Fiber Network Issues

RickeyP21

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Oct 13, 2014
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Hello everyone. First time poster here. We are having problems with a network connection at our business. We have hired people to come out and look at certain things, and nothing seems to work, and after some searches online before I have found that Tom's seems to have a lot of answers, so I'm hoping you guys might be able to help me. Please be aware I have no fiber experience what-so-ever. Everything I know I literally learned last night reading about fiber connections when attempting to find a solution to this issue.

Our current setup has us on fiber for our internet connection. We have had this for about 4 and a half years with no issues. We also have a mechanic's shop on our land that is about 800 ft from where the fiber comes in. The company that sold us the fiber agreed to run fiber to this shop from where they brought the fiber into our server room. I know that both the fiber coming in and the fiber between the server room and the shop is single mode fiber.

On the server room end, this company installed a Nortel 3510-24T switch with a US Critical J4858C 1000Base-SX SFP MMF 850nm, 550NM, LC mini-gbic. From this mini-gbic, there is a milti-mode LC/SC patch cable connecting it to the box on the wall that runs to the shop.

On the mechanic's shop end, there is a HP Procurve 2810-24G switch with a Procurve Networking J4858C mini-gbic installed. (The other information is not written on this one, but it looks like it's basically the same as the US critical one above. It does list 850nm on it at least.) From this mini-gbic, there is a multi-mode LC/SC cable connecting it to the fiber patch box on the wall.

This connection has a couple of issues that I am now aware of. Single-mode fiber running between the buildings, with multi-mode patch cables on each end and what I now understand to be multi-mode mini-gbics in each of the switches. However, this setup was not changed in any way, worked for at least 4 years, and started becoming intermittent about 3 weeks ago. The users in the shop started complaining of slow speeds and then dropping connections. Then the connections quit working completely and the switches would not link up.

Knowing nothing about fiber, I called a local support company that handles most of this stuff, and they sent someone out. He was able to login to the nortel switch and found a lot of errors and packet loss, and he said it was the switch. We wanted to replace the very old Nortel anyway, so we ordered a new switch, a Brocade ICX 6430-24. We moved the mini-gbic from the Nortel, which the tech said was still working and would work in the Brocade, into the new one and reconnected. They linked up, and the shop computers began working and had normal speeds.

2 days later, the slow speeds returned and intermittent network drops started back up. Then the connection failed completely and the link between the devices went down. I moved both the new Brocade switch and the Procurve switch to my office and connected them with an LC/LC multi-mode patch cable and they linked up immediately. But when I put them back in place and got no link again, I figured something must be wrong with the line between the server room and the shop. The company that installed it sent out a tech to test, and he checked all of it and said that it was working perfectly between the shop and server room, and there was no problem with the lines. He also checked the LC/SC cables and cleaned all connectors.

The local tech company is now telling me that the problem is the multi-mode mini-gbics and the multi-mode LC/SC cables, and that replacing them will fix my problem. I can see that this might be an issue, but I don't understand how it could have worked for over 4 years before this suddenly became a problem. I also don't want to spend this much more money on a fix unless I have at least a strong feeling that the solution will work. What do you guys think?
 
Solution
I am going to hope you actually have multimode fiber since all your equipment is 850nm and you would have to run 1310 or higher if you were going to run on single mode fiber..

GBIC do in effect wear out over a number of years. Most time the designed loss is still more than enough to drive the fiber but if you have marginal cable it may not be enough. If the tech actually tested the fiber for you he can tell you exactly how many db of light he sees on each end of the fiber coming from your gbics. You would want to test the gbic directly and then at the far end of the fiber on each end. You can compare the db the gbic is suppose to put out on the spec sheet compared to what it really does.

Many times when you are near the limits...

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
If the tech who tested the MM fiber used an OTDR tester, he should have given you a test result slip. If the test says the fiber results match expected results for a good cable, then I would suspect one of the GBICs might have gone bad.

If the OTDR results say there is more attenuation or reflection on the cable than expected, then I would suspect the cable or patch connections along the way.
 

RickeyP21

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Oct 13, 2014
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The tech did not give me a print out. He simply told me verbally that the lines were all good. I will contact the company today and see if I can get the print out or not though. Thank you for the quick reply!
 
I am going to hope you actually have multimode fiber since all your equipment is 850nm and you would have to run 1310 or higher if you were going to run on single mode fiber..

GBIC do in effect wear out over a number of years. Most time the designed loss is still more than enough to drive the fiber but if you have marginal cable it may not be enough. If the tech actually tested the fiber for you he can tell you exactly how many db of light he sees on each end of the fiber coming from your gbics. You would want to test the gbic directly and then at the far end of the fiber on each end. You can compare the db the gbic is suppose to put out on the spec sheet compared to what it really does.

Many times when you are near the limits on fiber it only take a tiny amount of dirt on the ends to degrade the service. Many patch panels are not sealed and dirt can make its way in. Your tech should have special cleaning cloths but if you are very careful you can use low lint cloth and normal alcohol to clean the ends. Just be careful to not tough the glass ends you will put oil from your hands on the fiber which will collect dust.
 
Solution
Oct 13, 2014
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4,510
Hey how you going? My name is Cris I just signed up for this site 5 minutes ago to test how much I learnt, my goal is to answer or questions regardless. I am in a hurry at the moment, but I read ya thimgy, you talk to much about the cable, who cares how you get an outside connection. So far of my head

A. Network collisions? Your switches can have red led lights to indicate collisions, simply log into the switch, to get it's ip address, (Hold down windows key press R), (Type CMD press enter) (Type tracert 8.8.4.4) your will then see how your internet gets out to either Brisbane, Sydney or Perth root servers. Before they hit a main line probably starting with 172, all the ip address listed are nodes or devices in your company.

