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freakyfriday

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I have been trying but failing to get my SPDIF output on my Asus M5A97 evo2.0 MoBo.. but for some unknown reason I can't get it woking.... I'm using a Panasonic SA-PT860 home cinema unit for my sound, but I get no audio signal form the PC... I am having to use the analogue inputs instead, and I can only get 2 speakers working using this... I don't have PC specific speakers, just the home cinema system I use for my Sky TV and games console.... The DVI/HDMI cable to the TV is also only producing 2 channel audio... I have entered the setting and set it to 5.1, but this has no effect.... I only have 2 analogue audio inputs on the back of my home cinema system so I can't connect to 5.1 this way either....

The other issue is a blacked out Bios screen that only appears when I move the mouse across the screen slowly uncovering the screen, a screen that I can't interact with, so I can't change the audio settings here....

Does anyone have any ideas...

Cheers
 
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No worries. I like to at least try to see a problem through to the bitter end, if you know what I mean.

It also looks like we may be on the right track here.

For starters, since you have a pretty extensive looking list of options in your Sound Control Panel, let's start by turning off the obvious choices that we don't want, so the computer discounts them as even relevant here.

To disable a sound device, simply right mouse-click it in the list and choose Disable. Windows will no longer be able to route sound to that particular device, which is fine. Most usage scenarios ever only use a single output, and this guarantees that, if only one device remains, Windows will have no choice in the matter of where to route sound.

Two things may...
Your motherboard seems perfectly suited to pair with your Panasonic amplifier.

My first question would be, what audio are you expecting to be playing in 5.1? Movies and some television programs you may play on the computer are about the only content that will be pre-encoded to actually play with more than 2 channels of sound. Games, while they support surround, require real-time encoding be in place on the computer to translate the game's output to a surround signal which is then sent to your external audio equipment. In your case, you should be using DTS-Connect, as
that is what both your motherboard and amplifier support.

When attempting to use the SPDIF output of the motherboard, have you first configured the computer not to use the HDMI audio device?
 

freakyfriday

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It's purely a games machine. I use SPDIF from my sky box to the amp for TV, all great...
It seems to be something recent, I was using another pc with SPDIF working perfect for a while, and one day it just stopped, the amp can't pick up the dolby signal (the dolby icon on the amp doesn't illuminate when SPDIF is inserted)..
On the new PC it wasn't working straight away....

However, I have found a way around it by connecting analogue directly to my TV that is connected to my amp, and I can get 5.1, or some semblence of 5.1... In the Asus sound manager I have had to change the audio setting to stereo (???) and now I can get 5.1... go figure.

But this is not my idea solution, only an adequate tape over....

I would love to know how to change the HDMI to SPDIF setting without having to enter bios, because at the moment, my bios screen seem to be playing hooky, I enter, and am faced with a black screen, I move the mouse and it reveals a little bit of the bios screen at a time, but not a bios screen I can interact with... I have tried numerous times but always the same result.... If anyone knows how to suss that problem out, I would be appreciative, luckily, it doesn't effect my use of the PC beyond the sound settings, so far....

Cheers for the reply
 
I would stop worrying about your computer's BIOS in relation to your sound. It really isn't related to what you're trying to do.

One issue I believe you are facing is, your HDMI and SPDIF connector on your motherboard are two distinctly separate audio devices. When your computer outputs audio, it has to choose one of those two audio devices to send the sound to. If you are hearing your audio currently through your HDMI connected screen, you will not be getting the same sound through your SPDIF, as the computer is not sending the sound there. Duplicating the sound, or sending the sound to every output available at the same time, is not an option.

For your SPDIF to be active, you have to set that as your default audio device or alternatively, specify in each program (not always possible) to output to your SPDIF. Also, sometimes you must specify in Windows for that playback device that it is to output digital sound.

To address your concern that your Dolby light on your Panasonic unit doesn't light when using SPDIF from your computer - It shouldn't. SPDIF and Dolby are two different things. SPDIF is only the connection type. Dolby is an encoding type, so unless you are sending Dolby encoded audio, or having your Panasonic up-mix or convert to Dolby, you should be getting standard stereo. According to Asus's specifications page for your board, they do not provide Dolby support, so, that's not really an option, but that's also not a major concern. Asus has chosen to provide support with your motherboard for the DTS Connect format instead, which your Panasonic amplifier should handle fine. Instead of Dolby lighting up, you should see the letters DTS, when it is decoding DTS encoded audio content.

For your DTS to work correctly, you will need to ensure you have the correct, DTS enabled driver from Asus, which should provide an option for DTS Connect output via your SPDIF connection. Once you have that in place, have the SPDIF designated as the default audio device for Windows to be outputting sound to, and have ensured that it is sending digital audio, you should be set for playing games in surround.

