Need Advice for Initial Gaming PC Build - $550-650
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mightyredpanda
October 15, 2014 8:50:22 AM
Hey there, I'm looking to build my first gaming rig and could use some help. I'm trying to stay in-budget, and I already have peripherals and a monitor. I want this to be able to handle most current top titles with reasonable results. Also I'd like it to be upgradable, since I know I won't be getting the "best" parts initially, and hopefully I can maximize the bang for the bucks.
Here's the parts list I've put together, any insight/advice is welcomed: http://pcpartpicker.com/user/mightyredpanda/saved/7D4Pxr
A few questions that I have:
- Is it worth shifting up to i5? If so, where would I need to pull back to keep the budget reasonable?
- I'm a mobo newbie, so is the one listed adequate? If not, what would work well for this build?
- Is a cooler necessary for this build? I know I can add one later.
I appreciate your insight and advice, thanks in advance!
Here's the parts list I've put together, any insight/advice is welcomed: http://pcpartpicker.com/user/mightyredpanda/saved/7D4Pxr
A few questions that I have:
- Is it worth shifting up to i5? If so, where would I need to pull back to keep the budget reasonable?
- I'm a mobo newbie, so is the one listed adequate? If not, what would work well for this build?
- Is a cooler necessary for this build? I know I can add one later.
I appreciate your insight and advice, thanks in advance!
More about : advice initial gaming build 550 650
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Iankiller99
October 15, 2014 8:59:11 AM
Could use a bit more information
1. Budget & Location
You may have listed a heap of parts that all add up to your preferred budget but it is easier if you just list the total amount you'd like to spend and the currency as well as if you'd consider going above that budget for more performance. We need the location as well because $US are different to $AUD and $CAD ect.
2. Aim
What is the system going to be used for? Web browsing, 3D work? Different systems need different levels of performance - a computer based for web browsing and office use won't handle heavy graphic design and video editing and a proper video editing system isn't good for gaming. If your aim is for gaming, please list what sort of gaming. In the same way that different usage types need different systems, you'll need a lot more power to run Far Cry 3 or Crysis 2 than you would Minecraft.
1. Budget & Location
You may have listed a heap of parts that all add up to your preferred budget but it is easier if you just list the total amount you'd like to spend and the currency as well as if you'd consider going above that budget for more performance. We need the location as well because $US are different to $AUD and $CAD ect.
2. Aim
What is the system going to be used for? Web browsing, 3D work? Different systems need different levels of performance - a computer based for web browsing and office use won't handle heavy graphic design and video editing and a proper video editing system isn't good for gaming. If your aim is for gaming, please list what sort of gaming. In the same way that different usage types need different systems, you'll need a lot more power to run Far Cry 3 or Crysis 2 than you would Minecraft.
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mightyredpanda
October 15, 2014 9:03:37 AM
Iankiller99 said:
Could use a bit more information1. Budget & Location
You may have listed a heap of parts that all add up to your preferred budget but it is easier if you just list the total amount you'd like to spend and the currency as well as if you'd consider going above that budget for more performance. We need the location as well because $US are different to $AUD and $CAD ect.
2. Aim
What is the system going to be used for? Web browsing, 3D work? Different systems need different levels of performance - a computer based for web browsing and office use won't handle heavy graphic design and video editing and a proper video editing system isn't good for gaming. If your aim is for gaming, please list what sort of gaming. In the same way that different usage types need different systems, you'll need a lot more power to run Far Cry 3 or Crysis 2 than you would Minecraft.
Thanks for the reply, here's some more info:
1)I'm in the US with a budget of $550-650 (USD)
2)This is a gaming PC build for games like Battlefield 4, Arma, etc. (hopefully games like Star Citizen/No Man's Sky in the future)
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Iankiller99
October 15, 2014 9:07:51 AM
Thanks for the reply, here's some more info:
1)I'm in the US with a budget of $550-650 (USD)
2)This is a gaming PC build for games like Battlefield 4, Arma, etc. (hopefully games like Star Citizen/No Man's Sky in the future) said:
Thanks for the reply, here's some more info:
1)I'm in the US with a budget of $550-650 (USD)
2)This is a gaming PC build for games like Battlefield 4, Arma, etc. (hopefully games like Star Citizen/No Man's Sky in the future)
What quality/resolution do you want to play those games at?
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mightyredpanda
October 15, 2014 9:23:35 AM
Iankiller99 said:
Thanks for the reply, here's some more info:
1)I'm in the US with a budget of $550-650 (USD)
2)This is a gaming PC build for games like Battlefield 4, Arma, etc. (hopefully games like Star Citizen/No Man's Sky in the future)[/msgquoted said:
What quality/resolution do you want to play those games at?
