Motherboard sans NIC

smm123 · Oct 18, 2014

I am wondering if anyone knows where I can purchase a motherboard that does not have an onboard NIC.

smackers_12 · Oct 18, 2014

Why do you want that? You can still use a dedicated NIC if you want to

smm123 · Oct 18, 2014

For security reasons, I want to build a PC or laptop that has no integrated network capability. My research tells me the older motherboards came without the NIC integrated, but rather would have slots for removable cards. I would like to have that level of control.

smackers_12 · Oct 18, 2014

I dont know if you could still buy them, most boards since lga 775 have integrated nics, anything older than that will be underpowered. You could pull the pins from the ethernet port and that would fix that problem

Chicano · Oct 18, 2014

Don't think you will find one... the onboard NIC is a standard component in all motherboards from early 00's. If you don't want it active, you could disable it in the Device Manager, or plug it with one of these
http://www.l-com.com/ethernet-rj45-protective-covers-for-jacks-pkg-100
And if you want to disable permanently you could remove the small wires/pins in the NIC port as suggested above with a needle nose plier.

EDIT: You could even plug the ethernet port filling it with silicone.

smm123 · Oct 19, 2014

Thank you so much for your responses. I will explore all of your suggestions.

smm123 · Oct 19, 2014

Mulling over these responses, and looking at the link you provide, you are speaking about the actual physical port where one would plug in the connector. I'm talking about something else. I want to set up a computer where nobody could hack in (by knowing the MAC number), because there is no network capability (unless I PHYSICALLY enable it). If a committed, sophisticated hacker targets you (for whatever the reason) he/she can hack into your computer through any available wifi (neighbors, hotspots, etc.). I have laptops that have already been hacked into, and they are "in" -- meaning they have remote access permanently. It's too complicated to get into, but the only way I have divined to remedy the problem is to build a pc that has no network capability. Speed/power is not my concern, because I don't intend to access the internet, nor do I need high end graphics or any such thing. I did disable the wireless and and the network function in BIOS, and they maintained access. It's esoteric, it seems, to most folks. There must be a way. If anyone is interested and has any suggestions, I would be grateful to hear them. Thank you.

edit: the MAC number is part of this issue (for instance, once they have the MAC number to my cable modem, they surf right on in to my PC/laptop -- don't ask how they get it; the possibilities are endless); but in the devices I have, they have something embedded at a deep level (some kind of backdoor) that provides them permanent presence and access. There must be a way. I thought a non-integrated motherboard (sans NIC) would be a way to accomplish my objective.

Chicano · Oct 19, 2014

OK so it's not the ethernet connector you want disabled, but the Wireless card? in that case desktop motherboards don't have wireless onboard chip (unless you intentionally buy one with it)... a desktop/PC would be a solution.

If that's not a solution, you'd need to provide more detailed information on Internet connections setup; Do you have wired or wireless or both, device brand and model?... If you have wireless you can change the wireless modem/router default name and password. These are widely know and even published online by their Manufacturers, so if you have never changed them, your wireless connection is vulnerable.

Change the Default Password on a Network Router
http://compnetworking.about.com/od/routers/ss/routerpassword.htm

Access the router configuration
http://compnetworking.about.com/od/routers/g/192_168_0_1_def.htm

Changing the MAC address may be another solution:
Start / Computer right click and select Manage / Device Manager / Network Adapaters / right click on the Wireless card / Properties / Advanced / Network Address / type any combination of 12 letters and numbers / press OK.

smackers_12 · Oct 19, 2014

Most desktop boards dont actually have wireless chips

smm123 · Oct 19, 2014

I thank you both for your responses. Just to clarify, you're saying that a desktop motherboard has no wifi capability integrated? So there is no way, with a desktop I build, a skilled hacker could, say, hack in through a neighboring wifi, or even a wifi set up in my own place? There is no way to hack in where the motherboard's NIC card only supports ethernet, by design, because it is specifically made for a desktop?

smackers_12 · Oct 19, 2014

smm123 :

Most boards don't, just make sure you dont buy a board with wireless capabilities. Most are only wired.

smm123 · Oct 22, 2014

I am sort of learning on one of my laptops (Lenovo ideapad N586), and I have taken it apart and am down to the motherboard. I would like to try to disconnect the small wires/pins in the onboard NIC/ethernet/lan card (I already took out the separate wifi card), as mentioned, but I'm looking at the thing and it's all greek to me (for the moment). I went online to try to find a picture of this particular motherboard with descriptions of each component (where it is on the board, etc.), and I can't find anything. I was wondering if one of you fine folks could point me to where on this motherboard I can locate the onboard NIC and the pins, so I can disconnect them. I can upload a picture of the motherboard if that would help It's a HannStar J MV-4. I would be most appreciative for any help. Thank you again.

I know it's rudimentary stuff, but everyone has to start somewhere!

Chicano · Oct 22, 2014

FYI the NIC connector is on the back of the laptpop, it's a 'telephpone-like' connector only larger http://bit.do/ETHERNET-NIC-PORT
BUT you don't have to do anything to it... there is no way a NIC (Ethernet Adapter) can receive (or send) a "radio" signal from (or to) a Wi-Fi antenna. All portable computers have Wi-Fi integrated (except old pre wi-fi models) because you can only (mostly) use wireless internet everywhere you take it, it's not the case with Wired NIC connections whether it's a laptop or desktop.

smm123 · Oct 22, 2014

Thank you again for your response. May I ask you two other questions: If the laptop had a separate wifi card (which I removed), would that mean that there would not also be an integrated wifi component to the NIC -- is there any reason the manufacturer would have included both? Question two: is it possible that a desktop (Dell, circa 1998) would have an integrated wifi component? I didn't think wifi was available at that time (I was still using AOL dial up).

smm123 · Oct 22, 2014

If you don't mind, let me ask you one more question What would happen if I located the onboard ethernet/lan NIC and just physically broke it in some way (e.g., put a pin through it or something); would that effect anything else on the board or the functioning of the computer? In other words, my ability to create word processing files, or anything that does not require accessing a network?

