Is Imaging just a backup ?
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Storage
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rszanti
October 7, 2014 2:00:48 PM
I see another user asked this question back in 2011. I also see he didn't get an answer. I have the same concerns, does a hard drive "image" include the programs (executables) because a MS backup does not. I created a total backup of my hard drive and when the drive failed I was surprised to discover I had to go through finding and re-installing all of the MS programs. A "backup" does not copy programs !!! Even more frustrating was trying to find and re-install all of the third party programs I had accumulated on my machine. In any case, when doing a hard drive backup are the executables copied or not ? And is it possible to restore just one directory or file, etc. after a problem ?
Richard
Richard
More about : imaging backup
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CmdrJeffSinclair
October 7, 2014 2:05:22 PM
No, a backup is just that...a full-on backup of everything. Windows creates a system image which mirrors your system itself but not programs, which is why when you use system restore any installed programs prior to the restoration point you chose will be erased since they are not "imaged." If you want a backup, the best way is to simply buy a large secondary hard drive or an external drive, or whatever suits your backup preferences. Backups don't need to be anything special, but a Windows Image is far from a backup, otherwise system images would be the same size as all your installed/saved data!!!
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CmdrJeffSinclair
October 7, 2014 2:21:40 PM
the best thing to do in order to back up files is simply to get another hard drive, whether it's internal or external is a preference. No bells or whistles are need since it's not meant for speed so you could spend very little money and get a titanic drive for the sole purposes of backups. Imaging unfortunately isn't the greatest. If you want fast and reliable backups you can either do it yourself by copying over new files from the main hard drive to the backup, or you can setup a RAID array which will automatically copy any new files to the backup as they are created (doubling transfer times though).
Personally, I installed a backup hard drive and once I copied everything over once, the rest was easy. Programs won't copy over very successfully but then again if something goes wrong you have to reinstall programs anyway due to the registry.
This is all preferential, and since you seem like a beginner, setting up a RAID array for mirroring drives might be a little daunting, so I'd say just get a new hard drive (cheap but as large as you need) and install it, or get an external hard drive.
Personally, I installed a backup hard drive and once I copied everything over once, the rest was easy. Programs won't copy over very successfully but then again if something goes wrong you have to reinstall programs anyway due to the registry.
This is all preferential, and since you seem like a beginner, setting up a RAID array for mirroring drives might be a little daunting, so I'd say just get a new hard drive (cheap but as large as you need) and install it, or get an external hard drive.
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rszanti said:
I see another user asked this question back in 2011. I also see he didn't get an answer. I have the same concerns, does a hard drive "image" include the programs (executables) because a MS backup does not. I created a total backup of my hard drive and when the drive failed I was surprised to discover I had to go through finding and re-installing all of the MS programs. A "backup" does not copy programs !!! Even more frustrating was trying to find and re-install all of the third party programs I had accumulated on my machine. In any case, when doing a hard drive backup are the executables copied or not ? And is it possible to restore just one directory or file, etc. after a problem ?Richard
Yes it does.
A disk image is just that, it's a snapshot of the entire volume's contents at the point in time that the image was created. This includes everything on the disk, exactly as it was. Restoring a disk from an image will restore it exactly as it was. The caveat of disk imaging is that disk images include absolutely everything, including stuff that is otherwise easily replaced. This increases the size of the backup tremendously to the point that storing the image itself can be troublesome.
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Markkk
October 7, 2014 2:53:53 PM
Image = Total 1-1 clone of your drive
Backup = usually files only - typically sequential and easy to do on a regular basis
If your paranoid image your drive monthly and use backup software daily
That way if you loose a file you can restore it quickly from a backup... If your dive fails or becomes infected with a nasty virus you can simple replace it with your Cloned image/drive - then restore backup files
# Images take a while to create - several hours...
Programs that copy entire Windows OS with installed programs have the tags'
Clone, Image, Ghost, Mirror, Shadow
- This software also creates a boot CD or USB bootable drive to allow the Image to be Restored back to the drive outside the OS.
# Backups usually done in minutes - usually sequentially for speed and space
Programs that just backup documents and files have tags'
Backup, Synchronize, Zip, Cloud, dropbox, livedrive
- Backup Programs need a working OS to restore files back to the drive.
Hope this sheds more to these terms.
