64 GBs Kingston HyperX savage (2 x 32 Gbs kit) 2400 Mhz / 2133 Mhz unstable

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Cybertox

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Hello there Ladies and Gentleman, I seek your help. I just recently acquired two kits of Kingston HyperX Savage 32 GBs, meaning in total I have 64 GBs of Random Access Memory. My problem is that high frequency settings are not working. I am forced to run the RAM at 1600 MHz as the XMP profiles either Number 1 (2400 MHz) or Number 2(2133 MHz) are unstable and dont work correctly as with those XMP settings enabled the computer sometimes fails to boot, doesnt detect the actual amount of RAM or just keeps restarting. I did not use any manual overclocking settings, I just set XMP profiles and neither of the two work unfortunately enough. My CPU runs stock, so far the only way to run the RAM is at 1600 MHz but I would like it to run at 2400 MHz hence why I bought specifically this type of models. Below you will find all the necessary details and computer specifications. Any input and help is greatly appreciated. Also all of my components are compatible with this kind of RAM, my motherboard supports 2400 MHz RAM frequency.

P9X79 (BIOS Version 4801), i7 4930K (stock), 64 GBs Kingston HyperX Savage 2400 MHz (8 x 8), detailed specifications here. R9 290X (stock), PSU Coolermaster Silent Pro M2 (1000 watt). 2x WD Black Caviar 7200 RPM HDDs.

Here are my BIOS settings when I try to run 2400 MHz but it ends up being unstable (I just set to XMP Number 1, not Manual overclocking).

Ai Tweaker

Ai Overclock Tuner = XMP
XMP DDR-3-2401 11-13-14-32-2N-1.65V-1.35V = Profile #1
BCLK Frequency = 100.000
CPU Strap = Auto
CLOCKGen Full Reset = Enabled
CPU Core Ratio = Sync All Cores
Internal PLL Overvoltage = Auto
DRAM Frequency = DDR3-2400MHz
EPU Power Saving Mode = Disabled
Extreme Over-Voltage = Disabled
CPU VCORE Voltage = Offset Mode
Offset Mode Sign = +
CPU VCORE Offset Voltage = Auto
CPU VCCSA Voltage = Manual Mode
CPU VCCS Manual Voltage = 1.350
DRAM Voltage(CHA, CHB) = 1650
DRAM Voltage(CHA, CHD) = 1650
CPU PLL Voltage = Auto
VTTCPU Voltage = Auto

I would assume in such a case I would require to manually set voltages for the memory controller and the RAM itself, due to that I am seeking your help as I dont have much experiences with manual voltage settings and their optimization.

 
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Cybertox

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First and foremost thanks for replying. So if I understood right you are suggesting me to make sure that the DRAM voltage is at 1.65 Volt and that I should set VCCSA to 1.25. However all of this should be applied to the XMP Number 1 profile and only the DRAM Voltage and the VCCSA should be set to manual and corrected while everything else should be kept the way it was set by the XMP. Is that right?
 
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Cybertox

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Not sure whether you have noticed that but the XMP #1 @2400 MHz already uses 1.65V DRAM and has the following VCCSA and VCCS settings.

CPU VCORE Offset Voltage = Auto
CPU VCCSA Voltage = Manual Mode
CPU VCCS Manual Voltage = 1.350

Like you can see it is already running at 1.350. How would lower VCCSA voltage improve stability? Or is the stated VCSSA Voltage one thing and the displayed VCCS Manual Voltage another? Could you please clarify that to me?

I also heard that high VCCSA Voltages may degrade CPUs, is that true and should I be aware of that?
 
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Tradesman1

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May be the two sets just don't want to play (happens often) that's why the manufacturers offer such a wide variety of sets. The XMP is programmed by the packaged set - sometimes a well programmed BIOS can make adjustments. 1.25 is normally the highest I suggest for VCCSA. The above is the approach I start with when folks have two sets, if it doesn't work then generally have to attempt to set the primary and secondary DRAM timings manually (sometimes into the tertiary timings) to try and get them to play (and sometimes they simply won't play (which is why I recommend getting full amount in a single package, the two pack route generally cost a little less, but if they don't play it can actually end up costing more))
 
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Cybertox

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The two 32 GBs kits were ordered in conjunction with each other so there shouldnt be a problem in that regard. Could you please answer my questions I asked previously about VCCSA and VCCS? In what way are they related as it true that the XMP profile sets the VCCSA to 1.350 V? How could lower voltage increase stability?

Thank you very much for assisting me with my problem, greatly appreciated.

 
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Pinhedd

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XMP has absolutely nothing to do with the IMC or SA supply voltage, it configures only the DRAM frequency, DRAM timings, and DRAM supply voltage. Any changes to the rest of the system are outside of its purview.
The 1.35 volts on the IMC is set by the Asus firmware automatically in response to the enabling of the XMP profile, not by the XMP profile itself. Asus' automatic configuration is often far, far too aggressive and can lead to instability. On my motherboard (Rampage IV Extreme) enabling the DDR3-2133 XMP profile configures both the IMC and SA at 1.4 volts which is at or near the recommended maximum. However, my PC runs stable with the IMC at 1.2 volts and the SA at 1.15 volts, so it gave the IMC an extra 0.2 volts and the SA an extra 0.25 volts for no clear reason.

