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Is this computer worth it?

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  • Power Supplies
  • Computers
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  • Homebuilt
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September 30, 2014 10:12:46 PM

I've been debating updating one of my computers. It is used primarily for gaming but its getting really long in the tooth. I will need a new motherboard, processor, and ram. I should be able to keep everything else.

Additionally one of my monitors died today and I'm not sure I'll be able to fix it.

A woman I know asked me if I knew anyone who would be interested in buying her husbands computer as they are short on cash. She wants $600 for that (says she paid $1500 for it 4 months ago). I don't usually buy used computer parts. I was wondering if it is worth the risk. I saw some pictures and I think it is a custom built system. Obviously I would test it before paying.

Here are the specs that I get from the pictures (she knows nothing about computers at all):
-24 inch LG LCD monitor ($220 on newegg). I would normally buy a cheaper monitor then this.
-intel i7-4470 3.4Ghz cpu (screenshot)
--Asus H87M-E Motherboard (saw a picture of manual)
- 8Gb Ram (screenshot, don't know what brand or stick sizes)
- 120GB SSD (screenshot, don't know what brand/model)
-1TB HDD (screenshot, don't know what brand/model)
-LG supermulti M-disc
-multi card reader (can see in picture)
-wi-fi card (can see in picture)
-1 Really ugly case
-Don't know what kind of power supply
-Pictures shown running windows 8 but no windows sticker or windows disc in picture with disks/manuals.

Besides the fact only actually need the monitor, mb, cpu and ram, I would find a use for the ssd and the hdd and the wifi. The rest of it I don't need at all. I have my own Windows license anyway but I would assume not having one should lower the price of the computer?

Like I said I never buy used parts so I don't know if this is a good deal.

More about : computer worth

a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
September 30, 2014 10:17:24 PM

Very hard to confirm or deny without knowing the brand and model of the power supply. Since that's the heart of the system, literally more important than any other component, I'd want to be sure it has a quality PSU and that it worked correctly under load, prior to buying. Unless of course you have plans to purchase a new one anyhow, or already have a good quality (And I don't just mean high wattage, that has nothing to do with quality) unit you plan to reuse.

Does it come with a GPU card or do you already have a preferred one you plan to reuse?

You can get a good case and PSU for about a hundred bucks, which would bring your total to 7 bills, if you had to. I'd say it's probably worth it if everything works, but it's a crapshoot unless you can verify working condition of all included items.

Also, for gaming, hopefully it has a GPU card or you have one, the onboard graphics are severely limited and won't offer you the ability to play most titles at any respectable level.
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September 30, 2014 10:47:56 PM

I have a decent powersupply in the computer I wanted to upgrade. I can't remember the make model but it was a really decent 750W one. Unfortunately is about 6 years old so it is probably nearing end of life anyway... The case is also really nice and it should be fine. No front USB 3.0 ports but thats not a big deal.

The computer I am thinking of buying does not come with a GPU, only on board graphics. The graphics card in my current computer is old and crappy so I will have to upgrade that too. Probably when Dragon Age Inquisition comes out since my fiancee is waiting for it (This is her computer I'm trying to upgrade).

I'm not even sure if I should upgrade her cpu/motherboard or not. It is a Core 2 Quad 2.2 Ghz with 8GB DDR2 Ram (motherboard max). I was planning on upgrading it because the specs were not good enough to run Sims 4 but it ran fine all the same. The original graphics card burnt out a while ago and I put in a crappy used one a friend gave me. It runs Sims 4 on medium but will need to be updated for Dragon Age I'm sure. I'm just not sure how much I should spend on it.

darkbreeze said:
Very hard to confirm or deny without knowing the brand and model of the power supply. Since that's the heart of the system, literally more important than any other component, I'd want to be sure it has a quality PSU and that it worked correctly under load, prior to buying. Unless of course you have plans to purchase a new one anyhow, or already have a good quality (And I don't just mean high wattage, that has nothing to do with quality) unit you plan to reuse.

Does it come with a GPU card or do you already have a preferred one you plan to reuse?

You can get a good case and PSU for about a hundred bucks, which would bring your total to 7 bills, if you had to. I'd say it's probably worth it if everything works, but it's a crapshoot unless you can verify working condition of all included items.

Also, for gaming, hopefully it has a GPU card or you have one, the onboard graphics are severely limited and won't offer you the ability to play most titles at any respectable level.


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Related resources
a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
September 30, 2014 11:23:24 PM

I'd find the brand and model of the PSU and then compare it to the following list to be sure. The PSU is more important than any other component, like I said, as nothing works right if it doesn't supply good, clean power ( Not all 750 watts of supplied power are equal.), and it is also the only component that can take out all other components with it if it fails. That being said, it sounds like you are semi-capable of assembling a unit yourself, if not more than semi-capable, and for six hundred bucks we could probably put together a much better system than the one they want to sell you considering you already have a case, maybe a PSU and probably already have a dvd drive.

