New FX-8350 Vishera Build - Please comment

mister_crabby · Nov 9, 2014

Hello everyone,

Have a few hundred bucks to do an overhaul. I'd appreciate your feedback. Plan to buy the parts tomorrow and build next week or weekend.

Just later after putting the following parts list together around the 8350, a friend let me know he had an I5-3470t 2.9ghz he would give me. He doesn't know what its worth and wants me to make an offer.

So, three questions:

1. Will the Intel chip give me a reasonable gaming system vs the Vishera?
2. What should i fairly pay my friend for it if I go in that direction?
3. If i stay with the AMD, any comments on the configuration below?

Thanks!!

Crab

What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

Gaming. No work related apps.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

<$500

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

'Merica

4. IF you're buying parts OUTSIDE the US, please post a link to the vendor you'll be buying from.
We can't be expected to scour the internet on your behalf, chasing down deals in your specific country... Again, help us, help YOU.

N/A

5. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.

None Picked the FX-8350 for price/performance

6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

A mix of new and used.

NEW:

Currently in Newegg Wishlist

AMD FX-8350 Black Edition Vishera 8-Core 4.0GHz (4.2GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ 125W Desktop Processor FD8350FRHKBOX
$179.99

ASUS M5A97 LE R2.0 AM3+ AMD 970 + SB950 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
$69.99 before $10.00 Mail-in Rebate Card

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) Desktop Memory Model F3-14900CL9D-8GBXL
$82.99

Corsair Carbide Series 200R Black Steel / Plastic compact ATX Mid Tower Case $59.99

OLD

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 500gb SATA
DVD Burner: Asus DVD multi-recorder
GPU: GeForce GTX 560Ti 1gb Note: plan to replace as funds allow
Monitor: Dell 19"

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

Yes, within capabilities of stock cooler and mobo

8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using?

1920 x 1080

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?

in the next week

tiny voices · Nov 9, 2014

I would go for an i5 4460 build FOR SURE. If for whatever reason you REALLY want the 8350, you will need a better board. Get the non-LE version of that board at minimum.

mister_crabby · Nov 9, 2014

Tiny, I really appreciate the quick response!

After your kind suggestion I went back and did some more research and its quite clear you are correct.

I will re-post my new i5 configuration soon.

Thanks again!

tiny voices · Nov 9, 2014

Glad to help!

mister_crabby · Nov 9, 2014

How about this, replacing the AMD-specific components previously posted?

1x GIGABYTE GA-Z97X-SLI LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (Model:GA-Z97X-SLI)
$128.99

1x Intel Core i5-4690 Haswell Quad-Core 3.5GHz LGA 1150 84W Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4600 BX80646I54690 (Model:BX80646I54690)
$224.99

1x G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL10S-8GBXL (Model:F3-12800CL10S-8GBXL)
$76.99

$430.97
Combo Discounts: - $34.98
Combo Price: $395.99

tiny voices · Nov 10, 2014

That is a way overkill board. Get an h97 board and an i5 4460.

Also, get 2x4gb RAM, not a single stick.

mdocod · Nov 10, 2014

Mister Crabby,

The i5-3470T that your friend has is an oddball dual core low TDP part. It's comparable in performance to an i3-3220. I believe it was the only desktop i5 Ivy configured as a hyper-threaded dual core (rest are quad core without hyperthreading).

------------

For gaming, Vishera actually does not offer a very good value. Core count and clock speeds are not useful yardsticks for comparing CPUs. The best value for gaming in the price class of the FX-8350 are i5 haswell products.

------------

------------

Tiny Voices,

Since most 2x4GB kits are configured with single rank dimms, a 2x4GB kit only benefits from channel interleave, but no rank interleave, while a 1x8GB kit would benefit from rank interleave with no channel interleave.

I think you'd be surprised to discover that this is one of those six / half dozen sort of scenarios. Performance is about the same either way, UNLESS we select a very specific 2x4GB kit, one configured dual rank (hard to come by, but all ballistix kits are still configured this way).

DonkeyOatie · Nov 10, 2014

mdocod :

Mister Crabby,

The i5-3470T that your friend has is an oddball dual core low TDP part. It's comparable in performance to an i3-3220. I believe it was the only desktop i5 Ivy configured as a hyper-threaded dual core (rest are quad core without hyperthreading).

------------

For gaming, Vishera actually does not offer a very good value. Core count and clock speeds are not useful yardsticks for comparing CPUs. The best value for gaming in the price class of the FX-8350 are i5 haswell products.

------------

------------

Tiny Voices,

Since most 2x4GB kits are configured with single rank dimms, a 2x4GB kit only benefits from channel interleave, but no rank interleave, while a 1x8GB kit would benefit from rank interleave with no channel interleave.