Concerning your Sky box you use for TV working fine, that makes sense. TV signals have their audio already encoded into Dolby or DTS, so as long as the amplifier is seeing the audio, it will decode it, as it has the encoded audio data. Since computers do not automatically encode to Dolby or DTS by default, you won't get that feature unless you track it down and figure out how to turn it on. The default audio format for SPDIF or other forms of digital audio is simple stereo. Encoding Dolby or DTS is the method used to overcome this for multi-channel sound. Encoding generally carries a licensing cost, which manufacturers obviously don't want to pay needlessly, so often times you don't even have the option available.

On the previous PC that had the SPDIF working correctly, it's very likely somebody had previously configured it for SPDIF output, or had done so during any initial setup for you.

One thing to note is that, sometimes when you install graphics drivers or connect a new HDMI display device, the default audio device may switch from analog or the motherboard's SPDIF to the graphic card's HDMI audio device instead. Make sure you check in the Windows Sound Devices Control Panel section to determine where Windows is trying to route your sound.
 

freakyfriday

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bigpinkdragon... Love the name... Cheers for the detail in your response.. I will double check I have the correct DTS driver and fingers crossd it will solve my issue... I have been to Windows Sound Devices and been through all the optins, setting each to default and checking all options, but only the analoge connection works, or just straight up by passing the MoBo and connecting straight to the TV.....
My mistake in thinking the dolby light should appear was a tad silly, but we learn through trial and error, and in my case, begging for help, so cheers again...
My issue with the Bios screen (still not working properly), was thinking that maybe I could change the appropriate settings from HDMI to SPDIF...

Again, cheers..
 
Your HDMI audio options should actually be related to your graphics device in your computer. Oddly as it may seem at first, HDMI requires that the audio have a protected path so no nasty pirates can tap into it and make duplicates. While this may sound like a good idea on the surface, it's really only caused headaches for the users who just want to use it normally over the years. To provide the protected audio path, graphic device manufacturers have had to build audio devices into their graphics devices, which often results in pointlessly replicated equipment inside computers. Furthermore, you run into the problem that, your computer is usually only going to ever send sound to a single output device, so it causes confusion when a person doesn't realize the HDMI audio is actually a second audio device, not simply a different path for your primary audio device to pick from. Having been through your Sound Control Panel options, you've probably seen what I'm talking about - multiple devices to pick from.

Something you might try with your SPDIF output is going to the Supported Formats and testing each output type. There should be options for Dolby, DTS, and probably even Microsoft WMA. These tests are pre-encoded, so selecting one of those options and pressing the test button allow you to at least determine if your computer will pass pre-encoded sound through the device you're testing.
 

freakyfriday

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I downloaded and installed the audio driver, which was the same one I already had, and for about 10 mins while I was setting up my system I had the DTS option. But it still gave me no joy, and for some unknown reason... after unpluging the SPDIF lead and reconnecting the analogue lead, I no longer had the DTS option available, even when reconnecting the SPDIF... I am clueless.. I just can't get it working properly... I had the 5.1 set and clicked test, but again for some unknown reason the sound that should be coming from the rear speakers, was coming from the front at an almost inaudible level... I increased Db in room correction with the boards sound manager, but no change... I'm beginning to think I should give it a rest and buy a damned sound card.... But it is bugging the hell out of me now... I know the Amp and individual speakers are working because I have checked them, and rechecked them.... Asus are no help either...

The bios screen is a weird one, I borrowed a normal PC monitor off a friend and it worked straight away, connected back to me TV and back to the old blacked out screen... ???????
 
I appreciate your frustration with this project. Purchasing a sound card is not really the solution, as this is a configuration issue. After adding the sound card, you will be presented with the situation of having to correctly configure it for the output you are trying to achieve.

If I may ask, what Playback Devices are available to you under your Sound Control Panel configuration options? It may be beneficial for the time being to right mouse-click the device(s) we're not wanting to use and only leave enabled the one single device we do want to use. This can prevent the chances of sound being sent to the wrong device.

Whether you have your SPDIF connection attached or not should in no way determine settings available to you. While jack detection is sometimes possible with older analog connections, an SPDIF output has no such ability, therefore the computer has no way of knowing whether or not you're SPDIF connector has anything plugged into it.
 

freakyfriday

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Scrolling through the playback devices I am not finding any for the SPDIF input,
1. Realtek Digital Output- Jack info-ATAPI internal connector
2.Realtek Digital Output(optical)- Rear panel optical jack, orange input on back...
3, Speakers, offering up SL,SR,( grey input), C Sub (orange), RL,RR (black) and L,R (green)
4, 42 FDH_LCD_TV, HDMI Digital Jack
5-10, Digital display audio, not plugged in...
11,Realtek HD Audio 2nd input(headphones)

In the MSI Sound Manager, it has two options when analogue cable is unplugged, Digital Output, Digital Output(optical)

I have hidden used options and tried with the remaining option various combinations but no joy.