You're right about the older system, it's pretty well outdated and is unlikely from this point forward to be capable of playing any common titles that may be released, and a lot of titles previously released. Anything still using DDR2 is dead technology. If it was a pre-built system I would need to know the brand and model of the unit to verify that the case form factor and PSU form factor would be compatible with current configurations just to play it safe. If the PSU came with the pre-built unit, you can be sure it was cheap as they all come with cheap PSUs regardless of brand.

I think we can even include a nice 24" monitor for that price. Let me know if this is something you are interested in doing and I'll put together a build list for you.

PSU Tier list. (PSU needs to be at least Tier 3, preferably Tier 2B or above with matching series and wattage, not just brand, to ensure a quality unit):

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1804779/power-su...

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October 1, 2014 12:43:28 AM

That would be awesome. I am completely capable of putting together my own system. I just often have trouble picking the best parts.

Ok 1st The computer I am updating is a Dell XPS 630. It was given to me used a few years ago. It still has all of the same parts except I have added a 120Gb SSD. Also the graphics card died and I replaced it with one I got for free that was slightly crappier then stock. I'm pretty sure it was the higher end version of these since it has the Core 2 Quad not the Core 2 Duo and 8Gb of Ram. The power supply is a 750 watt (whatever came with it but it doesn't look that cheap and I have had no problems so far). It has a really huge metal case which I actually really like.

I also have another computer which I have built over time. It has a decent midtower case with lots of fans and one of those enclosed water coolers. This is because I decided to go with AMD over Intel (I kind of regret that now) and my first CPU had heat problems so I wasn't taking any chances after replacing it. I replaced my old case with one with lots of air flow. It is currently an FX-8120. The motherboard is an half decent Asus motherboard. I can't remember which one off hand but it has everything I needed and wanted (except front USB 3.0 headers). The graphics card on it also died and since it is our primary computer which is running about 12 to 14 hours a day with dual monitors (one tv which we use to play video in lieu of cable) I got a R9 280 with 3GB ram when the other card died this summer. It has 8GB DDR3 ram (2x2gb and 1x4gb). It has the cheapest 750Watt psu that money can buy because my old one on my old build died when I was really broke. It also has an SSD as well as 3HDDs. I just keep adding hdds to hold movies/tv ect. I'm thinking of building some kind of media server out of some of the other old computers I have lying around. So those are my best two computers. I also have 2 (soon to be 3) random old computers people keep giving me.

What I really want to do is to take all of my computers and make them into 2 decent gaming computers while spending as little as possible. Both me and my fiance game and it would be nice if we could both play something modern at the same time which is getting harder lately as her computer is aging out rapidly. i don't need anything like card readers, or dvd drives - I have a ton and I don't actually use them. Wireless is nice but not necessary as I have enough ethernet cables to go around. I don't need Windows Licences. I was a student and got a whole bunch for free and then I worked for the college and got even more for free and cheap so I am good for any operating system up to Windows 8. I also do not need any programs (except games of course) so none of that needs to be bugeted for either. I will need another monitor if I cannot fix the one that just died though. I suspect it will need capacitors replaced (I was an engineering student) but I have a serious phobia of electrocution and my soldering skills are mediocre at best.

darkbreeze said:
I'd find the brand and model of the PSU and then compare it to the following list to be sure. The PSU is more important than any other component, like I said, as nothing works right if it doesn't supply good, clean power ( Not all 750 watts of supplied power are equal.), and it is also the only component that can take out all other components with it if it fails. That being said, it sounds like you are semi-capable of assembling a unit yourself, if not more than semi-capable, and for six hundred bucks we could probably put together a much better system than the one they want to sell you considering you already have a case, maybe a PSU and probably already have a dvd drive.

You're right about the older system, it's pretty well outdated and is unlikely from this point forward to be capable of playing any common titles that may be released, and a lot of titles previously released. Anything still using DDR2 is dead technology. If it was a pre-built system I would need to know the brand and model of the unit to verify that the case form factor and PSU form factor would be compatible with current configurations just to play it safe. If the PSU came with the pre-built unit, you can be sure it was cheap as they all come with cheap PSUs regardless of brand.

I think we can even include a nice 24" monitor for that price. Let me know if this is something you are interested in doing and I'll put together a build list for you.

PSU Tier list. (PSU needs to be at least Tier 3, preferably Tier 2B or above with matching series and wattage, not just brand, to ensure a quality unit):

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1804779/power-su...