]
Thanks for the reply, here's some more info:
1)I'm in the US with a budget of $550-650 (USD)
2)This is a gaming PC build for games like Battlefield 4, Arma, etc. (hopefully games like Star Citizen/No Man's Sky in the future)
What quality/resolution do you want to play those games at?
I want to play at 1080p. Thanks.
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shafin364
October 15, 2014 9:51:24 AM
Do you mind buying an AMD cpu ? ( Since your budget is a little low ? )
If you dont then you can consider this build, this will give you almost 30 % - 50 % + more performance than the build you have chosen :
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Vw3dJx
If you dont then you can consider this build, this will give you almost 30 % - 50 % + more performance than the build you have chosen :
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Vw3dJx
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Iankiller99
October 15, 2014 9:58:35 AM
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/WL7Zqs
Processor is cheap and great for gaming, also good overclocking headroom for more performance
760 from msi has a good cooler on it, great for 1080p gaming 60fps, comes with the usual nvidia technologies, gamestream,physx,gsync,3d vision, gpuboost 2.0, nvidia surround, check out these features here http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt...
everything else is pretty much what you had in your original build.
can always tweak this.
Processor is cheap and great for gaming, also good overclocking headroom for more performance
760 from msi has a good cooler on it, great for 1080p gaming 60fps, comes with the usual nvidia technologies, gamestream,physx,gsync,3d vision, gpuboost 2.0, nvidia surround, check out these features here http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt...
everything else is pretty much what you had in your original build.
can always tweak this.
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mightyredpanda
October 15, 2014 10:31:45 AM
Thanks both for the builds!
I don't mind AMD for cpu, but I've read that Intel can be better overall for upgrading as well. No opinions one way or the other for nvidia or amd gpus.
Shafin, there's no case listed on yours, and Iankiller there's no psu listed on yours. Could I just combine the two and use an NZXT Source 210 Elite and an XFX 550W? Both of those seem like good choices.
Iankiller, I like the build but the price point is a bit high. Would a lower i5, like a 4440, work with that build?
I don't mind AMD for cpu, but I've read that Intel can be better overall for upgrading as well. No opinions one way or the other for nvidia or amd gpus.
Shafin, there's no case listed on yours, and Iankiller there's no psu listed on yours. Could I just combine the two and use an NZXT Source 210 Elite and an XFX 550W? Both of those seem like good choices.
Iankiller, I like the build but the price point is a bit high. Would a lower i5, like a 4440, work with that build?
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shafin364
October 15, 2014 10:42:42 AM
mightyredpanda said:
Thanks both for the builds! I don't mind AMD for cpu, but I've read that Intel can be better overall for upgrading as well. No opinions one way or the other for nvidia or amd gpus.
Shafin, there's no case listed on yours, and Iankiller there's no psu listed on yours. Could I just combine the two and use an NZXT Source 210 Elite and an XFX 550W? Both of those seem like good choices.
Iankiller, I like the build but the price point is a bit high. Would a lower i5, like a 4440, work with that build?
Yes you can use NZXT source Elite and an XFX 550W on my build.
If you want a gaming PC within $650 and want Core i5, its really difficult to arrange such config since Core i5 prices start from $ 160 - $170 minimum and you also have to consider on getting a better GPU than the one you have chosen.
So, sorry to say,unless you add a more $100 - $150 to your budget, you cant arrange a good combination of core i5 4th gen and a good CPU for your demanded 1080p gaming
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mightyredpanda
October 15, 2014 11:07:01 AM
shafin364 said:
mightyredpanda said:
Thanks both for the builds! I don't mind AMD for cpu, but I've read that Intel can be better overall for upgrading as well. No opinions one way or the other for nvidia or amd gpus.
Shafin, there's no case listed on yours, and Iankiller there's no psu listed on yours. Could I just combine the two and use an NZXT Source 210 Elite and an XFX 550W? Both of those seem like good choices.
Iankiller, I like the build but the price point is a bit high. Would a lower i5, like a 4440, work with that build?
Yes you can use NZXT source Elite and an XFX 550W on my build.
If you want a gaming PC within $650 and want Core i5, its really difficult to arrange such config since Core i5 prices start from $ 160 - $170 minimum and you also have to consider on getting a better GPU than the one you have chosen.
So, sorry to say,unless you add a more $100 - $150 to your budget, you cant arrange a good combination of core i5 4th gen and a good CPU for your demanded 1080p gaming
Shafin, i5 is not a requirement for me. One of my first questions was whether or not it was worth it in this price range to go up to i5 or look at i3. Like I said, I'm pretty flexible. Just wanting to maximize my $'s with enough value to play games well!
