Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

"Water" vs. "Liquid" vs. "Air" cooling

Tags:
  • Overclocking
  • Water Cooling
  • Cooling
Last response: in Overclocking
Share
October 13, 2014 5:16:28 PM

I'm (and I think a lot of people) interested in cooling. What's better,

"water" which is a self-made (distilled) water cooling system being an example,
"liquid" which is Corsair H60 being an example, or
"air", which is the most usual cooling system, stock cooler being an example*?

Of course, water is a definite winner, but "how" better is it? What makes each special, how low a temp can be with each cooler? If possible, a few benchmarks would be really nice and helpful.

*I heard that some (I think it's just 1 CPU, but may be wrong) AMD CPUs are sold with liquid cooling in a box, by default.

More about : water liquid air cooling

October 13, 2014 5:23:32 PM

It goes in this order with high-end stuff :
1. Water
2. "Liquid"
3. Air

The reason why water is superior is because you usually have a custom loop that's interconnected to many radiators and a reservoir. The heat is spread equally among a bigger volume of water which results in lower temps. Closed looped liquid coolers have a limited amount of liquid to absorb the heat compared to water. Air speaks for itself.
m
0
l
Related resources
a b K Overclocking
October 13, 2014 5:23:38 PM

water and liquid are the same thing. you are comparing custom liquid cooling and closed loop liquid cooling.

air is cheapest and capable of cooling like a mid range closed loop liquid cooling solution, sometimes a bit better. problem is, it is typically louder for those results.

closed liquid cooling is decent but somewhat pricier than air cooling. usually has mediocre results considering the cost.

custom liquid cooling is whatever you make of it. it can be considerably better than either of the previous 2 solutions but it will cost you more.
m
0
l
a b K Overclocking
October 13, 2014 5:30:51 PM

Both, what you call water and liquid coolers, are the same. they both use liquid to wick away the heat from the CPU. The way you should have worded it is All In One (AIO) or closed loop liquid cooling and Custom Loop liquid cooling. The difference is the AIO is prebuilt and comes with a preset length of hose and only cools one component where as the Custom Loops can cool the whole system with one loop and the ability to use multiple and different size radiators.

So far the AIO's only barley keep up with a Noctua DH14 air cooler for performance. This is because you can not change the size of the radiators with the AIO's. The plus side to the AIO's verses the Noctua I mentioned is they do not put much stress on the motherboard's cooler mount. The Noctua is very heavy and can damage thin cheap boards.

Even Custom loops are only as good as the cool air that they pass through the radiators. The cooler the air the cooler any Cooler will keep the CPU.
m
0
l
a c 337 K Overclocking
October 13, 2014 5:33:28 PM

It is also important to note that it is impossible to cool lower than ambient room temperature with either air or any form of normal liquid cooling.
m
0
l
October 13, 2014 5:42:52 PM

So, basically, what I mean and what you all are saying is that it won't differ temperature-wise between a pretty expensive but extremely good water cooling and, let's say, Corsair H100 or any other expensive liquid cooling system. Right..?

Add: let's say, I want to OC a 4790K (devils canyon, 4GHz by default) to 6 GHz. Temperature-wise... Now, is it the same?
m
0
l
a c 337 K Overclocking
October 13, 2014 5:45:52 PM

No, that's not what we are saying.
m
0
l
October 13, 2014 6:02:10 PM

Listen, I divided the 2 not for no reason.

Sorry, I was raged that nobody would read what I write, and so screwed it up. I was saying that the two are not the same, they are different, and THAT is EXACTLY why I wrote separately about each. Most (if not all) replies still, however, were stating that the 2 are the same. Weren't they?
m
0
l
a b K Overclocking
October 13, 2014 6:16:04 PM

how do you not understand this "water cooling" and "liquid cooling"" literally mean the EXACT same thing

and we went on to tell you what it is you obviously mean, which is "closed loop cooling" and "custom loop cooling." those are the 2 that are different. if anybody here is not understanding others, it is you miha.
m
0
l
a c 337 K Overclocking
October 13, 2014 6:18:43 PM

In CONCEPT they are the same. It's kind of like saying a Mercedes and a Kia are both cars.

That's what I'm trying to get across.
m
0
l
October 13, 2014 6:22:46 PM

Quotes say nothing for you? Examples? I'm not interested to read if the words mean the same or not, I'm interested to read how they differ. Temperature-wise, noise-wise, other factors-wise. OK, what about this then: Custom loop cooling vs. closed loop cooling vs. air cooling. Good enough? If not, please tell me how I can better my question, because I'm here not to argue, but to get a good answer.
m
0
l
a c 337 K Overclocking
October 13, 2014 6:25:55 PM

Have you read through the links further up the thread? This should be able to answer just about everything you're asking.