What I recommend from my X79 experience:

Disable all CPU overclocking, use just the stock settings until the DRAM is stable.

CPU PLL Voltage: 1.9 volts (up 0.1 volts from the 1.8 volt default)

VTTCPU Voltage (this is the IMC and a few other things): 1.2 volts to 1.25 volts, work it down later but I doubt that it will be stable below 1.2 volts

CPU VCore: 1.25 volts. This should be slightly elevated compared to the typical VID for most Ivybridge-E chips, work it down later

CPU VCCSA: 1.2 volts. Again, slightly elevated, but not too much so, work it down later

DRAM Supply Voltage: 1.675 volts, slightly above the 1.65 volt marketed value for those DIMMs but keep in mind that the marketed value is for a single dual-rank DIMM. Installing additional DIMMs degrades DRAM signal quality.
 
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Cybertox

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Thank you very much for this very insightful post, this is exactly the kind of explanation I needed. However before I begin tweaking the voltages I have a few more questions. As I mentioned before my CPU runs stock, so I wont need to disable all CPU overclocking. Now after setting the voltages and adjusting them by decreasing the set amounts slightly do I have to do that individually for each specification? For example I have set all the voltages as you recommended and then as you said I have to tweak each one by decreasing it by a small amount and seeing whether it is stable but should I do that with each one individually or in conjunction with other voltages as well? Also could you please specify a little bit more about the DRAM Supply Voltage and what you exactly meant by the degrading DRAM signal quality?

Thank you very much for your post and for dedicating time to troubleshoot my issue.

 
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Pinhedd

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Hi, you should do it with each one individually. If you don't feel like spending too much time doing that and want an appreciably safety margin (to prevent those one in a million occurrences) then you should use the values that I recommended and leave them. The VID that Intel programs their microprocessors with at the factory includes an appreciable margin to ensure stability throughout the warranty period and hopefully for many years after that.

As for the DRAM, the signal quality degrades as a consequence of how the chips are arranged on each memory channel. I don't really want to deliver an EE lecture on transmission lines, signal termination, and drive strength right now (unless you're into that kind of thing), but it's sufficient to say that there's an inverse relationship between the number of installed DRAM ranks and the stability of the bus at a particular data rate. Installing more ranks, increasing the data rate, or both, may require taking certain measures to improve the signal quality.
 
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Cybertox

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Alright, so according to your suggestions I should be running the following voltages. Could you please confirm that these are the voltages I should be setting? I just want to be sure before beginning.

Ai Overclock Tuner = XMP
XMP DDR-3-2401 11-13-14-32-2N-1.65V-1.35V = Profile #1
BCLK Frequency = 100.000
CPU Strap = Auto
CLOCKGen Full Reset = Enabled
CPU Core Ratio = Sync All Cores
Internal PLL Overvoltage = Auto
DRAM Frequency = DDR3-2400MHz
EPU Power Saving Mode = Disabled
Extreme Over-Voltage = Disabled
CPU VCORE Voltage = 1.250
Offset Mode Sign = +
CPU VCORE Offset Voltage = Auto
CPU VCCSA Voltage = Manual Mode (1.2)
CPU VCCS Manual Voltage = 1.2
DRAM Voltage(CHA, CHB) = 1675
DRAM Voltage(CHA, CHD) = 1675
CPU PLL Voltage = 1.9
VTTCPU Voltage = 1.250 / 1.200

I am a bit worried running 1675 as DRAM Voltage and increasing the CPU VCORE to 1.25, preferably I would run both stock or would that cause instability again?

Concerning the DRAM signal quality I think I know what you mean. Previously when in some rare occasions my computer would boot with XMP, it would not detect and show 64 GBs in the Task Manager but lower values such as 48. This only happened when running high frequency XMPs (2133, 2400). When running JEDEC it always shows 64 GBs (63.9) and runs stable.

Once again, thanks for keeping up with me. Would be great if I would manage to run 2400 MHz stable with 64 GBs of RAM. I think it should be achievable with a 4930K and without the need to alter the timings and skewing clocks.
 
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Pinhedd

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Yeah those values are correct. They should all be slightly higher than default, but not substantially so. You can lower them independently later on, but first you need to find a stable reference point.
 
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Cybertox

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Unfortunately it didn't work. With VTTCPU Voltage at 1.200 and the rest as we discussed, a BSOD showed up saying MEMORY_MANAGEMENT. With VTTCPU Voltage at 1.250 (showed in red in bios), a BSOD occurred as well but I couldn't read it as the text was messed up. Any ideas on how to proceed further?
 
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Pinhedd

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Keep playing around with it, but you may just be SOL. 64GiB at DDR3-2400 is almost a pipe dream to begin with. It took me a while to get 32GiB of DDR3-2133 stable.
 
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Cybertox

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You would advise setting the VTTCPU Voltage to an amount ranging from 1.200 to 1.250? Or should I adjust other voltages as well?
 
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