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HomerThompson
October 15, 2014 11:17:15 AM
No reason to go R7 265 when you go R9 270x for the same price.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/gWJRqs
Main highlights:
CPU: i5 4590
GPU: R9 270x
Cost: $636
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/gWJRqs
Main highlights:
CPU: i5 4590
GPU: R9 270x
Cost: $636
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HomerThompson
October 15, 2014 11:22:09 AM
Iankiller99
October 15, 2014 12:11:44 PM
mightyredpanda said:
Thanks both for the builds! I don't mind AMD for cpu, but I've read that Intel can be better overall for upgrading as well. No opinions one way or the other for nvidia or amd gpus.
Shafin, there's no case listed on yours, and Iankiller there's no psu listed on yours. Could I just combine the two and use an NZXT Source 210 Elite and an XFX 550W? Both of those seem like good choices.
Iankiller, I like the build but the price point is a bit high. Would a lower i5, like a 4440, work with that build?
Honestly The CPU I have on there is about 60$ but I can refer you to a video showing the performance if all you are doing is gaming and basic videos/web browsing on it. I'd have to budget a cheaper gpu to add on a lower i5. Also my build does have a PSU in it. its a Corsair CX500 psu with 500watts of power. And honestly getting good 1080p performance on the latest games on a budget up to $650 is a bit hard, most times you see builds for this kind of gaming going the mini itx route with not much room for upgrades albeit it can be done. $700-$800 would maybe be ideal, if you wanted a good gpu and cpu but I personally understand not having a lot of funds. I'll see what I can do though.
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Iankiller99
October 15, 2014 12:13:34 PM
HomerThompson said:
The original one I posted using your case wouldn't fit the R9 270x on sale, but changing the case to a Rosewill Challenger (which comes with lots of fans preinstalled) makes it work. I have since edited the post above to reflect the change.Actually it will fit the R9 270x, he'd just have to remove a few hard drive bays from the right side, easy fix, and since he only has one drive it wont cause any problems.
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HomerThompson
October 15, 2014 12:28:51 PM
Iankiller99 said:
mightyredpanda said:
Thanks both for the builds! I don't mind AMD for cpu, but I've read that Intel can be better overall for upgrading as well. No opinions one way or the other for nvidia or amd gpus.
Shafin, there's no case listed on yours, and Iankiller there's no psu listed on yours. Could I just combine the two and use an NZXT Source 210 Elite and an XFX 550W? Both of those seem like good choices.
Iankiller, I like the build but the price point is a bit high. Would a lower i5, like a 4440, work with that build?
Honestly The CPU I have on there is about 60$ but I can refer you to a video showing the performance if all you are doing is gaming and basic videos/web browsing on it. I'd have to budget a cheaper gpu to add on a lower i5. Also my build does have a PSU in it. its a Corsair CX500 psu with 500watts of power. And honestly getting good 1080p performance on the latest games on a budget up to $650 is a bit hard, most times you see builds for this kind of gaming going the mini itx route with not much room for upgrades albeit it can be done. $700-$800 would maybe be ideal, if you wanted a good gpu and cpu but I personally understand not having a lot of funds. I'll see what I can do though.
An overclocked G3258 looks great if you're considering average framerates, but multithreaded games like Crysis 3 and Battlefield 4 have some stutter. In this video you can see pretty badly oscillating frame times for BF4 and Crysis 3, though Bioshock Infinite and Tomb Raider perform spectacularly on the dual core at 4.5 GHz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6LUufXCPDM
I personally have a G3258 that I got up to 4.3 GHz stable on low voltage so I have tried to read up everything I could on them to decide if I should use my budget to go i5 + midlevel GPU or stick with G3258 and buy a high level GPU like a GTX 970. Based on these results I'm pretty sure I'd have to lock to 30 FPS with adaptive VSync on BF4 and Crysis 3 if I stick with the G3258 to get smooth gameplay (much more important to me than framerates near 60 FPS, though of course I'd love both).
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HomerThompson
October 15, 2014 12:34:53 PM
Iankiller99 said:
HomerThompson said:
The original one I posted using your case wouldn't fit the R9 270x on sale, but changing the case to a Rosewill Challenger (which comes with lots of fans preinstalled) makes it work. I have since edited the post above to reflect the change.Actually it will fit the R9 270x, he'd just have to remove a few hard drive bays from the right side, easy fix, and since he only has one drive it wont cause any problems.
Sounds good.
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HomerThompson
October 15, 2014 12:46:24 PM
Hmmm, you could go i5 + R9 280, though I'm not sure if that 550W PSU would be enough.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/6tHrwP
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/6tHrwP
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Iankiller99
October 15, 2014 12:48:39 PM
I'm no AMD expert and I dont claim to be, but this build is a bit lower budget but still gives you the graphics performance and gives you a better processor. Also better motherboard with USB3 headers for your front panel ports on the NZXT 210 Case, and faster memory as the better motherboard supports it.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/dB7Zqs
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/dB7Zqs
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mightyredpanda
October 15, 2014 1:08:16 PM
This is very enlightening for me, was unaware of all the nuances to consider. So thanks for the speedy and insightful replies!
