Rack Mounting Modems
Tags:
- Ethernet Card
- Modem
- PCI
- Build
- Networking
Last response: in Networking
hbake17
October 17, 2014 4:32:57 AM
Hello I would like to build my own modem running smoothwall, I have been looking for ADSL2+ PCI cards with little success, they seam to be discontinued, is there a way to use a standard Ethernet port for the job I know the protocols are very different, but my current board and Asrock Z77 extreme 4 supports a PPPoE connection solely to update the bios and it runs through the Ethernet port so are there any other PCI Ethernet cards that support annex A PPPoE?
More about : rack mounting modems
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Reply to hbake17
Annex A is part of the DSL modem, not the router. PPPoE and ADSL-Ethernet layer 1 convertion are separate, and don't have to happen in the same device.
Smoothwall acts as a router, not a modem.
Either get a dedicated modem, or get a modem/router and put it in bridge mode, which provides a PPPoE over a standard cat5 ethernet cable.
Smoothwall acts as a router, not a modem.
Either get a dedicated modem, or get a modem/router and put it in bridge mode, which provides a PPPoE over a standard cat5 ethernet cable.
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Reply to Someone Somewhere
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hbake17
October 17, 2014 5:22:56 AM
Someone Somewhere said:
Annex A is part of the DSL modem, not the router. PPPoE and ADSL-Ethernet layer 1 convertion are separate, and don't have to happen in the same device.Smoothwall acts as a router, not a modem.
Either get a dedicated modem, or get a modem/router and put it in bridge mode, which provides a PPPoE over a standard cat5 ethernet cable.
While it has been awhile the last copy of smoothwall I had included set up for a PPPoE and PPPoA settings, can they be used for something other than connecting to the ISP?
I currently have a fritzbox 7390 while it runs alright it does have its draw backs, I want to build it all in one so its less space taken up in the rack and fewer cables needed, I will then also be able to update each part as newer editions come out or better ones.
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PPPoE and PPPoA are layer 2 protocols; you still need a layer one connection to the ISP (usually xDSL or GPON fibre; cable isn't usually delivered with PPP that I know of).
A modem converts between xDSL and some other layer 1 protocol. You will need one of these somewhere, be it a PCI, USB, or Ethernet modem, or one integrated into a larger device (like the fritzbox, though you can make it act as one).
A modem converts between xDSL and some other layer 1 protocol. You will need one of these somewhere, be it a PCI, USB, or Ethernet modem, or one integrated into a larger device (like the fritzbox, though you can make it act as one).
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hbake17
October 17, 2014 6:24:59 AM
Ahh fair enough, I am not all that familiar with modem technology, but my mobo must contain the first layer as I was able to connect the splitter filter to the wall then run an Ethernet cable to my mobo and make the connection to optusnet through PPPoE but it will only allow me to download updates for the UEFI, when I tried logging into optusnet through windows I was unable to make a connection, which confused me to no end, that was when I brought the Fritzbox to replace the crappy modem supplied with the plan.
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Reply to hbake17
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That sounds way wrong... if it's xDSL, there should be no ethernet port on a splitter.
I suspect you'll find that you were connecting a phone cable to your motherboard (which is a bad idea in the first place), and that the UEFI update test would have worked just as well if you had nothing in the port at all.
The exception would be if what you called a 'splitter' is in fact a modem, which is what you need.
I suspect you'll find that you were connecting a phone cable to your motherboard (which is a bad idea in the first place), and that the UEFI update test would have worked just as well if you had nothing in the port at all.
The exception would be if what you called a 'splitter' is in fact a modem, which is what you need.
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hbake17
October 17, 2014 6:58:37 AM
The splitter filter came with my first modem from Telstra, it had an Ethernet port on one side marked "in" and two on the opposing side marked phone and internet each had a cap that converted the Ethernet port to an RJ12 port for phone line to be put in, thats how it was used with a modem and a phone to filter them. I am not sure what its intended purpose was I assumed business would use it in cases where a bandwidth higher than an RJ12 connection was needed, and it worked to allow my mobo to connect to the optusnet servers when I was living in Rockhampton which I used an RJ45 cable I crimped specially for the occasion from the internet port to my mobos Ethernet connection. As for the UEFI it actually downloaded an update from the Asrock servers it had defiantly established a connection with the internet with out a modem being between my computer and the wall socket.
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hbake17
October 17, 2014 7:29:10 AM
While I dont have the Splitter filter any longer this is what it was http://www.techbuy.com.au/p/132786/NETWORKING_LINE_FILT...
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hbake17
October 17, 2014 8:02:28 AM
Nope when I got the splitter filter back in 07 the NBN was not even conceived of as far as I know, I have not lived in an area where it is available either the liberal government cut its funding before it could be installed in Rockhampton, and it's not available in my apartment in Brisbane either. I did post a link to techbuy in the reply above yours that one is probably more advanced as its 7 years newer but that's what it looked like.
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Reply to hbake17
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Sorry; replied before I saw your post.
That's definitely a filter, with no active components. And most likely interrupts the extra pairs needed for ethernet vs DSL.