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October 1, 2014 12:45:40 AM

Also: in case it matters I live in ontario, so no nicely priced newegg.com and amazon.com prices for me. I have to buy of newegg.ca and amazon.ca or go to canadacomputers.com or tigerdirect.ca in person.

darkbreeze said:
I'd find the brand and model of the PSU and then compare it to the following list to be sure. The PSU is more important than any other component, like I said, as nothing works right if it doesn't supply good, clean power ( Not all 750 watts of supplied power are equal.), and it is also the only component that can take out all other components with it if it fails. That being said, it sounds like you are semi-capable of assembling a unit yourself, if not more than semi-capable, and for six hundred bucks we could probably put together a much better system than the one they want to sell you considering you already have a case, maybe a PSU and probably already have a dvd drive.

You're right about the older system, it's pretty well outdated and is unlikely from this point forward to be capable of playing any common titles that may be released, and a lot of titles previously released. Anything still using DDR2 is dead technology. If it was a pre-built system I would need to know the brand and model of the unit to verify that the case form factor and PSU form factor would be compatible with current configurations just to play it safe. If the PSU came with the pre-built unit, you can be sure it was cheap as they all come with cheap PSUs regardless of brand.

I think we can even include a nice 24" monitor for that price. Let me know if this is something you are interested in doing and I'll put together a build list for you.

PSU Tier list. (PSU needs to be at least Tier 3, preferably Tier 2B or above with matching series and wattage, not just brand, to ensure a quality unit):

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1804779/power-su...



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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 1, 2014 1:24:17 AM

I'll work on this tomorrow for you in the afternoon as it's 2:18am here right now, and I gotta hit the sack. I'll throw that together for you though and then we can nitpick it to your satisfaction if something doesn't appeal to you. It's no problem at all and I'm glad to help. Plus, you'll end up with something much more current and suited to specifically what you intend to use it for. No problem on the shopping sites, I'll use sources local, or at least regionally available online, to your area. Also, if you could kinda outline exactly what parts you currently have, including any model numbers, and what build you tentatively would like to use them with, ie, this goes with build #1 but build number two needs these, that would be helpful. Talk to you soon.
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October 1, 2014 2:41:49 AM

Sure no problem. Its late here too so I will get most of it tomorrow.

But here are the builds I would like to make:
Build 1: Main Desktop/ Gaming Desktop - I would mainly use this one for playing video, playing games and any other computer type stuff. I do a lot of programming but mostly for mobile type apps so realistically I don't need anything incredibly hardcore for that. I do a tiny bit of photoshop/gimp type stuff but nothing serious. Mostly just removing backgrounds on sprites or cropping a photograph. Nothing serious. I might possibly run a VM or two but I have a macbook pro that I use as my primary laptop (Intel HD graphics so no serious gaming) and have jammed it full of ram (16 gigs) so I tend to do most of my VMing on there. I never do video editing or anything like that. I currently have this computer hooked up to a surround sound system, a 32 inch TV and a 24 inch monitor (the monitor died today though). It gets used every day for the uses I mentioned above.

Build 2: A secondary gaming computer for my fiancee. She is really into gaming, particularily RPGs. Her favourite games include Skyrim, Oblivion, Dragon Age, and Mass Effect plus she sometimes plays games like The Sims or Civilization. So anytime one of those kind of games is coming out she wants to play it. For example she plans on taking a few days off or work to play the new Dragon Age game. So this build needs to be able to play those sort of games. I would prefer to not have to update it for a while after this. This computer doesn't get used as much and besides gaming is mainly used for random stuff like surfing the net. It will be used near constantly for days and/or weeks at a time and then not used at all for similar amounts of time.

Build 3 (maybe): If I have enough stuff left over I want to take the best of whats left and make a media streaming server to take some of the strain off of my main desktop. I don't want to spend a whole lot of money on this one though.

I will get back to you with my parts list of what I have for each computer. Thanks alot for helping me with this. I tend to get stuck and either go way to cheap or go overkill. Plus I end up with analysis paralysis.
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October 1, 2014 3:36:43 AM

OK I did this afterall tonight for the first computer. The second computer is the Dell XPS 630 but I will get you the exact parts tomorrow as well as the psu model for this build.

Desktop1:
CPU: AMD FX-8320
Motherboard: Asus M5A97
Memory 12GB DDR3 (4GB Kingston 1600 99U5584-005-A00LF, 4GB Kingston 1333 KHX1600C903/4GX X2)
Graphics: AMD Radeon R9 200 series - Core: 940MHz, Memory 1250 MHz, Memory Size 3072MBytes - Duel-X 280
Disks:
1. Corsair Force SSD 120.0GB SATA-300
2. Hitachi HTS543232L9A300 320.0GB 5400 RPM SATA-300
3. SAMSUNG HD154UI 1500.3GB SATA (speed not listed on SIW) SATA-300
4. Seagate ST3000DM001-9YN166 3000.5GB 7200RPM SATA-600
Optical: Toshiba Samsung Storage Technology DVD-RW