Backup = usually files only - typically sequential and easy to do on a regular basis
If your paranoid image your drive monthly and use backup software daily
That way if you loose a file you can restore it quickly from a backup... If your dive fails or becomes infected with a nasty virus you can simple replace it with your Cloned image/drive - then restore backup files
# Images take a while to create - several hours...
Programs that copy entire Windows OS with installed programs have the tags'
Clone, Image, Ghost, Mirror, Shadow
- This software also creates a boot CD or USB bootable drive to allow the Image to be Restored back to the drive outside the OS.
# Backups usually done in minutes - usually sequentially for speed and space
Programs that just backup documents and files have tags'
Backup, Synchronize, Zip, Cloud, dropbox, livedrive
- Backup Programs need a working OS to restore files back to the drive.
Hope this sheds more to these terms.
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CmdrJeffSinclair
October 7, 2014 3:32:22 PM
you cant consider an image as a legit backup though because it cant be accessed as data. So if you accidentally lose/delete the image or if a system restore fails then all data is gone forever. Windows also auto-deletes images every 10th image, so after 9 restore points are created every 10th image is deleted.
The only legit way to back up data is by copying the data. Not only that, if a hard drive fails and your backups are on the same drive then you'll still lose all your data. If your backups are on the same drive as windows and corruptions occur or viruses then sometimes you'll lose data simply because you'll have to do a clean install of windows to get rid of the virus but wont be able to if all your backup data is on that drive.
There are 100 more reasons why a separate drive is needed for really important data but it's up to you.
The only legit way to back up data is by copying the data. Not only that, if a hard drive fails and your backups are on the same drive then you'll still lose all your data. If your backups are on the same drive as windows and corruptions occur or viruses then sometimes you'll lose data simply because you'll have to do a clean install of windows to get rid of the virus but wont be able to if all your backup data is on that drive.
There are 100 more reasons why a separate drive is needed for really important data but it's up to you.
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CmdrJeffSinclair
October 8, 2014 12:54:25 PM
Hawkeye22 said:
@ CmdrJeffSinclairYou are confusing images with windows restore points. These are not the same. Pinhedd's explanation is spot on. Also, some software will allow you to mount an image so that you can extract individual files instead of having to restore the entire volume.
Yeah I said all of that because it's pretty apparent he is not really sure of what he's talking about. One of the first things I've come to understand about people trying to grasp backup solutions and imaging is that they are almost always referring to other features, usually system restore shadow volumes (restore points) rather than actual images. From what I gathered the basics of what he wanted to ask us was what is the best way to make backups of a computer, so I just gave my two cents for hard drive backups
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CmdrJeffSinclair said:
you cant consider an image as a legit backup though because it cant be accessed as data. So if you accidentally lose/delete the image or if a system restore fails then all data is gone forever. Windows also auto-deletes images every 10th image, so after 9 restore points are created every 10th image is deleted. The only legit way to back up data is by copying the data. Not only that, if a hard drive fails and your backups are on the same drive then you'll still lose all your data. If your backups are on the same drive as windows and corruptions occur or viruses then sometimes you'll lose data simply because you'll have to do a clean install of windows to get rid of the virus but wont be able to if all your backup data is on that drive.
There are 100 more reasons why a separate drive is needed for really important data but it's up to you.
Images can easily be mounted if they contain a filesystem that the kernel understands.
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CmdrJeffSinclair
October 8, 2014 3:50:18 PM
Pinhedd said:
CmdrJeffSinclair said:
you cant consider an image as a legit backup though because it cant be accessed as data. So if you accidentally lose/delete the image or if a system restore fails then all data is gone forever. Windows also auto-deletes images every 10th image, so after 9 restore points are created every 10th image is deleted. The only legit way to back up data is by copying the data. Not only that, if a hard drive fails and your backups are on the same drive then you'll still lose all your data. If your backups are on the same drive as windows and corruptions occur or viruses then sometimes you'll lose data simply because you'll have to do a clean install of windows to get rid of the virus but wont be able to if all your backup data is on that drive.
There are 100 more reasons why a separate drive is needed for really important data but it's up to you.
