New CPU i7 4790k reaching 100°c

Hello... YES... as Quick "Simple test" take a cover off your case... and re-check temps.
1) Make sure your CPU Fan plugged into the CPU header on the MB.
2) Check your CPU fan settings in your BIO's
3) Check Cooler Mounting Screws, Tighter?
4) Re-Applly Thermal grease to your CPU.

I see two options:

1) Fan not spinning, or

2) Heatsink not properly mounted thus a GAP between the CPU and the heatsink.

Other:
a) My recommendations for a cooler are the Noctua NH-U12S or NH-U14S.
I am using same CPU mine Idle is at 36 to 40 and underload it reaches max 60 to 65

Yes, that's bad - either you are overclocking too much for your heatsink, or your heatsink is not properly secured. Either way - if its getting to 100c in a game its overheating very bad. If overclocking then you should keep it ~80ish or less during stress tests - and keep in mind that games run a lot cooler than a stress test. But don't run it any longer like that.

This sounds like a defective or incorrectly installed CPU cooler. Possible reasons include:

1) cooler not tight against CPU ( a gap)

2) air cooler fan not on

3) liquid cooler pump fail, or liquid too low

Hmm...

40degC isn't too far off for idle so it's unlikely to be a pump issue or a gap between the cooler and CPU. It sounds more like a fan not spinning... or software that's reporting incorrectly.

(I use "core temp" to report)

Guys,

Yet another processor temperature thread where it hasn't occurred to anyone to offer, or ask, about ambient temperature?

If the OP is in the Southern Hemisphere not far from the Equator, then it's Summer, and it's really hot. Maybe he's running his rig without A/C ... maybe with the windows wide open at nearly 40C ambient.

Ambient should be your first question. Intel's Thermal specifications are based on 22C Standard Ambient. How do you know where to start from without first asking about ambient?

We get threads here from all over the world ... in both Hemispheres ... Summer and Winter ... A/C or very little heat ... or windows wide open. You can't assume ambient.

It can make a huge difference in how we approach troubleshooting temperature problems ... or maybe the OP's environment is already at a perfect 22C Standard Ambient, in which case it's not an issue.

We still need to know one way or the other. Ambient must be established right up front with full system specs. It doesn't get any more basic than this.

Nevertheless, you all need to open up your thermal awareness and take it upon yourselves to ask. You can't possibly offer an informed or accurate opinion concerning processor temperatures without first knowing ambient temperature.

There are far too many variables involved in the topic of processor temperatures to ignore ambient. Please ... do us all a favor and remember that if the OP doesn't offer, then ask.

Thanks,

CT

Hello... All my Physics training and Equations for the melting Point of, Organic and Non Organic materials, Show that the Only thing that affects it... is Pressure.
Are you suggesting that Silicon melts at a different temperature at the North pole than the Equator? Due to the Ambient? Because I can't find that in the Equations... Or Data sets.

Regardless of your location or Ambient temperature... His CPU is 40C idle and climbing to 100C, and his Case and CPU, can be considered a CLOSED Enviroment OR System, Thus to fully understand the Thermal Dynamics of the System, I first ask to Open the case and Re-take temperature Data.

The Ambient Air Temperature AND Humidity comes into play if you are trying to use it as a Method to Cool or Heat Something with it... and there are Static and NON-Static mechanisms that are used to help AIR to Do this... 1) Such as Adding more Pressure, such as Variable Speed fans to the system. 2) increasing the mass, or AIR surface area of your CPU cooler. 3) Using materials of higher Thermal conductivity, in the system.

But you must KNOW this... Air is not good at COOLING or Heating... AIR has a Very Low and BAD Thermal Conductivity... http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html
And THUS... Ambient temperature becomes MUTE, unless the the whole System is dependent Only, and Only... On the elemental composition of the AIR, for the Heating or Cooling.

We must assume here that the Pressure and Ambient of his/her AIR is typical, and is able to support life , as we know it... OR Do we need to ASK if their CPU is in the Coldness or vacuum of Space? OR Miles below the surface of the Earth? So we can use the proper Equations to account for the Melting Point of their CPU due to Pressure?

ironsound,

Thank you for your response.

My post was not directed at you personally. However, the nature of your language suggests that you took offense, which was not my intent.

The questions you posted in this thread were good questions.

Nevertheless, the topic of Intel processor temperatures has been my area of expertise here at Tom's since 2007. I've invested over 2,800 hours of research and hand-on testing. I am the author of the Intel Temperature Guide: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html

You can also Google it.

I am aware of these undeniable facts:

(1) Personal computers are air cooled.
(2) Higher ambient temperature means higher processor temperature.
(3) Ambient is a critical variable that must always be taken into account.

Respectfully,

CT

Hello... No offence felt at all... it was a interesting thought provocative Subject I needed to investigate farther... And I took a look at the Math and Terms involved.