Case: Antec GX700 Rugged Gaming Mid ATX Tower Case

PSU - Need to crack the case tomorrow and take a look.
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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 1, 2014 9:36:21 AM

Sounds good and I'll actually wait until I hear back from you on the PSUs you have before proceeding. If there are any date codes on them, gimme those as well. There may or may not be but a lot of times the production date may be stamped or printed somewhere on the rig. Or in the serial number it may be decoded.
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October 1, 2014 10:47:56 AM

The PSU for Computer #1 is Antec 650 80 Plus Bronze model EA-650-Green DT110CD2ED011360

Computer 2: As stated Dell XPS 630 - Stock build including the Core 2 Quad and 4 X 2GB DDR2 RAM. The PSU
The graphics card has been swapped out for a HP PN: 403103-001 REV M02 which is a GTS250 1GB DDR3 RAM
The PSU is Dell model D750E-00 Made in China DP/N 0DW209 CN-ODW209-17972-BAT-0H0W-A501
I also added a 120GB SSD.

I also have a 3rd Computer given to me recently.
It has:
Motherboard: M2N68-AM PLUS
CPU: I couldn't read the label but if necessary I'll start it up and take a look
Memory: 2GB DDR2 800 X2
PSU: Extreme ATX 450 RSY-645 no date or other numbers
HDD Seagate Barracuda srx2 jcx 7200.10

I also have another computer which if I recall correcctly is a Dell P4 around 3GHz (possibly a dual core).

Also I have a mystery computer coming this week. It belonged to my friends dad before he passed recently and she told me I should take it or she was going to throw it out. I don't have it here yet and I didn't get a good look at but I know it had a separate graphics card. He was really into gaming and stuff but it was his backup computer so I'm not sure what to expect. Because I'm a student and "into computers" people are constantly giving me computers. Most of them are terrible old affairs with SD ram but once and a while I get lucky like the Dell XPS. I have had that thing for over 3 years so it was pretty good when I got it, good enough that my fiancee has been using it since she moved in and has been able to play everything so far (not necessarily on good settings). If necessary I could probably pick it up today.
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October 1, 2014 11:15:08 AM

Just in case it matters the lady from work selling the desktop got back to me with more info and I am pretty sure it is almost the same as this:
http://www.mdg.ca/finance/Desktops.aspx# Vision DX (she told me she it was a Vision DX and that she was still making payments so I did the math).
According to the current picture she sent me the monitor is LG 24M45H-8, it has an OEM Windows 8 key, and the psu is SeaSonic SS-300TFX Bronze 300W (so not good).
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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 1, 2014 7:13:05 PM

michellej_s said:
Just in case it matters the lady from work selling the desktop got back to me with more info and I am pretty sure it is almost the same as this:
http://www.mdg.ca/finance/Desktops.aspx# Vision DX (she told me she it was a Vision DX and that she was still making payments so I did the math).
According to the current picture she sent me the monitor is LG 24M45H-8, it has an OEM Windows 8 key, and the psu is SeaSonic SS-300TFX Bronze 300W (so not good).


Actually, it's a great PSU, it's just not very capable. Really good for minimal systems, and I'm awfully surprised it came in a pre-built unit, but not much good for any system with a GPU card of any capability beyond what onboard graphics can provide.

The Antec is a great PSU too so that can probably be reused. Throw the Dell PSU away, it's junk. I'm going to work up a system for you that will fall within the 600 dollar budget you originally outlined for purchase of the other unit which I think is probably not going to be the best use of your money. Then, you can take the rest of everything else that's left, using the best parts of each, and build a second system. Afterwards there will likely be enough left over for use as a media server that really doesn't have to be anywhere near as fast as the daily drivers.
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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 1, 2014 7:20:31 PM

michellej_s said:
I will get back to you with my parts list of what I have for each computer. Thanks alot for helping me with this. I tend to get stuck and either go way to cheap or go overkill. Plus I end up with analysis paralysis.


Heh. Yeah, I think we all do that sometimes regardless of experience or skill level.
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October 1, 2014 7:25:17 PM

darkbreeze said:
michellej_s said:
Just in case it matters the lady from work selling the desktop got back to me with more info and I am pretty sure it is almost the same as this:
http://www.mdg.ca/finance/Desktops.aspx# Vision DX (she told me she it was a Vision DX and that she was still making payments so I did the math).
According to the current picture she sent me the monitor is LG 24M45H-8, it has an OEM Windows 8 key, and the psu is SeaSonic SS-300TFX Bronze 300W (so not good).


Actually, it's a great PSU, it's just not very capable. Really good for minimal systems, and I'm awfully surprised it came in a pre-built unit, but not much good for any system with a GPU card of any capability beyond what onboard graphics can provide.

