New Build Advice Please.

jukesie · Dec 5, 2014

Hi all,

New Year, New PC. That's basically what advice I need, well as far as CPU, MoBo and RAM for the moment. I've normally built AMD systems due to, what I thought, was a better control of gaming. So my first question would be, is Intel a better system to build these days? If so would the following three items work well together?

Intel Core i5 4670K 3.40GHz Socket 1150 6MB Cache

Gigabyte GA-Z97X-Gaming GT Socket 1150

Corsair 16GB DDR3 2400Mhz Vengeance

I have set out to look at no more than £200 for each component, so these do fit the bill, but I've found so many components that do and they all seem similar.

The main things I will be looking for my system to do is work with Adobe Products, World of Warcraft (low quality rendering is fine but I would like more) and most importantly I want the ability to run 4 monitors some time in the future. I was thinking using the 1 on-board GPU for 1 monitor then 3 other GPUS for the others, but the final decision depends on what you guys suggest.

I hope I've given you all the information that you need. If there's anything else you want to ask then please do.

Thank you for your time.

uplink-svk · Dec 5, 2014

Greetings,

Your CPU and RAM choice is excellent, it's much better choice than AMDs equivalents [CPU-wise]. I'd go probably for Asus VII Ranger, or Hero if possible for You. They have much much better software and stability, than GA motherboards. Or You could try Your luck with MSi M-Power series, but I don't vouch much for them, though, they offer great stability and work effortless when You manage to get a good piece.

If You want hasslefree operation, I'd go for Asus. I'd avoid GA at all costs, since their software is...well, they shouldn't even give it to their motherboards, they should simply rely on similiar 3rd party software.

I'm owner of their strongest Z97 motherboard, and at a time most expensive Z97 motherboard on the market, and hell, that was one mess. Nearly killed my 4790K, even after BiOS update couldn't work out nearly anything. Autoupdate of drivers doesn't work at all, and when it does, it downloads like 150 kbps [around 10-12 kB/s]. It's a disaster with a massive price tag.

SproutSchon · Dec 5, 2014

Intel is the way to go and you have picked a very capable CPU for your needs (I would argue in the sweet spot price/performance).
I would not spend that much money on the mobo though.
A Z97 chipset is what you want to OC your CPU properly but the mobo itself won't make any difference whatsoever performance wise.
You want reliability (pick a trusted manufacturer like Asus, ASRock, Gigabyte, MSI) and look for your needed features.

Form factor?
How many RAM slots you need and at what speed? (I would argue 2400MHz RAM is not worth the price premium too)
How many USB 2.0 / 3.0 you need (front and rear)?
How many expension slots? (do you intend to SLI/Crossfire)
If WiFi is a concern, you are mostly better off picking a cheaper mobo and a discrete wireless card.

To conclude the one you pick is super expensive because it can make 4GPUs work together.
If you want one Nvidia GPU or two AMD ones, this one would suit your needs perfectly: http://www.ebuyer.com/642653-gigabyte-ga-z97p-d3-socket-1150-hdmi-8-channel-audio-atx-motherboard-ga-z97p-d3

When you plug a discrete GPU, the integrated graphics are disable.
You should be able to reactivate them through your BIOS but I have no experience doing so.

chenw · Dec 5, 2014

I was about to suggest downgrading that Gigabyte Mobo to another lol.

Well opinions differ, I can definitely vouche for Asus Mobos being sturdy (My P8P67 is still serving me well), but I opted for Z97X-UD5H for my build this time, figured it was about time I tried another company.

Asus and Gigabyte are the two generally considered to be reliable in Taiwan (the home base of Asus, Gigabyte, MSI and ASRock), we place Gigabyte above MSI and ASRock, and place the latter at the bottom (some retails outright refuse to stock Asrock due to the number of issues they had, and those who do don't recommend it highly either).

MSI is getting better, they just haven't managed to wipe their bad QC past yet.

I'll share my experience tomorrow, the rig should be up and running in 24hours.

Just to add something you might not already know, 4670k is actually incapable of supporting anything more than 2 GPUs from its PCI-E lanes on its own (it only supplies 16, and SLI requires at least x8 on each card), so GT puts in a PLX chip (basically a lane switch) to basically make the PCI slots 'share' the lanes rather than dedicate a number of them to each slot, but AFAIK they don't work as well as 'real' PCI lanes.