( 1 ) I believe the CPU is a Closed system and is not Air Cooled... How much surface area Of the CPU Silicon is actually in contact with Air?
The second closed system here is the Case... And due to the Poor thermal conductivity of Air, and depending on the surface area, How effective is it, in affecting the CPU Silicon junction temperatures? Remember we are talking about a typical Human, in the Room, Operating temperature range here.

( 2 ) I agree here, but you must define the ambient material... I feel, as stated above, that AIR is a Poor conductor of heat, And also influences just a small surface area... thus other Thermal forces, materials, and devices, having a higher Thermal Conductivity, could be the effect you are seeing.

( 3 ) I worked for many years with UnderWriters and CSA Electrical testing standards... and Yes we had a Room with controlled ambient Temperature AND Humidity... And basically you subtract the ambient temperature from your measured... Giving you temperature Rise. But... if you were to take those same Electrical Parts into, lets say a small/medium Box... the ambient outside the Box is the same... but the temperature Rise of the Test device, would be "an unacceptable result."
Enginnering Solution here is not to make a Bigger BOX or lower the Room temperature... But to change the internal and external materials of the Device, For better thermal Conductivity and Electrical resistance. Ambient temperature we can control, But this is a not a viable solution for our Product Design and our Customers.

In a Static System, Yes 1C Air Rise should reflect back to The device being tested, but how long will this take? before equilibrium occurs...
Currently the largest producer of Heat in your case is the GPU... and there is NO static condition with these Pixel crunching beasts... nor the CPU. And thus WE suggest Solutions that Keep the Ambient temperature, outside of the case, as an un-important Factor or Option for the OP to change... " Hey buddy... turn your Air Conditioner ON if ya wanna run that game!"

What comes up as an interest to me is the effects of pressure on the materials and the CPU, Do you have the de-rating curves for Sea level vs Mountian atmospheres? maybe this needs to be address too?

In the life there is efficiency and waste in here you see they ways of cooling PC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_cooling

each way have advantages and disadvantages and the main issue is how much you willing to spend on cooling something? In here you see en expert that managed to eliminate 423 watts of heat load:

http://giatrakis.wix.com/john-giatrakis

using 4 Nf-P12 and a NH-D14 i found that the cuts in the wings are making the air to move much faster as you see here:

http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=nine_blade_design&lng=en

They also operate in very low energy needs 1,08 W 0,09 A and that makes them the best deal. they told you if you live in south pole maybe you need less than 4 to make it work so i guess CompuTronix is right.

*Back to fixing the problem...

YOU MAY WANT TO PRINT THIS FOR REFERENCE.

(First of all, the AMBIENT temp isn't really needed since we already know that IDLE temp is 40degC. Knowing if it's 20degC instead of say 25degC doesn't help much when Tjmax is 105degC.)

You don't state if you manually OVERCLOCKED the CPU and if so what settings you used (especially Voltage). Your TEMP is too high Some tips:

1) If overclocked, set everything back to DEFAULT (just use the appropriate F-Key and reboot back into the BIOS). Then,

2) Click "XMP" to optimize the memory profile (may affect CPU timings slightly)

3) VERIFY the DDR3 frequency looks correct and the CPU Turbo is appropriate (4.4GHz I believe)

4) Check temp

Other:
a) I suggest the NH-U12S simply to reduce fan noise (or the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO which sits between stock and Noctua for noise but only $30 to $35)
*Make sure FAN CONTROL is properly setup with the motherboard software (i.e. roughly 50% to 40degC then ramp up. choose for optimal noise/cooling)
b) update your BIOS if newer exists (change BIOS settings back if needed)
c) use at least one front and one top/rear case exhaust fan. (No need to be loud if 3-speed use low setting. If variable use motherboard fan control)
d) use MEMTEST for a full pass www.memtest.org (may need to change BIOS boot order to DVD/USB first before SSD/HDD as appropriate)

*Resetting Factory Defaults or updating the BIOS will use BIOS defaults which can include choosing a non-OS drive. If you get a "disk" failure of some type after a BIOS change then choose the proper SSD/HDD as the first one. I have my DVD burner as the first boot device, followed by an SSD for Windows. If a bootable CD/DVD is inserted like Memtest I can boot to that. If factory defaults load the BIOS chooses the wrong SSD though so I have to fix that.

e) The Tjmax is about 105degC meaning that's roughly when the CPU throttles down to protect itself (losing performance.). Prime95 or similar stress apps stress more than even video editors so in real life you'd be a lower temp.
f) The program CPU-Z should show your CPU changing voltage and frequency in idle/light usage. This indicates the Intel power savings features are working.

Again, this CPU can run at Turbo 4.4GHz as the default so use AUTO to keep things optimized.

SUMMARY:
- recommended settings (XMP, AUTO.. 4.4GHz Turbo)
- CM EVO, or Noctua for lower fan noise?
- Memtest etc.

Recommended coolers:

1) Noctua NH-U12S ($62): http://pcpartpicker.com/part/noctua-cpu-cooler-nhu12s
I have mine set to about 300RPM (lowest; 20%) in idle using the motherboard fan control then ramp up at 45degC. It's silent in idle and very quiet with full load (tested as only fan running).