The Antec is a great PSU too so that can probably be reused. Throw the Dell PSU away, it's junk. I'm going to work up a system for you that will fall within the 600 dollar budget you originally outlined for purchase of the other unit which I think is probably not going to be the best use of your money. Then, you can take the rest of everything else that's left, using the best parts of each, and build a second system. Afterwards there will likely be enough left over for use as a media server that really doesn't have to be anywhere near as fast as the daily drivers.


That would be awesome.

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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 1, 2014 7:48:11 PM

Well, the dual X 280 GPU definitely isn't crappy, unless something is wrong with it. So I would definitely want to reuse that for computer number 2. The other card, GTS250 sucks and can be used in the server since it doesn't need good graphics, just good enough to make configuration changes when necessary.

The Extreme ATX 450 RSY-645 is also extremely cheap, can be had new for under 25.00 and I wouldn't use it to power a light bulb much less an expensive piece of equiptment. So we're kinda short in the PSU department. We'll need a PSU for the number 2 system, if you take my advice and not reuse those timebombs, and one for the server. I'll try to budget it all in to the amount discussed, if possible.
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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 1, 2014 7:53:07 PM

Can you tell me what the brand and exact model number of the dual 280x GPU is. I'd like to include the exact card in one of the builds, for two reasons.

One, the 280x is a high powered card capable of gaming just about any title at medium or high settings.

Two, using an identical GPU in both systems gives you a distinct advantage in that if later on you may decide to get a better or newer card for one of the systems, the second card could be added into the system of one of the rigs for a crossfire setup that would significantly increase the gaming horsepower of that rig to the level that whatever new card you put in the other system might not even be as capable as that one would now be.

It really depends on the seriousness of your level of gaming though. A lot of titles don't demand that much horsepower while with many titles you just can't get enough. Either way, you win. You either have two very good cards now and likely for many years to come, hardware failures aside, or you end up with two heavy hitters later.
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October 1, 2014 8:20:30 PM

Re Power Supplies.
i'm guessing you've had some consequences from using a cheap psu in the past? Beyond that of just having to replace it?
I would rather be safe then sorry. I will check out my other old computer and try to pick up the other computer coming my way. Maybe one of them will have something good enough for for the server computer so I won't have to buy one. If not then oh well.
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October 1, 2014 8:42:37 PM

The 280x is a Sapphire. Here is a link: http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=4...

As for how hardcore we are as gamers: I'd say moderately hardcore. I've always been more concerned with loading times (as long as the graphics were good enough that I could still see what was going on) then fps. I play games like Simcity and other simulators (Civ, Railway Tycoon). RPGs like Fallout, Oblivion and I also play stuff like GTA and Dead Rising (probably my favourite series). Neither of us play any MMOs although I have been planning on playing DayZ with some friends. In fact neither of us ever play online (I would never ever get anything done ever). My fiance plays mostly RPGs. She has taken several days off to play the new Dragon Age game. We both use mods but her more. She has even made mods. I'm not sure what level of seriousness that is.

One thing I will say is that it was awesome playing Dead Rising 3. It was the first game I played with the 280x and it was nice having shiny graphics. The card I had before that was a 7770 and I had no issues with it. Everything played okay. Its just that it completly stopped working at some point this summer. So I'm good with getting an identical card but I'm also good with going cheaper.

darkbreeze said:
Can you tell me what the brand and exact model number of the dual 280x GPU is. I'd like to include the exact card in one of the builds, for two reasons.

One, the 280x is a high powered card capable of gaming just about any title at medium or high settings.

Two, using an identical GPU in both systems gives you a distinct advantage in that if later on you may decide to get a better or newer card for one of the systems, the second card could be added into the system of one of the rigs for a crossfire setup that would significantly increase the gaming horsepower of that rig to the level that whatever new card you put in the other system might not even be as capable as that one would now be.

It really depends on the seriousness of your level of gaming though. A lot of titles don't demand that much horsepower while with many titles you just can't get enough. Either way, you win. You either have two very good cards now and likely for many years to come, hardware failures aside, or you end up with two heavy hitters later.


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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 1, 2014 8:43:36 PM

michellej_s said:
Re Power Supplies.
i'm guessing you've had some consequences from using a cheap psu in the past? Beyond that of just having to replace it?
I would rather be safe then sorry. I will check out my other old computer and try to pick up the other computer coming my way. Maybe one of them will have something good enough for for the server computer so I won't have to buy one. If not then oh well.


That's kinda what I was thinking. While you still don't want something lousy in the server, it's not AS critical as units with fast cpus and big cards since demand on the PSU will probably never be that high.
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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 1, 2014 8:51:22 PM

michellej_s said:
As for how hardcore we are as gamers: I'd say moderately hardcore. I've always been more concerned with loading times (as long as the graphics were good enough that I could still see what was going on) then fps.