Ok because I'm totally green and not totally following everything, I'm going to do a quick recap (y'all correct me/fill in the details):
- For somewhere around $600-650 I can get a decent build that plays graphically intensive games at moderate to high settings
- The limiting factors price-wise are the cpu and gpu
- If I don't want to go any higher than $650 for the time being, all things being (flexibly) equal otherwise, a good cpu & gpu would be ___________ and _________.
This seems to be the difference between Homer's (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/gWJRqs) and Ian's (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/dB7Zqs) builds.
So for somebody who doesn't just want a one-time build, but plans to periodically upgrade as my budget keeps up, what might work best? Sorry for my ignorance. Y'all have been super helpful thus far. Thoughts on the two builds mentioned?
Ok because I'm totally green and not totally following everything, I'm going to do a quick recap (y'all correct me/fill in the details):
- For somewhere around $600-650 I can get a decent build that plays graphically intensive games at moderate to high settings
- The limiting factors price-wise are the cpu and gpu
- If I don't want to go any higher than $650 for the time being, all things being (flexibly) equal otherwise, a good cpu & gpu would be ___________ and _________.
This seems to be the difference between Homer's (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/gWJRqs) and Ian's (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/dB7Zqs) builds.
So for somebody who doesn't just want a one-time build, but plans to periodically upgrade as my budget keeps up, what might work best? Sorry for my ignorance. Y'all have been super helpful thus far. Thoughts on the two builds mentioned?
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HomerThompson
October 15, 2014 1:26:25 PM
mightyredpanda said:
This is very enlightening for me, was unaware of all the nuances to consider. So thanks for the speedy and insightful replies! Ok because I'm totally green and not totally following everything, I'm going to do a quick recap (y'all correct me/fill in the details):
- For somewhere around $600-650 I can get a decent build that plays graphically intensive games at moderate to high settings
- The limiting factors price-wise are the cpu and gpu
- If I don't want to go any higher than $650 for the time being, all things being (flexibly) equal otherwise, a good cpu & gpu would be ___________ and _________.
This seems to be the difference between Homer's (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/gWJRqs) and Ian's (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/dB7Zqs) builds.
So for somebody who doesn't just want a one-time build, but plans to periodically upgrade as my budget keeps up, what might work best? Sorry for my ignorance. Y'all have been super helpful thus far. Thoughts on the two builds mentioned?
This review claims the R9 280 Twin Frozer 3GB I linked to needs 500W, which would make it a pretty serious upgrade over the R9 270x. You should contact MSI directly and ask them if a Bronze rated 550W PSU will be sufficient, as it's only $6 more than using the R9 270x in that last build I posted.
http://us.msi.com/product/vga/R9_280_GAMING_3G.html#her...
I think the R9 280 is supposed to compete pretty closely with the GTX 760. Last month Tom's Hardware called it the best sub $250 graphics card on the market:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-car...
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HomerThompson
October 15, 2014 1:31:23 PM
Based on reviews I have seen you'll probably be playing most games on Ultra pretty smooth with an i5 + R9 280. The BF4 benchmark looks particularly impressive with the really low frame time variance. This is a different R9 280 from the Twin Frozr on sale for the crazy price though.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sapphire-radeon-dua...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sapphire-radeon-dua...
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HomerThompson
October 15, 2014 1:34:11 PM
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HomerThompson
October 15, 2014 1:41:32 PM
The one change I might consider, but would take you over budget a little, is going with a Seasonic power supply. I don't know those XFX's well, but Seasonic PSU's are spectacular. I bought my first Seasonic (sold as an Antec, but Seasonic was the OEM) in 2001 and it was still going strong in 2008 when I bought a higher wattage Seasonic that I'm still using today. I have pretty much only turned the computer off when going on vacation also in these last 13 years.
Something like this maybe for $25 more than that XFX:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
But maybe do some research and see how good XFX power supplies are at this link:
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page541.htm
Something like this maybe for $25 more than that XFX:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
But maybe do some research and see how good XFX power supplies are at this link:
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page541.htm
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HomerThompson
October 15, 2014 1:49:24 PM
mightyredpanda
October 15, 2014 1:56:04 PM
Thanks a lot Homer, I like the R9 280 for the gpu. Couple of questions: 1) is that i5 the lowest I can go pricewise and not bottleneck the gpu? I'm assuming it is bc you put it there, but I figured I'd ask; 2) I know I don't want to skimp on mobo or psu, made the swap to seasonic in my build. How about the mobo? Does that one work or is that somewhere we could cut back for savings?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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mightyredpanda
October 15, 2014 1:56:33 PM
HomerThompson
October 15, 2014 2:02:14 PM
I wouldn't downgrad i5 to i3 considering you're dropping from 4 physical cores to 2 and the HT in the i3 to give it 4 logical cores won't make up for it. I'd stick with the XFX PSU, but I'd first give MSI a call and just verify that your PSU will be enough for that R280 using an 84W i5 as your CPU. It's rated for 528 W and 44 amperes on the 12V rail, bronze efficiency, and Seasonic OEM, so it should be ok IF the 500W requirement for the R9 280 Twin Frozr I read in that review is true. Especially if you're not running a bunch of mechanical hard drives.