If I plug an anologue cable into the headphone jack, I get the DTS UltraPC 2 option, but this only provides stereo, and isn't what I'm dreaming of right now...

I appreciate your sticking with this...
 
No worries. I like to at least try to see a problem through to the bitter end, if you know what I mean.

It also looks like we may be on the right track here.

For starters, since you have a pretty extensive looking list of options in your Sound Control Panel, let's start by turning off the obvious choices that we don't want, so the computer discounts them as even relevant here.

To disable a sound device, simply right mouse-click it in the list and choose Disable. Windows will no longer be able to route sound to that particular device, which is fine. Most usage scenarios ever only use a single output, and this guarantees that, if only one device remains, Windows will have no choice in the matter of where to route sound.

Two things may happen once you disable a sound device. It may become grayed out and marked as disabled, or it may disappear from the list entirely. If you are concerned about enabling any outputs after you've disabled them, it's fairly straightforward. If you can see the disabled devices on the list, simply right mouse-click it and choose enable. If the device has instead disappeared, right mouse click an empty space in the list, and you'll get a menu with the option to show disabled devices, at which point you'll see everything that's been disabled.

The single device you want to have enabled in your Playback devices list is the Realtek Digital Output(Optical). After disabling all of the other devices, the next step is to go through each page of the Properties for the Optical output device.

On the General tab, ensure Device usage is set to "Use this device (enabled)"

On the Supported Formats tab, you should be able to check both the DTS Audio and Dolby Digital boxes, and below, the 44.1 kHz and 48.0 kHz boxes. This determines how sound is formatted for the device and ultimately is determined by what your Panasonic receiver can recognize and decode. These are pretty safe, generic options that almost all modern equipment supports.

The Levels tab is likely going to have a single slider which will correspond with the master volume slider in your computer's audio mixer that you find by mouse-clicking the small speaker icon in the system notification area (by the clock in the bottom right corner). For our purposes, setting the level tab above 50 should be good. Essentially, since we're trying to send a digital signal to a receiver, once it's all working, you could just set the master volume to 100 and then use the volume control of the receiver. You may find it easier than trying to sort out both volume controls.

On the Enhancements tab (if you even have one) I would uncheck every option there.

There may be more tabs than what I've mentioned on your system, but due to driver and hardware differences I have no idea. If you have more tabs, it would be good to go through them.

The final tab we both should have in common is the Advanced tab. The settings I use with my own Realtek Digital Output device are to uncheck "Give exclusive mode applications priority" and also uncheck "Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device."

Above the checkboxes should be a drop down list located in the Default format section, with many 2-channel options and hopefully a multi-channel or (5.1 Surround) option, either called Dolby Digital or DTS Connect. The choices here are most likely driver specific, so what choices you'll find in your drop down list aren't guaranteed.

After everything is set, you should be able to click the Test button on either the Advanced tab or on the Supported Formats tab. The Test on the Advanced tab is 2-channel only and does not reflect any multi-channel selection, while the Test on the Supported Formats tab will use encoding, based on the specific format you have highlighted during it's test.

Provided your optical connection is in place from your computer to your receiver, and the receiver is set to the correct input, you should be able to find a usable format on the Supported Formats page. Some receivers do not support all frequency options, so you might test both 44.1 and 48.0 to be sure, if at first you hear nothing after clicking test.

Ultimately, even if you aren't getting DTS or Dolby on your receiver, you should at the very least be able to achieve 2-channel output from your optical SPDIF connection on the motherboard to your receiver. If not, even though it appears to be the correct audio device, we may have to try the other Realtek device instead. It's always possible the driver has them labelled backward.
 
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freakyfriday

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Brilliant, phase 1 complete... Optical input is now producing sound.... thank you.

My new issue is how to get true 5.1 working properly if at all possible.. All speakers are producing the same audio.. Reading the blurb that comes from Asus, I should be able to get 5.1, unless what they really mean is the same audio from all speakers... I have tried some 5.1 test files to make sure, but all sound out of all speakers at once...

The Sound manager doesn't give me any option to chose from, just stereo.. and in playback devices the same... any ideas?

If not, I'll happily call this a solution because you fixed the issue I asked about.

Thanks for all your help.
 
Well, so far so good. We've established the correct sound device to be using under Windows and it is configured now at least for basic output. As for proper multi-channel support, we can continue to work on that.

It may help to reiterate what happens in a surround or multi-channel setup.