Loading times are all on the SSD and CPU, mostly. FPS is the card, as I'm sure you know. So if loading times are critical you want a good PSU, CPU and SSD along with an acceptable GPU.
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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 1, 2014 9:00:55 PM

Actually, your PSU is underpowered for the GPU card you have as set by Sapphires recommendations seen here:

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/produc...

So while it might work, it really doesn't meet the recommended minimum. I'd use it for the second system.

PCI Express® based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard.
â—¾2X75 Watt 6-pin PCI Express power connector is required for CrossFireXâ„¢ system.
â—¾1X75 Watt 6-pin PCI Express power connector is required.
â—¾4096MBMinimum of system memory.
â—¾Installation software requires CD-ROM drive.
â—¾DVD playback requires DVD drive.
â—¾Blu-rayâ„¢ / HD DVD playback requires Blu-ray / HD DVD drive.
â—¾750 Watt Power Supply is required.
â—¾1000WattPower Supply is recommended for CrossFireXâ„¢ System.
â—¾1X150 Watt 8-pin PCI Express power connector is required.
â—¾2X150 Watt 8-pin PCI Express power connector is required for CrossFireXâ„¢ system.
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October 1, 2014 9:01:44 PM

Decent loading times are important to me but at there is still the law of diminishing returns. I wouldn't be paying a ton of money to shave 1 second off a loading screen or anything like that. I just don't like sitting around waiting either. A happy medium is fine.

darkbreeze said:
michellej_s said:
As for how hardcore we are as gamers: I'd say moderately hardcore. I've always been more concerned with loading times (as long as the graphics were good enough that I could still see what was going on) then fps.


Loading times are all on the SSD and CPU, mostly. FPS is the card, as I'm sure you know. So if loading times are critical you want a good PSU, CPU and SSD along with an acceptable GPU.


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October 1, 2014 9:04:57 PM

Yeah, thats my bad. I actually thought I had a 750Watt power supply in it. And 8 Gigs of Ram. I have done so many changes/upgrades/replacement parts to my computers in the past I obviously can't keep track.

darkbreeze said:
Actually, your PSU is underpowered for the GPU card you have as set by Sapphires recommendations seen here:

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/produc...

So while it might work, it really doesn't meet the recommended minimum. I'd use it for the second system.

PCI Express® based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard.
â—¾2X75 Watt 6-pin PCI Express power connector is required for CrossFireXâ„¢ system.
â—¾1X75 Watt 6-pin PCI Express power connector is required.
â—¾4096MBMinimum of system memory.
â—¾Installation software requires CD-ROM drive.
â—¾DVD playback requires DVD drive.
â—¾Blu-rayâ„¢ / HD DVD playback requires Blu-ray / HD DVD drive.
â—¾750 Watt Power Supply is required.
â—¾1000WattPower Supply is recommended for CrossFireXâ„¢ System.
â—¾1X150 Watt 8-pin PCI Express power connector is required.
â—¾2X150 Watt 8-pin PCI Express power connector is required for CrossFireXâ„¢ system.


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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 1, 2014 9:32:19 PM

Let's wait and see what the other computer brings you in the way of parts. I really didn't expect this, and I feel bad for you up there, but the cost of hardware is WAY more expensive than down here in the States. I can't even get the minimum parts with a half decent 270x card and a monitor for the budget. I'll try to rework some things and see what I can come up with in the meantime.
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October 1, 2014 9:44:01 PM

No problem. I'll see if I can pick it up tomorrow. My friend was going to bring it to D&D last weekend but forgot, but will probably be cool with me picking it up.

As for the cost of parts: I get sad and jealous everytime I see American prices for parts (and most other things). I'm also going to look into trying to fix my Monitor. Based on the symptom it is most likely the power inverter which is not really worth replacing by the time you factor the price and shipping in. However apparently most of the time it is the capacitors and/or the fuse. Unfortunately I'm kind of crappy at soldering and have a serious phobia of electrocution and power supplies thanks to one of my electronics teachers dire warnings and a few shocks from less scary stuff. However if I am careful I might be able to do it. If thats actually the problem. Otherwise I could maybe get one used from kijiji.

Also there is a 24 inch Monitor on sale this week at NCIX.ca for $150 according to the flyer I just got in my email. Thats about as cheap as they ever get though.

I will get back to you tomorrow about the psu in the other computer.