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mightyredpanda
October 15, 2014 2:08:25 PM
mightyredpanda
October 15, 2014 2:20:29 PM
HomerThompson said:
I'd stick with the XFX PSU, but I'd first give MSI a call and just verify that your PSU will be enough for that R280 using an 84W i5 as your CPU. It's rated for 528 W and 44 amperes on the 12V rail, bronze efficiency, and Seasonic OEM, so it should be ok IF the 500W requirement for the R9 280 Twin Frozr I read in that review is true. Especially if you're not running a bunch of mechanical hard drives.I went on MSI's site and found their power calculator. Plugged in the parts we've got listed (as well as I could) and got 400 watts as the minimum required. They said that's the max from every component at peak usage and would be reached under normal circumstances. Thoughts? I can still call if you think that would be wiser. Thanks.
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HomerThompson
October 15, 2014 5:01:56 PM
mightyredpanda said:
HomerThompson said:
I wouldn't downgrade i5 to i3 considering you're dropping from 4 physical cores to 2 and the HT in the i3 to give it 4 logical cores won't make up for it. Yeah at this point I think i3 is not gonna happen. What about down to like a i5 4440?
For a price difference of $15 I'd stick with the i5 4590 and it's extra 200 MHz / 400 MHz turbo. But tomorrow when that promotion is over at newegg the price difference would be $25 and not $15.
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shafin364
October 15, 2014 11:44:36 PM
mightyredpanda said:
Thanks a lot Homer, I like the R9 280 for the gpu. Couple of questions: 1) is that i5 the lowest I can go pricewise and not bottleneck the gpu? I'm assuming it is bc you put it there, but I figured I'd ask; 2) I know I don't want to skimp on mobo or psu, made the swap to seasonic in my build. How about the mobo? Does that one work or is that somewhere we could cut back for savings?Thanks!
Go for this build :
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/CkWjqs
I personally don't prefer Biostar Motherboards. I think you should go for an ASUS or GByte. For the MoBo I have chosen, you can add another GPU later for Crossfire when UPGRADING to obtain the output of two Graphics Cards. But previously, on the Biostar MoBo, you could not have added another GPU for crossfire.
It will allow quite good 1080p gaming and you also have a 750W PSU here, so no need to worry about that
For, GPU, MSI R9 280 3GB 3G is the best choice in terms of price. The best choice for Cpu is core i5 4590
THE TOTAL COST IS $657
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Best solution
Iankiller99
October 16, 2014 8:04:05 AM
shafin364 said:
mightyredpanda said:
Thanks a lot Homer, I like the R9 280 for the gpu. Couple of questions: 1) is that i5 the lowest I can go pricewise and not bottleneck the gpu? I'm assuming it is bc you put it there, but I figured I'd ask; 2) I know I don't want to skimp on mobo or psu, made the swap to seasonic in my build. How about the mobo? Does that one work or is that somewhere we could cut back for savings?Thanks!
Go for this build :
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/CkWjqs
I personally don't prefer Biostar Motherboards. I think you should go for an ASUS or GByte. For the MoBo I have chosen, you can add another GPU later for Crossfire when UPGRADING to obtain the output of two Graphics Cards. But previously, on the Biostar MoBo, you could not have added another GPU for crossfire.
It will allow quite good 1080p gaming and you also have a 750W PSU here, so no need to worry about that
For, GPU, MSI R9 280 3GB 3G is the best choice in terms of price. The best choice for Cpu is core i5 4590
THE TOTAL COST IS $657
One, the total cost of this build is actually around 750, promo codes only last so long and mail in rebates dont count for the total price he has to pay. Also just saying If you look at the actual TDP of the 280 its around 250 and the processor was less, a 500w should be fine for now and cheap enough that you can upgrade to a bigger one later if needed. All the squabble over seasonic or xfx was stupid, XFX is a perfectly fine high rated company in the power supply buisness you really shouldnt have worried one bit about them. http://pcpartpicker.com/p/dB7Zqs My build still has better performance than all of your builds besides the one that has an fx 8320 or whatever, but you guys NEED to realise he will only have about $650 at max you CANT count the prices after mail in rebates and promo codes, I dont think he's ready to purchase this yet. Again about the cpu in my build being more powerful stock clocked than the 4590 its also overclockable, check this comparison here, the green is the Amd processor http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/157/AMD_Athlon_X4_760K... .