I think you'd be surprised to discover that this is one of those six / half dozen sort of scenarios. Performance is about the same either way, UNLESS we select a very specific 2x4GB kit, one configured dual rank (hard to come by, but all ballistix kits are still configured this way).

So you are saying the the performance improvement for channel is about the same as rank? I thought rank gives about 10%, but channel gives significantly more.

mister_crabby · Nov 10, 2014

Hello, any comments on one of the following, or other?

ASUS Z87-A LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $84.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132076

MSI H97 Guard-Pro LGA 1150 Intel H97 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $69.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130782

ASRock H97 Anniversary LGA 1150 Intel H97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $72.79
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157564

mdocod · Nov 11, 2014

DonkeyOatie :

Depends on the workload...

great example of this would be as follows:

What's faster at booting an operating system?

A: 4X WD Black mechanical drives in RAID0 with a sequential throughput of up to ~800MB/s combined.
or
B: A cheap SSD that can only do ~100-200MB/s sequential (depending on compressibility of the data)

When loading an application, or booting an operating system, it is usually the non-sequential random access performance that plays the largest role in effecting performance. The 800MB/s combined sequential performance of the RAID0 stack drops to about 5-10MB/s in mixed random access simulating real world loading/booting. In fact, having all the drives stacked up in RAID0 does nearly nothing to improve effective bandwidth in these conditions because more drives does not reduce the access/seek time. The SSD performance also drops with non-sequential performance, but not by as much. Typically 10-50MB/s can be expected of the cheap SSD in these same conditions. Even though the SSD has significantly lower peak bandwidth compared to the RAID configuration, it will still load apps and boot OSs significantly faster.

When the bottleneck is access performance, peak transfer rates play very little role in effecting performance, access time dominates the outcome.

With memory access, the same sort of comparison is going on here between channel and rank interleave. Channel interleave offers the opportunity to increase peak bandwidth, but doesn't have as much effect on latency. Rank interleave effects access latency, but has less effect on peak bandwidth.

In workloads that are bandwidth bound, like an iGPU leveraging system RAM as VRAM, channel interleave provides better performance scaling. In workloads that are more heavily access (latency) bound, like compiling software, rank interleave sometimes provides better performance scaling.

DonkeyOatie · Nov 11, 2014

Thanks for that. I follow your erudite explanations of the arcane aspects of memory to further my own understanding. (Heck, it sounds like I ate a dictionary for breakfast

)

So I need to consider latency as well? I have other questions, but don't want to hijack the thread.

I'll catch up with you somewhere else.

mister_crabby · Nov 11, 2014

Hello everyone. I want to thank you for the kind input. Much appreciated.

Based on the feedback and additional research, here's what i went with:

1 x Corsair Carbide Series 200R Black Steel / Plastic compact ATX Mid Tower Case

1 x Intel Core i5-4690K Devil's Canyon Quad-Core 3.5GHz LGA 1150 Desktop Processor BX80646I54690K

1 x Refurbished: ASUS Z87-A LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

1 x G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) Desktop Memory Model F3-14900CL9D-

tiny voices · Nov 11, 2014

Well, crap. That is a Z87 board and you need a Z97 board. There is no guarantee it shipped with the newest BIOS. There is a chance it will NOT work with your CPU.

mdocod · Nov 11, 2014

Consider something like a Fatal1ty Z97X Killer, MSI Z97-GAMING 5, or Gigabyte GA-Z97X-Gaming 5.

mister_crabby · Nov 11, 2014

Tiny, it is a risk. I assessed that with these factors: according to ASus, the board supports the chip with a bios upgrade. I have an i5 that i can use to boot the system and flash the bios. The board gives me the capabilities i want at a nice discount over a 97. plus, if it ultimately doesn't work, i'll send it back and get a 97.

Part of the fun, right? (-:

tiny voices · Nov 11, 2014

Why are you buying an i5 if you already have one? Or is it in another system you would steal it from to update the BIOS?

mister_crabby · Nov 11, 2014

I have a low end i5-3470T from a corporate desktop

tiny voices · Nov 11, 2014

That CPU is NOT compatible with the new board. TOTALLY different socket.

mister_crabby · Nov 13, 2014

holy crap, you're right! Thanks!

mister_crabby · Nov 23, 2014

Thanks again for all the input! Final build:

1 x Corsair Carbide Series 200R Black Steel / Plastic compact ATX Mid Tower Case

1 x Intel Core i5-4690K Devil's Canyon Quad-Core 3.5GHz LGA 1150 Desktop Processor BX80646I54690K

1 x ASUS Z97-A LGA 1150 Intel Z97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

1 x G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) Desktop Memory Model F3-14900CL9D

tiny voices · Nov 23, 2014

looks fine to me.

New FX-8350 Vishera Build - Please comment

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