Images can easily be mounted if they contain a filesystem that the kernel understands.
if...lots of if's
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CmdrJeffSinclair said:
Pinhedd said:
CmdrJeffSinclair said:
you cant consider an image as a legit backup though because it cant be accessed as data. So if you accidentally lose/delete the image or if a system restore fails then all data is gone forever. Windows also auto-deletes images every 10th image, so after 9 restore points are created every 10th image is deleted. The only legit way to back up data is by copying the data. Not only that, if a hard drive fails and your backups are on the same drive then you'll still lose all your data. If your backups are on the same drive as windows and corruptions occur or viruses then sometimes you'll lose data simply because you'll have to do a clean install of windows to get rid of the virus but wont be able to if all your backup data is on that drive.
There are 100 more reasons why a separate drive is needed for really important data but it's up to you.
Images can easily be mounted if they contain a filesystem that the kernel understands.
if...lots of if's
There's only one if in there. The NT kernel supports the NTFS, FAT16/32, ExFAT, UDF, CDFS, ReFS (Server 2012 and newer only) and perhaps a few other file systems. As long as the disk image contains a file system and the operating system has a driver to handle the disk image container (Windows 8 has this built in for many image container formats) it can be mounted without issue.
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CmdrJeffSinclair
October 8, 2014 9:19:08 PM
One if? You just named a few. An image requires a specified file system type and a specific means to read and unload the image in order to be usable. People don't want their data bound to a single computer because everything is interconnected these days. So the truth is that dual hard drives are popular because they beat all other backup solutions into nothingness.
Wanna know how to make a backup on a hard drive work on any computer device? An OS. Even android OS's work with hard drives. Not only that, a hard drive can connect to anything these days with the right connector so even phones and tablets can be backed up onto the same PC hard drive, and then all files can go anywhere with the right connection.
An image doesn't hold a candle to the portability and universal abilities of a simple second hard drive! Even systems that are not familiar with specific file system types can still access the drive to copy data in most instances.
I took my PS3 and plugged in my laptop's HDD, but even though the PS3 only officially supports FAT32, my NTFS was still accessible just like any old flash drive and it was readable and all the data could still be copied over anyway. This is just a few of the perks to getting a second hard drive and they are as little, large, fancy or cheap as you want them to be.
If images were so great then you'd have a fun time explaining why 99% of people don't use em and don't even know the differences between any of the different types of images.
All my data on all of my hard drives will be with me forever and can connect to anything I want, so I will never be without my games, music, or pictures. An image will always be limited to that particular imaging tech, files system type, and will never be compatible with anything else that is not a Windows OS without 3rd party software which comes at a price.
Don't be intimidated by the copying of files every day to a second hard drive. It takes no expertise and only takes seconds. An image is very complicated and limited from the get-go and will never be a universal backup.
Wanna know how to make a backup on a hard drive work on any computer device? An OS. Even android OS's work with hard drives. Not only that, a hard drive can connect to anything these days with the right connector so even phones and tablets can be backed up onto the same PC hard drive, and then all files can go anywhere with the right connection.
An image doesn't hold a candle to the portability and universal abilities of a simple second hard drive! Even systems that are not familiar with specific file system types can still access the drive to copy data in most instances.
I took my PS3 and plugged in my laptop's HDD, but even though the PS3 only officially supports FAT32, my NTFS was still accessible just like any old flash drive and it was readable and all the data could still be copied over anyway. This is just a few of the perks to getting a second hard drive and they are as little, large, fancy or cheap as you want them to be.
If images were so great then you'd have a fun time explaining why 99% of people don't use em and don't even know the differences between any of the different types of images.
All my data on all of my hard drives will be with me forever and can connect to anything I want, so I will never be without my games, music, or pictures. An image will always be limited to that particular imaging tech, files system type, and will never be compatible with anything else that is not a Windows OS without 3rd party software which comes at a price.
Don't be intimidated by the copying of files every day to a second hard drive. It takes no expertise and only takes seconds. An image is very complicated and limited from the get-go and will never be a universal backup.
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One if? You just named a few. An image requires a specified file system type and a specific means to read and unload the image in order to be usable. People don't want their data bound to a single computer because everything is interconnected these days. So the truth is that dual hard drives are popular because they beat all other backup solutions into nothingness. An operating system needs an appropriate file system driver regardless of whether or not the volume is mounted from an image or a physical disk. This neither simplifies nor complicates anything. Furthermore, the OP was inquiring about imaging for the purposes of data retention, not data portability.