Also do the higher Canadian prices make the original computer seem like a better deal or do you still think I can do better?
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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 1, 2014 10:02:30 PM

Actually, it's not that bad of a setup, problem being, the HD graphics it comes with are INCREDIBLY lousy, making gaming practically impossible, so you would still need to add a card and probably a PSU for one rig or the other. By the time you do that, it's not a very good deal anymore. Sigh. Sometimes I wish I was extremely rich and could just put systems together and give them to folks who both need and would appreciate them. But alas, I cannot. Heh.
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October 1, 2014 10:57:41 PM

Ok. No problem. I will get back to you tomorrow.
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October 2, 2014 10:10:50 PM

I picked up the computer and this is what was in it:
Salvaged Computer:
MotherBoard: I don't know -could not find any info
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 Dual-Core 2.2 GHz E2200
Memory: 2X2GB DDR2 Ram
GPU: Zotac GTS-250 1GB ZT-20106
PSU: RocketFish 700W RF-700-WPS2
HDD: Western Digital Caviar HDD

Also in the spirit of our discussion about PSUs I read this article/review of the PSU:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/556
What I understood from that article is that this particular power supply is not that energy effiecient and is overpriced but should be safe enough to use. Let me know if I got that right?
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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 2, 2014 10:19:37 PM

Nope. It's on the discard immediately Tier list. They don't put PSUs on that Tier unless they have very, very poor internal components or the build quality is so low that it has a very high expectation of severe failure. Here is the Tier list. I thought I gave it to you before but I guess I didn't because I don't see in earlier posts. If you go to the bottom of the first post, which is the PSU listings, you'll see Rocketfish.

If they don't list a model but they list a manufacturer, it's considered that the manufacturer in question does not build any reliable models. OEMs that have some good and some bad models will have PSUs listed both high and low on the list. If they are in just one place, and that place is at the bottom, don't use it. Years of testing have gone into that list and it is highly accurate.:

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1804779/power-su...

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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 2, 2014 10:28:48 PM

Plus, if you go to the last page of that review, conclusions, they clearly state that it has problems with noise and ripples and does not have the necessary 6/8 pin connectors necessary for GPU cards other than low end cards powered by the motherboard it's useless.
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October 3, 2014 11:48:15 AM

Got it. I have now bookmarked that page and will refer to it in the future when purchasing psu's.

I'm trying to come up with a plan to get the most bang for my buck. I'm thinking about some combination of used parts on Redflag deals and waiting for Black Friday and Boxing Day for anything that I need to replace but can wait for a better price. Black Friday is not nearly as big in Canada as it is in the US but retailers here are trying to make it a thing and in the last few years there have been some good deals to be had. Boxing Day is the day that has the best sales up here. I figure I will try to make a list of what I want in advance and if a good deal comes up then I will pick it up.

In the meantime I was considering a
Corsair TX750M V1 - 750w psu
Used $40 from a guy on RedFlagDeals who lives in the same city.
Here is the link: http://forums.redflagdeals.com/msi-780-ti-corsair-tx750...

You now have me convinced that a decent psu should be my top priority and that I'm just lucky I have never had any PSU problems in the past.

I was also considering going with one of these used gpu's
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/150-gtx-660-ti-1554473/
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/lnib-gigabyte-gtx-750-ti...
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/asus-gtx660ti-1566001/
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/sapphire-r9-280x-vaporx-...

Then I could wait for the ideal (I'm not sure what that is?) MB/CPU combo to go on sale. I think that would be all I would need for 3 decent computers except possibly 2-4GB more ram for the second gaming computer.

None of this includes the monitor but I was talking to a friend and we have decided to tackle that this weekend as an experiment. Its already broken anyway. So I'm going to leave that one up in the air for a few more days.

Let me know what you think?
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Best solution

a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 3, 2014 5:02:58 PM

Obviously I don't know your job or financial situation, or if time may provide some additional funding beyond what was previously outlined, but here is what my recommendation would be. I'd get a new GPU card for the other system. Yeah, there might be a little bottlenecking going on for the time being on really intense game play but not much for RPG's probably. Or at least not enough to cause it to not still be tons better than with the card currently in use.

I'd get two PSU's. One for system 2 and one for the server.

And I'd get a new monitor.

Later on, after saving a few bucks, I'd get a new motherboard and cpu, install that in system 1, use the 8320 and motherboard for system 2 and drop system 2's current cpu and motherboard (Or whatever one you want to use for that) into the server at that time.

This way, nomatter what, you've got three good PSUs to work with for now and after any upgrades later. You'll also already have two good cards that can be moved to any system with no problem but will still provide a performance increase for the here and now.

And of course, without a monitor, you can't do crap anyhow so you have to have that.

Just an idea, and I realize doing everything at once would be more desireable, but doing this in two parts might be what you need to do so you can save some cash for the cpu and motherboard at a little later time but still get some good gains for at least one of the systems now, plus utilize a media server in the interim period.

And after checking with a few folks here that have a bit more experience on the 280X than I do, they have confirmed that a 650W is fine for a single R9 280X but a 600W is probably not enough to not have a possibility of issues.