Seriously guys stop worrying him over trivial things like he needs a seasonic because they're amazing, so are a lot of other companies. I put together a very power efficient build with a better processor and a gpu with a good clock speed and better memory than the 280x, that comes with more useful features for gaming than the 280x ( I also added a nicer motherboard with higher clocked ram and an air cooler to cool the cpu more efficiently and allow for overclocking) . Also with the 760 vs the 280x even with them both having reference coolers the 760 will stay cooler under load than the amd card, and in the source 210 isnt amazing airflow wise if I remember correctly. Please read and consider your options carefully. I know the better processor in the one build looks amazing if you look at the final price, but the cost of that processor puts you at a 750-700 dollar price off the bat. And trust me Mail in rebates are a bitch. Just saying.
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Iankiller99
October 16, 2014 9:09:12 AM
If Sli or Crossfire is something you think you absolutely need I can squeeze in a motherboard that supports it and better matches your componants color scheme. I suggest reading this for more info on sli and crossfire and whether you really need it in your pc http://lifehacker.com/5994276/is-it-worth-it-to-run-two... . If you have any other questions just reply on here or pm me. If you really want to talk about this over voice, I'm available anytime after 3pm CST my skype is Iankiller99.
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Iankiller99
October 16, 2014 9:38:52 AM
Also when people change things in builds could you PLEASE not use the same link when you change parts because then it makes me look stupid when you change your parts after the fact so for example i criticize the build you make for having such an expensive processor that puts him over budget and then he goes to look and that build has already been changed.
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HomerThompson
October 16, 2014 11:28:21 AM
Iankiller99
October 16, 2014 12:01:32 PM
HomerThompson said:
Well crap, that $640 i5 build is now $719, with a big part of that being that incredible deal on the XFX PSU for $45 yesterday now up to a more reasonable price (for its quality) of $64.Homer it was NEVER $640 mail in rebates dont count. He can only pay $650 ish max, mail in rebates only give you money back after you buy all of the parts.
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mdocod
October 16, 2014 12:42:27 PM
Things to consider:
Compute overhead in DX11 presents differently on nvidia and AMD GPUs. When implementing a Pentium for DX11 games, it's smarter to use a GCN architecture GPU from AMD. When implementing any AMD 2 module or larger CPU for DX11 games, or any lower end 4+ threaded Intel CPU (i3 or older i5), it is smarter to use a Kepler or Maxwell architecture GPU from Nvidia. Once we get into high end Intel chips it doesn't matter as much but the effect at work is still worth consideration depending on the intended goals. For high end builds, the Driver/API overhead on nvidia is better suited to builds with high FPS goals (>60), where the higher render performance for the money often found on AMD cards has often been better suited for builds with high visual quality goals.
This may seem confusing or counter-intuitive, but it has to do with the way that the driver and API compute workloads are split up (or not split up) for the CPU. Nvidia proprietary DX11 API and driver splits up the compute workload better, allowing it to scale into more threaded CPUs with reduced peak overhead for any one core, but increased overall workload. This makes the Nvidia solution well suited to CPUs with more interthread parallelism. The effects of this relationship between the software and hardware has a more profound effect on the low end.
One of the most popular budget combos these days is to use something like an i5-4440 and R9 270 together for ~$350.
Interestingly enough, For DX11 games, an 860K + GTX660 would actually have about the same performance and visual quality, and costs up to $100 less depending on implementation considerations.
For less than the implementation costs of an i5-4440+R9 270, we can pair together an 860K + GTX760, and have approximately the same performance minimums (FPS characteristics in compute intensive conditions) but with better visual quality settings. By selecting an nvidia GPU, we reduce compute overhead by ~20% for equal FPS in DX11 games compared to an AMD card. A haswell core is about 50% faster per clock than a Steamroller core, but when we combined the ~20% clock speed advantage, with the ~20% reduction in compute overhead that comes with the nvidia driver/API, the 860k + GM/GK winds up performing the same as the i5 + GCN. Fun eh?
The i5+AMD solution is still more versatile, as it offers excellent performance in a wider variety of games, including older DX10/9 games and would support Mantle games. If most of your current and future goals for gaming fall within DX11/DX12 the 860K + GTX760 may be a better value for you than an i5-4440 + R9 270.
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Compute overhead in DX11 presents differently on nvidia and AMD GPUs. When implementing a Pentium for DX11 games, it's smarter to use a GCN architecture GPU from AMD. When implementing any AMD 2 module or larger CPU for DX11 games, or any lower end 4+ threaded Intel CPU (i3 or older i5), it is smarter to use a Kepler or Maxwell architecture GPU from Nvidia. Once we get into high end Intel chips it doesn't matter as much but the effect at work is still worth consideration depending on the intended goals. For high end builds, the Driver/API overhead on nvidia is better suited to builds with high FPS goals (>60), where the higher render performance for the money often found on AMD cards has often been better suited for builds with high visual quality goals.