B. Staff are downloading torrents and youtube

C. Staff are transferring files between each other

D. Your network settings need to be tested, that's where I want to help tonight. BRB
 


I just have to laugh at you for actually posting this. When you do not understand the words in the post maybe you should go look them up before you look foolish.

He is not talking about a connection to the internet he is talking about internal connection between 2 location INSIDE his network. Like most companies that have building seperated by some distance he is using fiber optic cable to connect them. This has nothing at all to do with "cable" from a ISP. He knows he is has problems because the interface is going down.

Now just because I will go through your points.

A --- he is not getting collisions fiber optic connection only run full duplex but this shows you have no clue how the internet works. Why would you think 8.8.4.4 is in perth...maybe because you live in austrialia. You need to read what the term "anycast" means and you will find you can not really determine where these ip are.

B. why would you assume he is running bit torrent between his shop machines and his server room and how would he have a internet youtube server ?

C. He is using commercial switches that can easily tolerate the users transferring data between each other....even most consumer routers can tolerate this.

D. well daah. But it is still likely a issue with the hardware since you can not really set much on fiber port.

Maybe you should try a simpler topic as your first contribution. This one happens to be a question on a commercial installation
 
Quote removed by Moderator due to harsh language and verbal abuse.

I bet it is in both cities shows you are even a bigger fool that pretends he knows things he does not. Those are google name servers they are duplicated ip in multiple cities. There is no way to tell for sure what all the cities are. You don't even take my hint and look up the word anycast digging yourself a bigger hole.

You didn't even really read the post or any response and you even almost said that. " I am in a hurry at the moment, but I read ya thimgy"

He in no way said he could not log into his switches. Go back and read the post show me any reference to not being able to log in. All his concerns were with why he was getting failure on this optical connection after replacing the equipment and having a company come out and test the fiber.

You clearly did not even read the posts put here by me and invaliderror. We clearly discussed how you resolve issues on fiber optic cable. Have you even touched a OTDR in your life or did you even bother to look up what those letter mean.

The rest of your post is absolute drivel. Go back and play with your python if that is what you think you are a expert in and wait until you really know what you are talking about before you post on topic you have no background in.

If you want to be helpful I have no issues there are lots of posts on this forum that are extremely simple questions that you might know how to fix. You pick one of rare ones that is a question on a commercial installation that only a professional in the networking field will know the answer to. If you do not even understand the words in the post it should be a good indicator you do not know the answer.




 
Oct 13, 2014
19
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4,510


I spend my time writing source code. Give me something so I can send what I think pLz bill001g a address or something. Prove of ownership as well. Why were here? Can you tell me the law on networking in a quick summary not that I need your help. I am hoping you can't answer.
 

g-unit1111

Titan
Moderator


Yeah I'm curious about this as well. Torrents should not be used illegally for any purpose, and most company servers block use of them anyways unless you're downloading Linux distributions.
 
Mostly my frustration with you as well as few other on this forum is they don't actually read the posts. Your response was so far from the question you might as well have posted instruction on how to change the tire on your car. I just couldn't resist bashing you for it which I apologize for.

You say you spend your time writing code. That generally does not make you a authority on network issues. There are actual professions who work in the networking field that respond to these questions. This question is actually fairly different than most on this forum which is asking question about commercial grade equipment. Most questions here are very basic how do I make things work in my house that many people can answer.

I normally let my post and answers speak for themselves as to my expertise in this area. But I have a master degree in electrical engineering and I have CCIE in both routing/switching and security for more than 10yrs. Go look up what CCIE means.

You need to go back to the beginning and read the main post. If you think you have a actual suggestion as to why he is losing a optical connection between 2 switches that are internal to his buildings I am sure he would like to hear it.



 


I was being silly here. You would never run torrents internal to your company network. That was the point I was trying to make. The main post said he was losing the fiber optic link between his server farm and his office. It was proposed that torrent traffic was causing this optical fiber to fail. There was no mention anywhere in the original post that this was in anyway related to some form of internet connection. It clearly stated it was a internal lan connection.

We have now got this thread extremely derailed. Only the first couple of answers are even related since those deal with how to fix and troubleshoot a broken optical connection.
 

g-unit1111

Titan
Moderator


Yeah I agree, unless the OP comes back I'm thinking of closing the thread.
 

RickeyP21

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Oct 13, 2014
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4,510
First, I want to thank everyone for the suggestions. Bill001g and InvalidError were on the money with it being the GBIC that was bad. After speaking to the internet provider who checked the lines, I went with their suggestion and replaced the GBICs on both ends, since I wasn't sure which one was the actual problem or if it was both.

Since single mode fiber was ran between the buildings, even though it was only 800 ft or so, I got single mode GBICs and single mode patch cables as well. This has finally resolved our issue. The shop has now been back up and running since yesterday with no further issues.

Bill001g and InvalidError, thank you both very much for your expertise and answers. They really saved me a lot of headache and finally rooted out our problem. The local company I had come in originally looked at the GBICs and said that they were okay since they could see the light coming from the connection on each GBIC. Just to be sure they actually switched them out with a couple that they had in their office, but obviously the ones they used were either the wrong ones or they had a bad one as well.

Thanks again everyone for all the help!
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator

Merely "seeing the light" is not good enough. They have to actually measure it, preferably from both near-end and far-end to rule out coupling issues.