and use it for cooling the drives. They need very little cooling. Move the 120mm (?) front fan to the top position. That will provide more air flow to the MB and gfx card.

That is a narrow case. 199mm (7.83"). The 212 EVO may be too tall for the width of the case. I keep this one on hand for those narrow cases: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103064&cm_re=Cooler_Master_Hyper_TX-_-35-103-064-_-Product

This one also fits narrow cases well: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118128&cm_re=zalman-_-35-118-128-_-Product

They are both MUCH quieter than the AMD stock cooler and both can even withstand some OC'ing.
 

jdl96

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They do seem to work for me. I've messed around with them a little and they respond accordingly. If I remember correctly whenever I set the CPU Fan setting to Full On the target selections disappear.


Believe me when I say that the wiring is pretty tight as it is. It could be better though. I'm kinda embarrassed by it haha. I'll look into what I can do with it and the fans, but I won't be able to stick any fans to the top of the case since I don't think there are any holes up there.



Yeah I think the 212 EVO is too tall for my case. I'm going to see about getting a Cooler Master Hyper TX3. By the way, how exactly do these coolers cool better though? TX3 says it only goes to 2800 RPM. I assume it's the pipes and heatsink that really cools everything off the most.
Also, whenever I do get this new fan, should I set the bios settings for the CPU Fan to "Full On"?

Oh and, this is kind of an unrelated issue but.. Do you think my power supply is powerful enough for everything in the case? It has 430 watts. A mistake I made when ordering a PSU was that I forgot to look at the wattage and everything.

Thanks,
- Jacob
 

clutchc

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Fans: I might have misunderstood you. I thought you had mounting positions for 2 front fans. One included and one optional. But It appears you only have the one 120mm. If possible, the 120mm should be mounted where the little 80mm fan is. It would provide better cooling.

The aftermarket coolers are better designed and have more efficient cooling due to that. The AMD stock cooler is rather pitiful in its design. But it does the job with more noise than is necessary.

PSU: As long as you don't get a gfx card any more powerful than the one you have now, it will be fine. It's all about the +12V rail...
The R7-260X is only a 115W card maxed out at stock speed. That's only ~9.6A on the +12V rail. The CPU is 125W maxed out at stock speed. That's another 10.4A on the +12V rail.
Your PSU should have a +12V rail rated for 32A @ 384W. Still enough headroom for the MB, fans, drives, etc. They don't draw much.
 

jdl96

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Ahhh okay, I'm the one who misunderstood! I thought by the "top position" you meant the ceiling of the case. I get what you mean now, and I'm not sure if I'll be able to put the 80mm fan in the 120mm fan's place in the front of the case but I'll definitely look into it.
@PSU: Okay, thanks. I'll try to be more careful when picking out parts. It's funny, I was so careful with everything else but somehow I managed to let that slip past me.

So basically what I'm going to do now is buy the new cooler and work with the wiring and fans. I'm still unsure of what I'll have the bios set to once I get the new cooler but I'll try it at "Full On" first. I just hope it doesn't push the fan past its limit.
- Jacob
 

clutchc

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If the little fan doesn't fit at the bottom location, just leave it out. It isn't needed all that much anyway. You can buy another 120mm fan cheap if you really feel you need it.

Personally, I'd leave the CPU cooler fan set to auto. It won't be so noisy. It will increase speed as needed. I still don't know why they would have a setting called AUTO and then ask you to choose settings. Odd. First I've seen like that.
 

jdl96

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Alright I just placed the order for the cooler. I really hope it fits! If not I'll save up and try a different one..
By the way, whenever I go to install this new cooler, how do I go about getting the old thermal paste off? Also how much of the new paste do I need to apply? I've never done this before since the stock cooler came with the paste already on it. Thanks.
- Jacob
 

clutchc

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If you want to use the process I use, get some of this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100010&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Thermal+Compound+%2f+Grease-_-N82E16835100010&gclid=CO_dvP246cACFQqQaQodUmYAxw
...for cleaning. And some of this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186038&cm_re=mx-4-_-35-186-038-_-Product
...for thermal paste (TIM). I like MX-4 because it works well and is not electrically conductive. I use plain old coffee filters for cleaning because they are lint free and cheap. If you don't want to spend the money for the cleaner, you can use isopropyl alcohol.