There's no way in hell that, with that connected to the wall and the 'ADSL MODEM' port connected directly to the ethernet port on your machine, it had internet. Just nope. Not even PPPoE; it wouldn't even get a link.
Sorry, but I don't really see how you managed that.
That's definitely a filter, with no active components. And most likely interrupts the extra pairs needed for ethernet vs DSL.
There's no way in hell that, with that connected to the wall and the 'ADSL MODEM' port connected directly to the ethernet port on your machine, it had internet. Just nope. Not even PPPoE; it wouldn't even get a link.
Sorry, but I don't really see how you managed that.
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hbake17
October 17, 2014 8:38:00 AM
You clearly know more than I do about modems and their inner workings, I have no reason to lie about it, this thread was started because I wanted to know if other NICs could do it on the OS level as mine was unable to I cant explain how it worked but you did mention the PPPoE is a second layer I can only assume the the xDNS you spoke of is contained in either the NICS chips or the UEFI it self, the system seamed to be set up to allow a non modem connect computer to download the processor compatibility updates. I will ask Asrock about this as it is quite confusing.
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Reply to hbake17
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x = insert a character here. ADSL, VDSL, SHDSL. All forms of Digital Subscriber Line.
As far as I know, no motherboard natively supports DSL; all need an add-on.
You may want to look up the OSI model, which is where calling DSL 'Layer 1' comes from. Parts of Ethernet are layer 1, parts are layer 2.
I don't know what is going on with ASRock; are you sure you didn't have an extra modem or router connected? Could it have been reading off a CD?
As far as I know, no motherboard natively supports DSL; all need an add-on.
You may want to look up the OSI model, which is where calling DSL 'Layer 1' comes from. Parts of Ethernet are layer 1, parts are layer 2.
I don't know what is going on with ASRock; are you sure you didn't have an extra modem or router connected? Could it have been reading off a CD?
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hbake17
October 17, 2014 9:06:06 AM
Ahh good to know, well it must have been ADSL as that was the type of connection I had/have.
That was my understanding as well which was why I was surprised when I was able to connect to the PPPoE settings, I was quite happy that it worked then not so much when the OS tests failed.
That is quite useful information thank you.
My memory is never perfect there could have been a disk in the drive but there was certainly no extra modems or modem routers connected, I have only ever had one in use at a time and when running the test the modem was disconnected from the power as it was pointless to have it on while not connected to the phone line. I sent them a message asking if they have support for physical layers in their board.
What use does PPPoE serve when there is no physical layer? Why would there be settings for it in the UEFI control panel?
That was my understanding as well which was why I was surprised when I was able to connect to the PPPoE settings, I was quite happy that it worked then not so much when the OS tests failed.
That is quite useful information thank you.
My memory is never perfect there could have been a disk in the drive but there was certainly no extra modems or modem routers connected, I have only ever had one in use at a time and when running the test the modem was disconnected from the power as it was pointless to have it on while not connected to the phone line. I sent them a message asking if they have support for physical layers in their board.
What use does PPPoE serve when there is no physical layer? Why would there be settings for it in the UEFI control panel?
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bill001g
October 17, 2014 9:46:09 AM
Someone somewhere has done a good job of explaining this but as a extreme example to make a point. Nobody would think (hopefully) that you could just crimp a RJ45 on the end of a power cord and plug it into the wall to replace a powerline network device. These powerline devices although nobody calls them modems actually perform the same purpose as a DSL modem. They both examples of what is more properly called a bridge. The confusion comes that the telephone company uses RJ45 for many different forms of telephone lines...many of which are incompatible.
If you happened to have certain kinds of ISDN line in your house (used to be used for "high" ie 128k internet) and you plugged that RJ45 plug into your PC you would fry it almost instantly much like hooking a RJ45 on a power cord.
A home telephone line will generally not damage a PC if you managed to get it plugged in. Just try touching the wires of a ringing phone if you want to see that a phone line is very different than a ethernet connection.
If you happened to have certain kinds of ISDN line in your house (used to be used for "high" ie 128k internet) and you plugged that RJ45 plug into your PC you would fry it almost instantly much like hooking a RJ45 on a power cord.
A home telephone line will generally not damage a PC if you managed to get it plugged in. Just try touching the wires of a ringing phone if you want to see that a phone line is very different than a ethernet connection.
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Reply to bill001g
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hbake17
October 17, 2014 10:00:21 AM
Ahh fair enough, I can still only put it down to that the board must contain the ability to connect to the ADSL, it requested my username and password and came up with the information of my ISP,, much like my modem does, just not as in-depth.
Bill001g That sure is an extreme example 240V AC would sure do some damage to the computer phone lines run at 75V DC to my understanding, I am unsure of the voltage of a Ethernet cable but I would say it is less than a phone line, still the board I used is still in use and still connects to the network so no damage was incurred from my test, I didnt have an IDSN setup just a standard home phone and internet package running through a splitter filter the phone was plugged in at the time of my test as well if that helps, tho I think I would rather use a multimeter than touch an active cable I would get a reading rather than a shock.