Several people (including myself) took a lot of time to put that information together in order to quell these kinds of threads.

Quote:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2232179/water-cool...

Great set of links to get you started.
m
0
l
October 13, 2014 6:28:40 PM

Custom loop cooling (The one you do yourself which isn't pre-built) are the best overall except price. They do take alot of time to install but that's what it's about. AIOs (closed looped) are usually second in the high end of coolers. Air coolers are usually last but are also the cheapest (depends on the cooler). For noise, go for an AIO or Custom loop (although some air coolers (Noctua's) is pretty darn good and quiet). For best temps, custom loops are usually the best.
m
0
l
a b K Overclocking
October 13, 2014 6:30:57 PM

A custom liquid cooler has the potential, if done right, to return a lower max temp than a regular store bought all in one liquid cooler.

The better air coolers have the potential to equal the regular store bought liquid coolers. And generally for less cost and complexity.
m
0
l
October 13, 2014 6:39:04 PM

All right... moderators here? Can you delete this thread? Because it leads to nowhere. I won't be able to get an answer on my question here anyways, so it's a waste of time. CLC vs. CLC. Differs a lot.
m
0
l
a b K Overclocking
October 13, 2014 6:41:47 PM

Mainly, we're just trying to get to the meat of what your question is.
m
0
l
a c 337 K Overclocking
October 13, 2014 6:43:05 PM

In attempt to help, I'd like to reiterate that I've posted a link that has a lot of information to answer your questions.

These links have a substantial amount of information that can help answer your questions. Please read through those as they will definitely be able to help you get a grasp of the concepts being debated in this thread.

I've personally had this exact same discussion/debate with countless people in threads, hence the reason why the stickies and other informational threads exist...to help direct forum users to sources of content to help answer questions without the same concepts being hashed out over and over and over.
m
0
l
October 14, 2014 3:10:17 AM

After testing all three the only reason I would recommend a custom loop over the next best Hi100 is aesthetics and bragging rights. In a NORMAL system you can create some very pretty rigs with custom loops, and show your friends your pretty pc?!$% I highly doubt my friends would give a toss what my PC looks like to be honest and as I move in those circles my outlook has always been the same... In a lot of situations forced air will produce the results you needs without overspending or risking components. I prefer budget friendly and practicality over aesthetics and bragging rights,build to what you need, but if your idea of a night out is sitting over a Halo multi-player fiddling with your toggles whilst arguing my PC looks nicer than yours, then maybe a custom loop is for you?



I have always had my obvious concerns when pumping conductive fluids around my rig. Especially with the custom loops
m
0
l
a b K Overclocking
October 14, 2014 4:27:46 AM

Ricardo Waitos said:
After testing all three the only reason I would recommend a custom loop over the next best Hi100 is aesthetics and bragging rights. In a normal system.You can create some very pretty rigs with custom loops, and show your friends your pretty pc?!$% I highly doubt my friends would give a toss what my PC looks like to be honest and as I move in those circles my outlook has always been the same... In a lot of situations forced air will produced the results you needs without overspending or risking components. I prefer budget friendly and practicality over aesthetics and bragging rights,buid to what you need, but if your idea of a night out is sitting over a Halo multi-player fiddling with your toggles whilst arguing my PC looks nicer than yours, then maybe a custom loop is for you?



I have always had my obvious concerns when pumping conductive fluids around my rig. Especially with the custom loops


You mustn't forget that Custom loops can be made to cool the CPU, GPU, Ram, VRM's and North Bridge (AMD) all in one loop with the proper pumps and radiators. This is the main reason to do a Custom loop. They can cool more than one component at a time if configured properly. The AIO's (closed loop coolers) can only cool one piece, either the CPU or GPU if the brackets fit your particular GPU.
m
0
l
a c 244 K Overclocking
October 14, 2014 4:28:02 AM

miha2 said:
I'm (and I think a lot of people) interested in cooling. What's better,

"water" which is a self-made (distilled) water cooling system being an example,
"liquid" which is Corsair H60 being an example, or
"air", which is the most usual cooling system, stock cooler being an example*?

Of course, water is a definite winner, but "how" better is it? What makes each special, how low a temp can be with each cooler? If possible, a few benchmarks would be really nice and helpful.

*I heard that some (I think it's just 1 CPU, but may be wrong) AMD CPUs are sold with liquid cooling in a box, by default.