Once the surface of the CPU and cooler is clean, don't touch either surface with your fingers. You don't want to leave skin oil on the surfaces. Put a dot of TIM barely the size of a pencil eraser on the center of the CPU. Install the cooler. The pressure and heat will spread the TIM for you. You don't want to use too much. That will retard cooling. All you really are trying to do is fill in the microscopic pores of the metal surfaces.

 

clutchc

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It's good too. If that cooler you are buying comes with some, use it. There's only a few degrees C difference between the best stuff and the worse. But assume it is electrically conductive unless you know otherwise. Keep it off the socket, contacts, pins, MB, etc.
 

jdl96

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Okay then, thanks. I guess I'll leave this thread opened and post the results of the cooler once I receive it if that's okay.
Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it!
- Jacob
 

jdl96

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Alright so I installed the cooler. It was pretty hard to get it to clip on but I managed to do it with a little help. It's certainly a /lot/ quieter than the stock one, which is awesome. Here are the max temperatures I had while playing the first map of Dead Center from Left 4 Dead 2, which didn't take long since I was rushing through the map a little:
Socket Temperature: 65C
Core Temperature: 55C
Are these okay temperatures? And at what temperature should I try to keep the socket under?

I did set the CPU fan to "Full On" in bios after all, since it only goes up to 2800 RPM. However I'm a little concerned that I didn't put enough thermal paste on. I only put on a tiny dab in the middle. It also kinda looks like the cooler isn't on the center of the CPU. I'm not sure if it is or not. And the socket temperature (I don't know about the core temp) seems to have gone up a few degrees when I'm idling with firefox opened. About 4-6 degrees. Is that normal or..?
 

clutchc

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Your core temps are what you want to watch. The socket temp is not all that important as far as we are concerned. If you are at 55C core temp while gaming, you are in great shape. In fact, if the fan is too loud, set it back to auto. It will speed up when needed. The better designed 92mm fan will move more air quieter than the poorer designed 80mm fan of the stock cooler.

Let's see, you got the TX3, right? It is a pretty easy mounting. It can only be off center one way. Fwd/Bkw along the latch axis. It can't be oof the other way, if you have the bar in its grooves. If it is off center along the latch bar, just push it the way it has to go. You might have to let off a bit on the latch to get it to move.

Idle temp isn't all that important. All you are trying to do is keep the FX-8320 below ~70C for long periods.
Which way do you have the fan blowing? Looking at my TX3 sitting on the shelf, I remembered that you can mount it in 4 directions; up, dn, lft, rt. Since your case has a solid top, you would obviously want the fan blowing towards the back of the case.
 

jdl96

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Here's a (bad) drawing of how I have the cooler on and how I think it's sitting on the CPU.
I did want to have the fan in the opposite direction that it's in now but it was just so hard to get the clips on that way that I had to turn it around.
http://i.imgur.com/030Q5o5.png

Edit: Forgot to mention that the picture is in the same perspective as the one inside the case that I posted before.
 

clutchc

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(1) It shouldn't have been any harder to mount in one direction than the other. (??) Do you have the latch bracket this way?
ghZnIFJ.jpg


or this way?
MOV6MHt.jpg


(ignore the Intel mounting hardware)

(2) If your cooler is that far off center on the CPU, just ease off on the latch a bit and slide it over as I outlined above. Easy.
 

jdl96

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(1) I guess since it was close to the ceiling of the case, coupled with the fact that I'm left-handed that it was easier to turn it around the other way haha.. No idea. And I have the bracket the way shown in your second image.
(2) Ah, okay then. That doesn't seem too hard to do.
 

jdl96

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Okay I moved the cooler to be more centered on the CPU. It was pretty easy. I also did another stress test again with Left 4 Dead 2, but this time playing through the first campaign all the way since just doing the first map wasn't really good enough in my opinion.
At first the the core temp was sticking around 60C and the socket temp around 70C. However when I started the last map of the campaign (The Atrium) my core temp started to go up to 67-69C and socket went up to 80C. I went ahead and kept playing to the end of the map, and then right afterward I loaded up the first map of the campaign again to see if the temps would go back down. They did, a little. The core temp went down to around 65C and socket was I think around 75C. Again I have the CPU fan set to "Full On" in bios, and I remember you saying that I should try to keep the core temp below 70C. What should I do?

Also I haven't gotten around to seeing if I can switch the front fans around just yet, sorry about that.