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Wanna know how to make a backup on a hard drive work on any computer device? An OS. Even android OS's work with hard drives. Not only that, a hard drive can connect to anything these days with the right connector so even phones and tablets can be backed up onto the same PC hard drive, and then all files can go anywhere with the right connection. Of course Android supports hard disk drives, it uses Linux for its kernel.
A hard disk can only be attached via an adapter if the device has support for that adapter as well. UAS<->ATA bridges are pretty well supported by most major operating systems but that falls short of "any". The hard disk drive must still have a file system that's supported by the operating system(s) that the user intends to use it with. FAT32 is the only HDD filesystem that is universally support by all major operating systems without third party drivers, so enjoy that 4GiB file size limit.
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An image doesn't hold a candle to the portability and universal abilities of a simple second hard drive! Even systems that are not familiar with specific file system types can still access the drive to copy data in most instances.Sure they can! They can access it at the block level to copy the entire contents to another device; like an image. That or they can access it to damage the data on the drive because the kernel has no understanding of the semantics of the filesystem. I've had more than one bad run in with poorly written file system drivers.
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I took my PS3 and plugged in my laptop's HDD, but even though the PS3 only officially supports FAT32, my NTFS was still accessible just like any old flash drive and it was readable and all the data could still be copied over anyway. This is just a few of the perks to getting a second hard drive and they are as little, large, fancy or cheap as you want them to be.Unmodded PS3s do not support NTFS. I suggest that you try your experiment again.
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If images were so great then you'd have a fun time explaining why 99% of people don't use em and don't even know the differences between any of the different types of images.They don't use them because they're cumbersome to store work with. Most users aren't particularly adverse to reinstalling software, they just don't want to lose their user data. An image is exactly what I said it was above, a byte for byte snapshot of a block device's contents.
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All my data on all of my hard drives will be with me forever and can connect to anything I want, so I will never be without my games, music, or pictures. An image will always be limited to that particular imaging tech, files system type, and will never be compatible with anything else that is not a Windows OS without 3rd party software which comes at a price.The data on your hard drives will be with you until you suffer a hard disk failure.
There is nothing fancy about most image techs. In fact, there is nothing at all to the common iso file. In fact, it's nothing more than a sector-by-sector concatenation of the volume data. No compression, no header, nothing.
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Don't be intimidated by the copying of files every day to a second hard drive. It takes no expertise and only takes seconds. An image is very complicated and limited from the get-go and will never be a universal backup.Copying data affects file attributes and filesystem fragmentation. Imaging is extremely simple and encapsulates the volume exactly as is without bothering the target's file system driver.
You're being belligerent and overly argumentative for the wrong reasons.
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CmdrJeffSinclair
October 9, 2014 11:07:44 AM
Hawkeye22 said:
I can confirm that an unmooded PS3 can't read NTFS. I have a 1TB drive partitioned into a 700Gb NTFS partition and a 300Gb FAT32 partition that I use for my PS3 backups. I use a USB HDD dock to transport between my PC and PS3. My PC sees both partitions. My PS3 only sees the FAT32 partition.I can confirm it can. I used a 2.5" internal drive ntfs
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http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/...
This also pertains to system backups. As for the PS3's internal drive which house the OS, it's a proprietary format.
Hints
This feature can be used to back up data on Memory Stick™, SD Memory Card, Compact Flash®, and USB mass storage devices. An appropriate USB adaptor (not included) is required to use storage media with some models of the PS3™ system. Disc media such as CD-R cannot be used.
A USB hard disk can also be used to back up data. Note however that the disk must be formatted as a FAT32 file system to be recognized by the PS3™ system. A hard disk that is formatted as NTFS (NT file system) cannot be recognized by the PS3™ system.
Backed up content cannot be played from storage media. To play the content you must first restore it to the system storage of the PS3™ system.
This also pertains to system backups. As for the PS3's internal drive which house the OS, it's a proprietary format.
Hints
This feature can be used to back up data on Memory Stick™, SD Memory Card, Compact Flash®, and USB mass storage devices. An appropriate USB adaptor (not included) is required to use storage media with some models of the PS3™ system. Disc media such as CD-R cannot be used.
A USB hard disk can also be used to back up data. Note however that the disk must be formatted as a FAT32 file system to be recognized by the PS3™ system. A hard disk that is formatted as NTFS (NT file system) cannot be recognized by the PS3™ system.
Backed up content cannot be played from storage media. To play the content you must first restore it to the system storage of the PS3™ system.
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