Yes there's a lot of people interested in cooling, But for what reasons?

Your opening post really made no direct need to know past stock cooling because unless you're overclocking, which by the way you did not mention!, leaves all those attempting to answer you with almost no intent behind your question, other than to surmise an answer!

[utl]http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2196038/air-coolin...[/url]

miha2 said:
So, basically, what I mean and what you all are saying is that it won't differ temperature-wise between a pretty expensive but extremely good water cooling and, let's say, Corsair H100 or any other expensive liquid cooling system. Right..?

Add: let's say, I want to OC a 4790K (devils canyon, 4GHz by default) to 6 GHz. Temperature-wise... Now, is it the same?


Now you finally ask a question to clarify why and what you need to know and FYI, you are not going to reach a 6GHZ overclock with your 4790K with literally any of the above that you've questioned regarding water, liquid, or air, cooling.

It will take sub-ambient or sub-zero cooling to reach a stable 6GHZ overclock with a 4790K.

http://lab501.net/intel-core-i7-4790k-intel-pentium-g3258-overclocking-study/

m
0
l
October 14, 2014 5:13:14 AM

bgunner said:
Ricardo Waitos said:
After testing all three the only reason I would recommend a custom loop over the next best Hi100 is aesthetics and bragging rights. In a normal system.You can create some very pretty rigs with custom loops, and show your friends your pretty pc?!$% I highly doubt my friends would give a toss what my PC looks like to be honest and as I move in those circles my outlook has always been the same... In a lot of situations forced air will produced the results you needs without overspending or risking components. I prefer budget friendly and practicality over aesthetics and bragging rights,buid to what you need, but if your idea of a night out is sitting over a Halo multi-player fiddling with your toggles whilst arguing my PC looks nicer than yours, then maybe a custom loop is for you?



I have always had my obvious concerns when pumping conductive fluids around my rig. Especially with the custom loops


You mustn't forget that Custom loops can be made to cool the CPU, GPU, Ram, VRM's and North Bridge (AMD) all in one loop with the proper pumps and radiators. This is the main reason to do a Custom loop. They can cool more than one component at a time if configured properly. The AIO's (closed loop coolers) can only cool one piece, either the CPU or GPU if the brackets fit your particular GPU.



Under normal parameters, gaming, editing, mild to medium overclocking ect a custom loop in my eyes is simply an unnecessary hit on your pocket. There is the ability to cool everything with looping system, however I honestly don't think the majority will require a custom loop. I think this is for the serious enthusiast, people who already have the highest end equipment and want hardcore overclocking. If you have a mid range system it would be cheaper to upgrade components than add a custom loop to maximize overclocking potential.

You are looking at a starting budget of $300 to get you up and running, a full loop can go a fair way over $1000 upon optimization.
m
0
l
a c 244 K Overclocking
October 14, 2014 5:35:59 AM

Ricardo Waitos said:
a full loop can go a fair way over $1000 upon optimization.


How do you arrive at those numbers?

Are you even water cooling your setup?



m
0
l
October 14, 2014 5:49:54 AM

4Ryan6 said:
Ricardo Waitos said:
a full loop can go a fair way over $1000 upon optimization.


How do you arrive at those numbers?

Are you even water cooling your setup?






You take a snippet of my response and respond on that..... Just for those of you who haven't seen above, I said a loop starts at around $300 and CAN go over $1000.... I do love people like you ;) .

I have been involved in every type of cooling system I can think of at one point or another, even botched together loops before the coming of liquid cooling. I am not the type of person to chat bubbles if I don't know anything about the subject in hand... No I am not running water loop at the moment no, not even a closed liquid loop. I am running forced air at the moment because it is all my system requires to run at good temperatures. I am not one for overkill.
m
0
l
a c 244 K Overclocking
October 14, 2014 5:56:45 AM

Ricardo Waitos said:
4Ryan6 said:
Ricardo Waitos said:
a full loop can go a fair way over $1000 upon optimization.


How do you arrive at those numbers?

Are you even water cooling your setup?






You take a snippet of my response and respond on that..... Just for those of you who haven't seen above, I said a loop starts at around $300 and CAN go over $1000.... I do love people like you ;) .

I have been involved in every type of cooling system I can think of at one point or another, even botched together loops before the coming of liquid cooling. I am not the type of person to chat bubbles if I don't know anything about the subject in hand... No I am not running water loop at the moment no, not even a closed liquid loop. I am running forced air at the moment because it is all my system requires to run at good temperatures. I am not one for overkill.