Bill001g That sure is an extreme example 240V AC would sure do some damage to the computer phone lines run at 75V DC to my understanding, I am unsure of the voltage of a Ethernet cable but I would say it is less than a phone line, still the board I used is still in use and still connects to the network so no damage was incurred from my test, I didnt have an IDSN setup just a standard home phone and internet package running through a splitter filter the phone was plugged in at the time of my test as well if that helps, tho I think I would rather use a multimeter than touch an active cable I would get a reading rather than a shock.
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Reply to hbake17
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Pretty sure phone lines are AC. Polarity does not matter.
Ethernet runs at a couple of volts, though PoE is 48VDC. Then again, PoE has voltage between pairs (not between the wires of one pair), and ethernet has magnetics to remove that.
It wouldn't be too hard for your motherboard to ask for a password even if it can't validate it.
Ethernet runs at a couple of volts, though PoE is 48VDC. Then again, PoE has voltage between pairs (not between the wires of one pair), and ethernet has magnetics to remove that.
It wouldn't be too hard for your motherboard to ask for a password even if it can't validate it.
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hbake17
October 17, 2014 7:22:05 PM
When ringing phone lines are AC but they are DC when not in use. I had to look that one up again as its been a while, an Inverter can be used to power your house hold items in a black out but your not allowed to do so.
Indeed it could ask for a password even if it couldnt validate it but it would be quite pointless to request a username and password unless it had a reason for it, the only other thing I could think of is that perhaps there are other devices you can have on lan that require a PPPoE username and password but if you have two NICs on one board and bridge them with one connected to a modem you dont need to use a password it automatically accesses them.
Last night before passing out I tried to connect to the update server again with no luck as while connected to a modem the password and username are useless, it does how ever request your region that said it also could not connect when on DHCP I am not sure whats going on there, I will be going back to Rockhampton for my little brother birthday next month and I will take the splitter filter I got with my new optus modem to replace the old one that is in use at my old place so I can bring it here and run the tests again. I am quite perplexed given the new information on the OSI systems you provided there should not have been a way to connect with out some kind of bottom layer to handle the current, the new tests should clear up any confusion I am having.
Indeed it could ask for a password even if it couldnt validate it but it would be quite pointless to request a username and password unless it had a reason for it, the only other thing I could think of is that perhaps there are other devices you can have on lan that require a PPPoE username and password but if you have two NICs on one board and bridge them with one connected to a modem you dont need to use a password it automatically accesses them.
Last night before passing out I tried to connect to the update server again with no luck as while connected to a modem the password and username are useless, it does how ever request your region that said it also could not connect when on DHCP I am not sure whats going on there, I will be going back to Rockhampton for my little brother birthday next month and I will take the splitter filter I got with my new optus modem to replace the old one that is in use at my old place so I can bring it here and run the tests again. I am quite perplexed given the new information on the OSI systems you provided there should not have been a way to connect with out some kind of bottom layer to handle the current, the new tests should clear up any confusion I am having.
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Reply to hbake17
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PPP is called Point to Point Protocol for a reason; it can only connect to one thing. It can't work on a LAN that I know of.
You can enter a PPP username/password even when it can't connect to the other end; it just caches it until it can. That's my guess, though I'm not sure on how you got that it managed to talk to the servers and update.
You can enter a PPP username/password even when it can't connect to the other end; it just caches it until it can. That's my guess, though I'm not sure on how you got that it managed to talk to the servers and update.
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hbake17
October 18, 2014 1:03:22 AM
Ahh fair enough, then its purpose must be to connect to an ISP or something similar, I can't imagine they would add it if it served no purpose, have you seen other boards with a PPPoE connection setting in the UEFI if so what was it for?
As for caching to memory where would it then use it?
On a positive note I have found an ADSL2+ PCI card in the UK for around $44 AUD I shall be getting one next pay.
As for caching to memory where would it then use it?
On a positive note I have found an ADSL2+ PCI card in the UK for around $44 AUD I shall be getting one next pay.
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Reply to hbake17
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There are ISPs that use a direct ethernet connection (if you had either a separate cable modem, separate DSL modem, or an ONT, this is what you'd be presented with). If you only had one PC and no router, then PPPoE down an ethernet cable would be how you connect to the internet.
My guess is the motherboard would save the connection passwords for if & when you actually connected it to something.
My guess is the motherboard would save the connection passwords for if & when you actually connected it to something.
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hbake17
October 18, 2014 1:21:22 PM
Ahh well given all the information I would say that the board have given a false read out, I cant check if it did download or not as it was for new processors, tho I do need a new one so I might just replace the crappy one I have now with some thing a little better, I will still run that test just to work out why it went as far as it did.
I am guessing you mean a modem card, as the UEFIs update function would not be able to interact with the OS or other parts of the UEFI.
Thanks for all your help on this.
I am guessing you mean a modem card, as the UEFIs update function would not be able to interact with the OS or other parts of the UEFI.
Thanks for all your help on this.
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