Chicano · Oct 22, 2014

smm123 :

Q1: If you removed the wifi card, that would mean the NIC is separate and does not have integrated wifi capability... if it had (which I've never heard of) the laptop would have two wifi cards, and that's not feasible unless it's a high priced model and it still would be a special model. You could look up the model specifications, manual, etc. for peace of mind but I'd be 99.99% certain there is no chance of that possibility.

Q2: There is no chance a 98 model would have Wi-Fi integrated, it was still in development as you can read here.
http://www.economist.com/node/2724397

Chicano · Oct 22, 2014

smm123 :

If you broke the NIC card, you would have had to break vital motherboard wiring tracks, or short-circuit them in some way to affect computer performance in any other way.. and if you only broke the ethernet connection pins, or as I understand, put a pin through plastic without touching wires/pins, there is no chance of that.

USAFRet · Oct 22, 2014

smm123 :

Correct. The vast majority of desktop motherboards have no built in WiFi. You have to look hard for one.

There is no way to hack into the system, other than physically plugging a cable into the motherboard LAN port.
Not because it is 'made for a desktop', but rather because the wireless circuitry literally does not exist.

smackers_12 · Oct 22, 2014

smm123 :

If you are hell bent on wrecking it so badly it couldnt possibly be used just rip the pins out of the ethernet port. Ripping the chip off its going to be really hard without wreckinganything else on the board. As long as there is no wifi card or wifi capability people will have to physically plug a wire into your computer to have it access the internet and if you remove the pins you make it even harder. The onboard NIC cannot interact with wifi without a wifi card if it does not have wifi on the motherboard, in fact some of the mobos that have integrated wifi have it on a seperate card. If you are really that paranoid just wreck the socket

smm123 · Oct 22, 2014

Thank you all for your responses. I have to tell you, this one laptop I have taken apart, it had been hacked into with some kind of deep rootkit/backdoor thing (it's quite sophisticated). Once they had accomplished this remote access to it, there was no getting them out. I don't know exactly what/how, but I did find in my research some information: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/428652/a-computer-infection-that-can-never-be-cured/; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootkit. I learned early on that once they had the MAC number (which is attached to the NIC), they had permanent access. First I disabled it in BIOS. They were still in. After I removed the wifi card, they were still in. They seemed to get remote access to the Dell I mention above. I thought I had figured it out when I recalled I had this old desktop in storage, figuring it couldn't possibly have any wifi capability. Within 24 hours they were in. Whatever it is, there's something very sophisticated here. It certainly is belied by what you folks are saying about the wifi vs. the standard ethernet. It sounds crazy, I know. But I'm just a lay person thrust into becoming learned on these things. I am going to do some research on precisely how wifi works, because this is all new to me on the technical level (most of us just "plug and go"

). I do very much appreciate the information you folks have provided.

EDIT: initially, they gained access to the MAC number on the modem, and once they had that, they were in. I could take that laptop anywhere, and they're in.

smm123 · Oct 22, 2014

This is another related article: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/519661/nsas-own-hardware-backdoors-may-still-be-a-problem-from-hell/, if you're interested.

Chicano · Oct 22, 2014

Wel, the MAC address may have been used initially but once they're in they can install a bug that would broadcast through the wireless card... and if you passed information from the laptop to the deskstop, you could have infected it, but there is no way a desktop without wireless can broadcast or receive data without a wired connection... if that apparently happened, the computer may have a wireless PCI card installed, check that possibility.

Karsten75 · Oct 22, 2014

smm123 :

The one way you can avoid this issue: http://i.imgur.com/aafexUT.gif

smm123 · Oct 22, 2014

Chicano :

Okay, that's a possibility. At least some explanation for the inexplicable!! Next up for tear-down, the desktop. At least I'm learning something new. Thanks again. I think I used a jump drive that I had used on the infected laptop. Good to know, good to know. Thanks so much. Very appreciative.

smackers_12 · Oct 22, 2014

smm123 :

Thank you all for your responses. I have to tell you, this one laptop I have taken apart, it had been hacked into with some kind of deep rootkit/backdoor thing (it's quite sophisticated). Once they had accomplished this remote access to it, there was no getting them out. I don't know exactly what/how, but I did find in my research some information: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/428652/a-computer-infection-that-can-never-be-cured/; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootkit. I learned early on that once they had the MAC number (which is attached to the NIC), they had permanent access. First I disabled it in BIOS. They were still in. After I removed the wifi card, they were still in. They seemed to get remote access to the Dell I mention above. I thought I had figured it out when I recalled I had this old desktop in storage, figuring it couldn't possibly have any wifi capability. Within 24 hours they were in. Whatever it is, there's something very sophisticated here. It certainly is belied by what you folks are saying about the wifi vs. the standard ethernet. It sounds crazy, I know. But I'm just a lay person thrust into becoming learned on these things. I am going to do some research on precisely how wifi works, because this is all new to me on the technical level (most of us just "plug and go"

). I do very much appreciate the information you folks have provided.

EDIT: initially, they gained access to the MAC number on the modem, and once they had that, they were in. I could take that laptop anywhere, and they're in.

With a desktop with no wireless connectivity this is impossible. They cannot be inside your system if you are not connected to the internet short of physically being at your machine.

Motherboard sans NIC

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