That's what I thought! :) 

m
0
l
a c 337 K Overclocking
October 14, 2014 7:22:55 AM

I watercool because I can and because I like to...not because I need to nor because I overclock.

There isn't a necessity either way, so I'd like to also make that clear. You can do it just because you want to....and I do.
m
0
l
a c 244 K Overclocking
October 14, 2014 7:39:25 AM

rubix_1011 said:
I watercool because I can and because I like to...not because I need to nor because I overclock.

There isn't a necessity either way, so I'd like to also make that clear. You can do it just because you want to....and I do.


I've always know that, if that was directed at me?

m
0
l
a c 337 K Overclocking
October 14, 2014 7:54:44 AM

Not at all. There has just been a lot of discussion in this specific thread where folks are making a case for/against the cooling solution and it always seems that one is dependent upon the other. I just wanted to toss it out there that you can do it 'just because you want to'.

Absolutely not directed at you; mainly to add it as a point of discussion as it often seems to be glossed over. My intent was to ensure that those engaged in the thread also took it into consideration. Honestly, you are the last guy here that I would feel that I have to explain that to. :) 
m
0
l
a c 244 K Overclocking
October 14, 2014 10:12:38 AM

rubix_1011 said:
Not at all. There has just been a lot of discussion in this specific thread where folks are making a case for/against the cooling solution and it always seems that one is dependent upon the other. I just wanted to toss it out there that you can do it 'just because you want to'.

Absolutely not directed at you; mainly to add it as a point of discussion as it often seems to be glossed over. My intent was to ensure that those engaged in the thread also took it into consideration. Honestly, you are the last guy here that I would feel that I have to explain that to. :) 


You had already linked the guy to the information he needed, but he seemed that just wasn't enough information, because he would have to actually read it to get anything from it, and that's typical. I only got involved after seeing what his overclocking goal was for his 4790K, 6ghz yeah Right! I couldn't get 6ghz out of it with my cooling!

I've always known why you water cool you like the setup involved in it, you like the looks and the improved cooling, and you are one of the most knowledgeable regarding water cooling here!

You've actually changed my view of water cooling, because there are more reasons to do it besides just overclocking! :) 

On another note;

I think the water cooling sticky consolidation was a bad idea rubix, it makes it harder for them to get to the information, the majority ignore the stickies anyway even though they're pretty much all current, consolidating them has made it even worse, IMO.

m
0
l
a c 337 K Overclocking
October 14, 2014 10:32:00 AM

It personally wasn't my idea- I am not a huge fan of it either. I think there was a discussion one day when I wasn't available and there was a notable change in how the stickies were requested to be presented.

I'm currently pushing to get cooling separated out into sections like they used to be, so I'll definitely hang it up in there when that is updated. Not sure when that is going to be, but noticing that saint19 updated the meta-sticky, maybe he'll be OK if I remove it from there. I think people are missing some of these links altogether, but with how the forum is laid out now with tagging vs. actual structured 'walls', it isn't as much as a defined space as it once was.
m
0
l
October 14, 2014 11:00:11 AM

I have seen dual tower Heat sink Air cooler's beat AiO and are cheaper.

In regards to the Liquid Cooling v Water Cooling.

I think he is talking about the AiO Liquid cooling not using "water", whilst Water Cooling uses pure distilled water. But yes in the end its the same story that they use liquid to dissipate the heat.

AiO apparently uses Ethylene Glycol like liquid. evaporate rating not as quick as water but comapred to water, Water transfer's heat much better than Ethylene Glycol which is why people say Custom Water Loop is better than an AiO.

Have a read : http://www.legitreviews.com/120mm-water-cooler-round-up...

Its also interesting how much less of liquid they use on the 120mm. Also some liquid even have nano particles (I presume metal) to increase the amount of heat the liquid can carry). And dye them blue so they look nice LeL :D 
m
0
l
a c 337 K Overclocking
October 14, 2014 11:06:50 AM

Custom watercooling loops can be just about any size and volume you want. Water volume in the loop doesn't determine how well it cools, it simply allows you more time for warm ups and cool downs as well as any temp spikes as the water absorbs much more heat energy. Regardless, this means nothing if you don't have ample heat exchangers (radiators) in place to exhaust this energy into the ambient air. Heat reacts to ambient room temps the same way that the Sun heating the Earth causes wind and areas of higher and lower pressure. The greater the difference between these energies, the more efficient and quickly the energy is moved. Fans allow this by acting as an already present 'wind' to force heat exchange and dissipation from the radiator fins into the surrounding air.
m
0
l
!