I'd probably do something like this:

Get two of these, one each for systems 1 and 2 and use your current 600W for the server.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Power Supply: XFX 650W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($59.99 @ NCIX)
Total: $59.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-03 19:52 EDT-0400

Get one of these cards for system 2. It's not as powerful as the 280X but it will work very well for most games out there except the most demanding and only then if you're on high or ultra settings. For most titles it would be fine even on high settings.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 270X 2GB Double Dissipation Video Card ($169.99 @ NCIX)
Total: $169.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-03 19:58 EDT-0400

And a decent monitor. Don't go with a used monitor. Most people give up their monitors or get new ones for a reason and that reason is usually because some kind of undesireable behavior has been displayed by the unit. Plus, you get no realistic warranty on used units so it may be a waste of money and in three months you could be back to square one again.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Monitor: Asus VE247H 23.6" Monitor ($149.99 @ NCIX)
Total: $149.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-03 20:01 EDT-0400

There are 60.00 in mail in rebates included in these prices, so there will be a little bit more initial investment that it seems, but I've had good luck with MIR on hardware and so I'd count on making good on those so long as you follow through.

Total after rebates, $439.00 Canadian prices.
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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 3, 2014 6:55:13 PM

Then, when you're ready, and this selection is mainly for budget purposes but is still able to game anything out there, you could go with this. Add a good aftermarket cooler ( Hyper 212 EVO is a good budget choice) at any point thereafter and you can take this to 4.5Ghz easily, and with your other 8320 as well, but don't try it with the stock cooler. At 4.5Ghz paired with your R9 280x it should play pretty much anything out there with really decent settings. This is a really decent budget overclocking board, probably the best your can get under 100.00 for any AM3+ cpu.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD FX-8320 3.5GHz 8-Core Processor ($158.95 @ Vuugo)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3P ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($98.50 @ Vuugo)
Total: $257.45
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-03 21:50 EDT-0400

Of course, an Intel setup would be a stronger performer, but what the hell, good is good and the Intel stuff is much more expensive.
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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 3, 2014 8:34:38 PM

Actually, those cards are so closely matched it really depends on what game is being played as to which card performs better. They will trade performance leads depending on the title being played. So in that case it's really a matter of do I prefer NVidia or AMD. Personally, I like AMD better than the older NVidia cards but I like NVidia better than AMD when it comes to the newer hardware.
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October 6, 2014 1:56:32 PM

Thanks alot for your help. I already ordered the graphics card (free shipping) and I'm going to head out and pick up the psus and monitor some time this week. I'll probably wait another paycheck or 2 on the mb/cpu combo since they are less urgent but I think I will get the ones you recommended. I always liked AMD anyway. I was just a little wary since I had whatever model came right before the FX-8320 (bulldozer?) and the damn thing melted down after about 10 months and just started chronically overheating and then died in the span of about two weeks. I'm hoping that was just a fluke. I replaced it with the FX8320 last winter and it has been perfect since so maybe I just got unlucky. At the time I swore I was never going to buy AMD again but I can't really justify the extra $100 -$200 it would cost to go with Intel when realistically I will never notice the difference any.

I have bookmarked the PSU list and will refer to it from now on when building a new computer or evaluating a psu in a computer given to me. Thanks very much again.
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a b ) Power supply
a b B Homebuilt system
October 6, 2014 6:36:15 PM

You have to also understand that any given CPU will perform differently and exhibit different thermal characteristics when installed in motherboards of varying quality. An 8350 that overheats excessively in, lets say, a Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3, when overclocked or even just pushed with a full load, may never even get past 60c when overclocked and at full load in a higher quality board like one of the ASUS ROG boards or a Sabertooth.

The design of the motherboard itself and the quality of the components used to build it including the VRMs and VRM heatsinks, can play a major role. It also matters how a given board handles voltage. Some do a great job while others are rather borderline. Borderline can turn into, ah shit, real fast.

Your system doesn't even have to have a manual overclock for problems to present themselves since most systems these days are designed to turbo the cpu clock and voltage by default. On most setups, they err on the side of caution as far as stability by using a high voltage than what you would probably use when doing it manually, which creates additional, and unnecessary heat. That's another reason why it's always a good idea to go with a GOOD aftermarket CPU cooler even if you have no plans to overclock.

Oh, it's getting overclocked, whether you like it or not and whether you do it manually or not. Setting the system up to not turbo at all generally can become a nuisance because it wants to turbo. It's been told that's what it's supposed to do and all the supporting firmware is designed around the idea that the system will be calling the shots, including what the cpu clock speed is at. Plus, performance suffers quite a bit if you don't have either a decent overclock or have the turbo core enabled.

So that chip that failed on you may have just been a bad chip that got hot, you could have had a fan that failed or just a cheap motherboard. OR, the PSU could have had something to do with it if it was a poor quality unit that got pissed about being alive, so to speak.
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