Digital audio over SPDIF is only ever two channel. It was designed quite a long time ago, when movie theaters were still looking into multi-channel sound for themselves. Imagining we would have this kind luxury in our homes and computers was just a distant forethought for dreamers. So, for now, imagine all digital audio output solutions from a computer as stereo. Once you have gotten that far, the audio solution in your computer is for the most part, done with it's job.

How then, do we have nicer, multi-channel setups now? Well, when multi-channel became something that could be consumed outside of the theater, smart people figured out that if they encode extra information into the audio streams available over the basic 2-channel setup, they could extract or decode this information on the other end. They were still living within the limits of their 2-channel audio distribution model, but now they had a method of encoding many more audio channels into those two, simple stereo channels.

For this to work, you have to have audio that is encoded. The two most common methods I'm familiar with are Dolby and DTS. They essentially do the same thing, so whether you're stuck with one or the other is hardly reason to concern. Also, the technical specs of each, while not identical, are not different enough to make a major impact either. Let the audio snobs say otherwise (most source material that people enjoy will be of such quality, the transport mechanism is hardly any influence [besides, at which particular bit-rate do cat meme videos truly become bearable!])

There really are two scenarios most people deal with, concerning the encoding of audio. Pre-encoded or live encoding. When you watch a TV show, DVD, Blu-ray, etc., the audio you receive is of the pre-encoded type, so it has all of the multi-channel sound already in it in such a way, as soon as the pre-encoded audio is sent correctly through your 2-channel SPDIF or coaxial digital connection to your receiver, voila, it just works. It's recognized, decoded, and sent to the correctly corresponding speaker.

In the case of computer video games, however, this really doesn't work. What we want is correct, positional audio, that supports a multi-channel speaker setup, but you can't do this with pre-encoded audio. Instead, the audio is generated by the game, with it's 3D position information, and then it goes to an encoder to prepare it for the final transport over the 2-channel digital audio output. Both Dolby and DTS have live encoders, and go by the names Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect respectively. These are technologies that have to be licensed, otherwise they would likely be quite common. Because of this, instead of every game manufacturer or publisher licensing this technology, they leave it up to the consumer to instead acquire a single license, and then just apply it to all sound that is headed out of the computer. So, while your games may be generating the 3D audio, they don't encode it, so at best over digital, a game will stick you with 2-channel sound. What is needed is the encoder to act as mediator between the game and audio device in the computer, and encode the 3D positional sound for you.

That is where we're at. We need to figure out how to activate the live encoding on your system.

Back in the Properties, Sound Formats tab of your Realtek Digital Output sound device, you should test whether or not you are getting proper transport and decoding of DTS and Dolby by first clicking the DTS Audio option and clicking Test. Since this test is already encoded for you, it will help determine whether your receiver is actually decoding the signal properly. Selecting DTS Audio and clicking Test should cause your receiver's DTS light to come on, just as selecting Dolby Digital and clicking test should light the Dolby symbol on your receiver, provided it supports those formats.

If that's the case, the next thing to try would be, if you have available, DVD playback of a movie with 5.1 sound. In your DVD playback software, configure it to use SPDIF output for audio. This causes the player not to decode any audio but to instead just send the audio stream to your output, so your receiver can decode it. Playback of a movie with 5.1 audio should result in the Dolby or DTS logo on your receiver lighting up. Don't of course expect the menus or special features to be encoded. Usually only the main movie has the multi-channel encoded audio.

Hopefully you can perform a test or two and see your receiver kick into DTS or Dolby...
 

freakyfriday

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Should change your name to Legend... finally working using Dolby Digital... and for me, thats awesome... The DTS seems to have a mind of it's own though, test worked fine first time, clicked yes on the "did you hear sound popup" but didn't work the next time.... The dolby though is working great... Would you suggest leaving both DTS and Dolby Digital checked, or is one fine....?

Anyway.. Thank you. you are now a legend in my house.
 

freakyfriday

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Appreciate all your help Pink. My Panasonic does support both so I have ensured both are checked, and both are now working perfectly... I feel like abit of an idiot ove how drawn out I made this process, but am grateful you stuck with it... Cheers
 
Glad things are sorted and working. :) Nothing beats some good sound when watching movies and playing games. Makes the trouble worth while. Oh, and having a Panasonic unit myself, if you happen to have a selector button on the front labelled "DSP Sound Mode" or similar, this can force the receiver into Stereo mode instead of Surround, regardless of what the lights might be indicating. If you find your lights don't match what you're hearing, make sure the display doesn't say "Stereo" in eensie sized lettering instead of "Surround".

Here's a handy, Dolby Digital encoded test file that should work fine in Windows Media Player, if you find yourself in need to test whether your speakers are outputting correctly. :) http://www.tfm.ro/ac3/download/test_ac3.rar
 
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