If you are on a budget, the cheapest chip that support the required lanes inherently is 4820k from IB-E, but it's an aging chip, and the chipset even older still. 5820k doesn't have the required lanes either, so you have to go 5930k (much more expensive) for this gen if you want the newest, but... DDR4 isn't cheap either.

uplink-svk · Dec 5, 2014

chenw - just don't expect some great software from the GA and You will probably be fine. Watch out for voltages. 4670k should run at 1-1,10 vcore, if Your motherboard finds it great to fry it with 1,3-1,45 vcore, You need to update the BiOS, after it it still might run a little high, like 1,2-1,25 vcore, in that case it's time to return the motherboard. Just saying...good luck and Godspeed!

jukesie · Dec 5, 2014

Hi guys, and first may I say thank you for all your great advice. It's hard to keep up with all the jargon and some does leave me confused but I'm getting there.

Ok, so if I stick with the processor I chose and go with the suggestion;

Gigabyte GA-Z97P-D3

or

Asus Z97-PRO

Then basically just amend my 2400 ram to the 1600 version ? would that be more fitting?

I do have a silly question to ask as an addition. It seems obvious but I wanted to check. When a MoBo states that you can "Connect up to three independent monitors at once" that means that you can connect 3 via their on board HDMI, VGA etc. connections, right? Or is it saying you can only have a max of 3 regardless of GPUs or OnBoard etc.

uplink-svk · Dec 5, 2014

If You're willing to go pro, You can as well get Ranger, or Hero, they're about the same price level, hm?

jukesie · Dec 5, 2014

So after some deliberation and thought comparing some parts I've settled on this configuration.

Asus Maximus VII Hero

Intel Core i5 4670K 3.40GHz Socket 1150 6MB Cache

Corsair 16Gb 1600mhz Vengeance

2x GPU, probably something around the GTX 760 range £150 each(ish)
1x ATI R9 270 - 280 something like that. But I can add that later.

That should give me a nice enough setup I think.

Any thoughts?

jukesie · Dec 8, 2014

Any thoughts if this is a good final solution please?

uplink-svk · Dec 8, 2014

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121839

This is an interesting piece of hardware. Worked with one today, I'm not up for these fancy multi-gpu grahics card, though, I like them more than SLi, and this one in particular is badass.

jukesie · Dec 9, 2014

This building of PC lark is so damn annoying. One second you decide on a setup then you learn something that dissuades you and gets you confused again.

That is a lovely looking card. After further research I can see how buying one high-end card like that would be better than the CFX or SLI I was thinking about. The power consumption alone is enough to turn me off it.

So a Dual GPU card would be better for me. Then perhaps just a smaller low-end card (or two) to run other monitors off. That should do the job.

chenw · Dec 9, 2014

Be warned that a Dual GPU card is still two GPU's SLI'ed or Xfired, just soldered together onto the same PCB, and allows you to SLI/Xfire without needing your mobo to natively support it.

Xfire/SLI is a double edged sword, but my own conclusion is that SLI/Xfire is only worth it for the top 2~3 single GPU cards from each camp, anything lower than that you start getting less performance gains over a more powerful single GPU.

About the spec problem: been there, done that, changed my spec no less than a dozen times and chewed through a pack of panadol

jukesie · Dec 9, 2014

Thank you for that!

I just assumed that a dual card would be a stronger card outside of the SLI/CFX setup. But now thinking about it, what you say makes sense.

So I need to find a strong card that ISN'T dual gpu. However, that is easier said than done. All the high end cards seem to be dual these days.

jukesie · Dec 12, 2014

Stupid question, DUAL DVI, like in this card here, doesn't mean two boards in one? It just means a stronger card correct?

GIGABYTE GTX 980

I ask because I've been skipping any card with "Dual" in the title because I thought it meant a dual card and thus a SLI issue.

uplink-svk · Dec 12, 2014

jukesie - it means it has two "dvi" ports [digital video interface], one is most likely "i" and one "d", whereas one is digital and one digital + analog, it howerever doesn't mean "dual gpu" on one pcb [printed circuit board]. That would be GTX 990, which isn't out yet.

GTX 980 has only one GPU, no SLi in this case.

Btw. GTX 980 is a very bad card what about ratio of performance/price, avoid that one, or wait till february, for release of GTX 980 Ti, which will lover prices of GTX 980/970.

jukesie · Dec 12, 2014

Ok, great, so I was correct about that first part, i'm learning finally lol.

So the GTX 980 is over priced at the moment, would you consider the GTX 750 Ti or better yet the GTX 780 Ti a good choice then? I was thinking of using the 750 as a secondary card anyway.

uplink-svk · Dec 13, 2014

jukesie - the best shot for the buck on the market is GTX 970 at this moment, but with upcoming AMD R9 3xx series, it's gonna be a hard question. Prices will change for sure, on both sides, and from the first benchmarks, R9 something is like 20% faster than GTX 980, which, if is true, will be a huge trouble for nvidia, and they'll have to do something either about their prices, or, get the GTX 980 Ti on the market asap, and give her some competitive price, and also put down prices of GTX 970/980 themselves.

jukesie · Dec 13, 2014

Ok thank you.