This may seem confusing or counter-intuitive, but it has to do with the way that the driver and API compute workloads are split up (or not split up) for the CPU. Nvidia proprietary DX11 API and driver splits up the compute workload better, allowing it to scale into more threaded CPUs with reduced peak overhead for any one core, but increased overall workload. This makes the Nvidia solution well suited to CPUs with more interthread parallelism. The effects of this relationship between the software and hardware has a more profound effect on the low end.
One of the most popular budget combos these days is to use something like an i5-4440 and R9 270 together for ~$350.
Interestingly enough, For DX11 games, an 860K + GTX660 would actually have about the same performance and visual quality, and costs up to $100 less depending on implementation considerations.
For less than the implementation costs of an i5-4440+R9 270, we can pair together an 860K + GTX760, and have approximately the same performance minimums (FPS characteristics in compute intensive conditions) but with better visual quality settings. By selecting an nvidia GPU, we reduce compute overhead by ~20% for equal FPS in DX11 games compared to an AMD card. A haswell core is about 50% faster per clock than a Steamroller core, but when we combined the ~20% clock speed advantage, with the ~20% reduction in compute overhead that comes with the nvidia driver/API, the 860k + GM/GK winds up performing the same as the i5 + GCN. Fun eh?
The i5+AMD solution is still more versatile, as it offers excellent performance in a wider variety of games, including older DX10/9 games and would support Mantle games. If most of your current and future goals for gaming fall within DX11/DX12 the 860K + GTX760 may be a better value for you than an i5-4440 + R9 270.
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Iankiller99
October 16, 2014 12:49:02 PM
mdocod said:
Things to consider:Compute overhead in DX11 presents differently on nvidia and AMD GPUs. When implementing a Pentium for DX11 games, it's smarter to use a GCN architecture GPU from AMD. When implementing any AMD 2 module or larger CPU for DX11 games, or any lower end 4+ threaded Intel CPU (i3 or older i5), it is smarter to use a Kepler or Maxwell architecture GPU from Nvidia. Once we get into high end Intel chips it doesn't matter as much but the effect at work is still worth consideration depending on the intended goals. For high end builds, the Driver/API overhead on nvidia is better suited to builds with high FPS goals (>60), where the higher render performance for the money often found on AMD cards has often been better suited for builds with high visual quality goals.
This may seem confusing or counter-intuitive, but it has to do with the way that the driver and API compute workloads are split up (or not split up) for the CPU. Nvidia proprietary DX11 API and driver splits up the compute workload better, allowing it to scale into more threaded CPUs with reduced peak overhead for any one core, but increased overall workload. This makes the Nvidia solution well suited to CPUs with more interthread parallelism. The effects of this relationship between the software and hardware has a more profound effect on the low end.
One of the most popular budget combos these days is to use something like an i5-4440 and R9 270 together for ~$350.
Interestingly enough, For DX11 games, an 860K + GTX660 would actually have about the same performance and visual quality, and costs up to $100 less depending on implementation considerations.
For less than the implementation costs of an i5-4440+R9 270, we can pair together an 860K + GTX760, and have approximately the same performance minimums (FPS characteristics in compute intensive conditions) but with better visual quality settings. By selecting an nvidia GPU, we reduce compute overhead by ~20% for equal FPS in DX11 games compared to an AMD card. A haswell core is about 50% faster per clock than a Steamroller core, but when we combined the ~20% clock speed advantage, with the ~20% reduction in compute overhead that comes with the nvidia driver/API, the 860k + GM/GK winds up performing the same as the i5 + GCN. Fun eh?
The i5+AMD solution is still more versatile, as it offers excellent performance in a wider variety of games, including older DX10/9 games and would support Mantle games. If most of your current and future goals for gaming fall within DX11/DX12 the 860K + GTX760 may be a better value for you than an i5-4440 + R9 270.
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I agree completely with what you're saying, I only hope that the beginner computer builder OP gets the main points from this instead of getting more confused. I think the only reason we've been straying away from the i5 builds is mainly the pricepoint, as it needs to be $650 or minimally over that to be within his purchaseable budget.
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mightyredpanda
October 17, 2014 11:33:49 AM
Iankiller99 said:
If Sli or Crossfire is something you think you absolutely need I can squeeze in a motherboard that supports it and better matches your componants color scheme. I suggest reading this for more info on sli and crossfire and whether you really need it in your pc http://lifehacker.com/5994276/is-it-worth-it-to-run-two... . If you have any other questions just reply on here or pm me. If you really want to talk about this over voice, I'm available anytime after 3pm CST my skype is Iankiller99. Iankiller, thanks for the insight. Seriously appreciate the thought you've put into your comments.