So through my workings out this is what I think I'm going to go for, just for the moment. Then, as noted below, i'll upgrade the GPU and use the two I buy as secondary/tertiary cards.

i5 4670K 3.4

ASUS VII Hero Z97

Corsair 16Gb Vengeance Pro

GTX970 Windforce 3x - Upgraded in new year with R9 or the GTX980 Ti

GTX750 Ti

Cooler Master HAF 912

Cooler Master 1200W PSU

I hope this meets with your approval, I'm looking forward to putting my new rig together

uplink-svk · Dec 13, 2014

What You chose is great! Just don't forget some solid cooler for CPU [since You like CM, get CM Evo], and if You don't plan 3 way SLi, or CrossFire, just get some HX 750 Watt PSU, 1200Watts is severe overkill for single/dual graphics card solution. Btw. Btw. why did You get the GTX 750 Ti and GTX 970 at once? They won't work well together...at all to be honest.

jukesie · Dec 13, 2014

The GTX970 recommends 600W system power. With the 980 or equivalent added in the future that would put the system around 750W with an additional card (3 in total) that would make it around 800W. So based on the prices and to be on the side, I chose the 1200W. So would you recommend the 1000W?

I wasn't going to run 2 or 3 SLI or Crossfire. I really don't need it, even for multi-monitor gaming.

I chose those 2 cards because they seemed the best for the price (as you recommended) and the best performance reviews.

Do Nvidia cards not work well together? As with the SLI issue, do the cards have to be in the same series? Should I get 2 ATI cards instead?

I was basically looking for 1 good card for the price with the intension of upgrading in the new year (as per your advice) then one lesser card to run a third monitor.

uplink-svk · Dec 13, 2014

When You combine the cards, You combine the same chip/class, never 970 with 980, or R9 260 with 280x, etc. so if You take GTX 970 now, You should get another 970 in the future for SLi, if You get 980, another 980, etc. 850W PSU is fair enough to power up 2 way SLi/CF, 1000W PSU for 3 way SLi/CF.

jukesie · Dec 13, 2014

I'm not using SLI or CF, I know that they have to have the same card (SLI) or same chip/series (AMD) but I wasn't looking for that.

I presume that is what you meant because according to what I can find both the 970 and 980 have the same GM204 range of chip which are both maxwell based. Surely that would make them perfectly compatible?

uplink-svk · Dec 14, 2014

jukesie - working on one motherboard, yes, Your reason for having two unidentical classes of graphics card in one system stays mystery though. One graphics card can run up to 4 LCD panels, and since You're not planning on 6 way surround, which is probably not even possible on nvidia cards, I see no reason for multiple graphics cards. GTX 970 can run up to 4 monitors at the same time [not for gaming, for work], Your "iGPU" and two dedicated graphics cards solutions seems a bit off to me.

Even in professional layer there's not much use for let's say GTX 970 and 980, or 750 Ti and 980, etc. Well, theoretically there is, but really, You should get either one strong [GTX 970/980] and pair her up with the same one, or stay with single one. Your solution will work, but won't benefit You at all.

jukesie · Dec 14, 2014

Ah see that was again part of what I'm learning.

I was under the impression that having one GPU for one monitor meant that it was working 100% for what was on that monitor. Then having a second card for a second monitor meant that GPU could work 100% for that monitor.

But having 1 GPU for 2 monitors meant it would work 50% for each monitor.

That's not the best explanation, but I hope you understand what I mean.

In my head I was thinking that if I had a strong GPU (980 etc.) I could run the monitor I would game from. Then my other monitors I could run from the other cards, that didn't need that much power.

uplink-svk · Dec 14, 2014

jukesie - You can't game and do something else at the same time, not really. And powering out the picture is really a fraction of Your graphics card capabilities. Powering on second/third/fourth LCD does heat up Your GPU, but it doesn't load Your graphics card so You'd need another. And if You want to play games on 3 LCD panels, You should go after GTX 970 SLi, or get GTX 980, which is overpriced, and get another one later. Anyway, even single GTX 970 can run many games at full HD at three LCD panels, GTX 980 most of them, even in 2K, but eventually You'll find bottleneck of both of them. In general it's great to wait till new year now, if You don't want to, get GTX 970, it's like Apple product, it's always gonna be easy to sell for a good price, and it's gonna be strong enough for months to come.

New Build Advice Please.

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