I like the build and I hear what you're saying about 760 vs r9 280 for the gpu. If you've got time this afternoon, I'll try to hit you on skype. Got a couple of minor questions, but I think I'm close to have a finalized build to start working on!
Thanks to everyone for the help, I'm sure I'll be back in the forums with more questions in the future.
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Iankiller99
October 17, 2014 11:46:24 AM
Iankiller, thanks for the insight. Seriously appreciate the thought you've put into your comments.
I like the build and I hear what you're saying about 760 vs r9 280 for the gpu. If you've got time this afternoon, I'll try to hit you on skype. Got a couple of minor questions, but I think I'm close to have a finalized build to start working on!
Thanks to everyone for the help, I'm sure I'll be back in the forums with more questions in the future. said:
Iankiller, thanks for the insight. Seriously appreciate the thought you've put into your comments.
I like the build and I hear what you're saying about 760 vs r9 280 for the gpu. If you've got time this afternoon, I'll try to hit you on skype. Got a couple of minor questions, but I think I'm close to have a finalized build to start working on!
Thanks to everyone for the help, I'm sure I'll be back in the forums with more questions in the future.
No problem, I really like being able to help people and try to do everything to make sure they get the best they can for what they're paying.
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HomerThompson
October 17, 2014 12:31:18 PM
mdocod said:
Things to consider:Compute overhead in DX11 presents differently on nvidia and AMD GPUs. When implementing a Pentium for DX11 games, it's smarter to use a GCN architecture GPU from AMD. When implementing any AMD 2 module or larger CPU for DX11 games, or any lower end 4+ threaded Intel CPU (i3 or older i5), it is smarter to use a Kepler or Maxwell architecture GPU from Nvidia. Once we get into high end Intel chips it doesn't matter as much but the effect at work is still worth consideration depending on the intended goals. For high end builds, the Driver/API overhead on nvidia is better suited to builds with high FPS goals (>60), where the higher render performance for the money often found on AMD cards has often been better suited for builds with high visual quality goals.
This may seem confusing or counter-intuitive, but it has to do with the way that the driver and API compute workloads are split up (or not split up) for the CPU. Nvidia proprietary DX11 API and driver splits up the compute workload better, allowing it to scale into more threaded CPUs with reduced peak overhead for any one core, but increased overall workload. This makes the Nvidia solution well suited to CPUs with more interthread parallelism. The effects of this relationship between the software and hardware has a more profound effect on the low end.
One of the most popular budget combos these days is to use something like an i5-4440 and R9 270 together for ~$350.
Interestingly enough, For DX11 games, an 860K + GTX660 would actually have about the same performance and visual quality, and costs up to $100 less depending on implementation considerations.
For less than the implementation costs of an i5-4440+R9 270, we can pair together an 860K + GTX760, and have approximately the same performance minimums (FPS characteristics in compute intensive conditions) but with better visual quality settings. By selecting an nvidia GPU, we reduce compute overhead by ~20% for equal FPS in DX11 games compared to an AMD card. A haswell core is about 50% faster per clock than a Steamroller core, but when we combined the ~20% clock speed advantage, with the ~20% reduction in compute overhead that comes with the nvidia driver/API, the 860k + GM/GK winds up performing the same as the i5 + GCN. Fun eh?
The i5+AMD solution is still more versatile, as it offers excellent performance in a wider variety of games, including older DX10/9 games and would support Mantle games. If most of your current and future goals for gaming fall within DX11/DX12 the 860K + GTX760 may be a better value for you than an i5-4440 + R9 270.
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Interesting. What do you consider the best combination in the $350-$400 range for CPU + GPU assuming you already have an LGA 1150 board? The combos that seem to fit in that price range are:
(1) $200 i5-4590 and $180 GTX 760 2 GB
(2) $200 i5-4590 and $180 R9 280
(3) $250 Xeon E3-1231v3 and $140 r9 270x 2GB
(4) $250 Xeon E3-1231v3 and $130 GTX 750 Ti
(5) $250 Xeon E3-1231v3 and $140 GTX 660
Not too interested in the $235 i5 4690k since my board is H81 and locked to 1.2V vcore (which allows a hell of an overclock on my G3258, but I doubt could do near as much with a 4 core CPU). I'm still leaning to the Xeon since I'm worried 4 threads will become a bottleneck in the next few years, as I'm starting to see games wanting i7's for recommended system specs; e.g., Shadow of Mordor, Star Citizen, Crysis 3.
I'd have to say my FPS goal would be VSync to 60 FPS @ 1920x1080 wherever possible, and locked 30 FPS with extremely steady frame times (so no stutter) at 1920x1080 on the most demanding games like Crysis 3 and Shadow of Mordor where locked 60 FPS is a pipe dream with anything less than an overclocked GTX 970.
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