I even played games with the FAN UNPLUGGED and stayed below 100degC!!

2) CM.. EVO ($27 with rebate?): http://pcpartpicker.com/part/cooler-master-cpu-cooler-rr212e20pkr2
Fairly quiet (with fan control optimized) but not as quiet as the Noctua.

*BOTH are a big improvement over the stock for cooling and fan noise.

INSTALLING:
1) Quick answer:
I prefer to use the "pea-sized" (4 to 5mm diameter) amount and spread the paste simply by mounting the cooler. I used this for the Noctua NH-U12S several times and temperatures of ALL the CPU cores were good.

2) More info if needed: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-heat-sink-heat-spreader,3600-6.html

photonboy,

YOU MAY WANT TO PRINT THIS FOR REFERENCE.



Sir, with all due respect:

DO NOT EVER SUGGEST TO OUR READERS THAT AMBIENT ISN'T NEEDED!

The reasons why ambient temperature is vital information were already made clear earlier in this thread. Your statement undermines our efforts here at Tom's, is conflicting, counterproductive, and confusing to our readers.

This information is not correct.

TjMax 105C is Intel's specification for 3rd Generation Ivy Bridge processors.
TjMax 100C is Intel's specification for 4th Generation Haswell / Devil's Canyon processors.

As you can see below from this Tom's Sticky: Intel Temperature Guide - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html (Clearly you could benefit from reading it).

" ... Section 7 - Relative Temperatures

The relationships between Ambient temperature, CPU temperatures, Core temperatures and Throttle temperatures are shown below for several popular Quad Core processors. All values are based on Intel documentation.

-> Core i

1st Generation 45 Nanometer: i7 920 D0 (TDP 130W / Idle 12W)

Standard Ambient = 22C
Tcase (CPU temp) = 67C
CPU / Core offset + 5C
Tjunction (Core temp) = 72C
Tj Max (Throttle temp) = 100C

2nd Generation 32 Nanometer: 2500K / 2600K (TDP 95W / Idle 8W)

Standard Ambient = 22C
Tcase (CPU temp) = 72C
CPU / Core offset + 5C
Tjunction (Core temp) = 77C
Tj Max (Throttle temp) = 98C

3rd Generation 22 Nanometer: 3570K / 3770K (TDP 77W / Idle 4W)

Standard Ambient = 22C
Tcase (CPU temp) = 67C
CPU / Core offset + 5C
Tjunction (Core temp) = 72C
Tj Max (Throttle temp) = 105C

4th Generation 22 Nanometer: 4670K / 4770K (TDP 84W / Idle 2W)
4th Generation 22 Nanometer: 4690K (TDP 88W / Idle 2W)

Standard Ambient = 22C
Tcase (CPU temp) = 72C
CPU / Core offset + 5C
Tjunction (Core temp) = 77C
Tj Max (Throttle temp) = 100C

4th Generation 22 Nanometer: 4790K (TDP 88W / Idle 2W)

Standard Ambient = 22C
Tcase (CPU temp) = 74C
CPU / Core offset + 5C
Tjunction (Core temp) = 79C
Tj Max (Throttle temp) = 100C

The Core temperatures above show that mid 70's are safe.

At 22C Standard Ambient, here's the typical operating range for Core temperature:

80C Hot
70C Warm (Heavy Load)
60C Norm
50C Norm (Medium Load)
40C Norm
30C Cool (Idle)


photonboy,

In all fairness, the remainder of your observations and suggestions are very good, which include much thought and insight in the details. Many of our Forum Members offer only one or two lines to help the OP, which is typically disappointing.

Your efforts are appreciated.

CT

find somebody with an air compressor with a blower attachment...clean your pc out, but hold the fan blades or you'll burn out the fans with the highspeed airflow from the blower attachment. then replace paste with arctic nano diamond 7(imo it just works better than most pastes), it's a thick paste tho but i have yet to see it dry out after 2 yrs in a row on an i7 3930k running at 4.2ghz(xmp ram auto-oc'ing the cpu). i put a water cooler(corsair h100) on the cpu to help improve cooling and a way bigger case fan to keep everything chilled. i never got over 40c on it over the entire time i used it. i cleaned my air filters for the unit monthly, and i cleaned the whole pc every 6 months(start of spring, and start of fall).
this is the case and fan listed here on the forums - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2444255/find-big-case-fan-lowes-bigger.html

oh and i used tape to close off any areas i didn't want the air to flow to, but i kept the following for open exhaust -
pwr supply, i/o plate, radiator, video card(both sides of vid card and vid area are open for air exhaust), hds/ssds, underside of motherboard near cpu area.

( 1 ) I believe the CPU is a Closed system and is not Air Cooled... How much surface area Of the CPU Silicon is actually in contact with Air?
The second closed system here is the Case... And due to the Poor thermal conductivity of Air, and depending on the surface area, How effective is it, in affecting the CPU Silicon junction temperatures? Remember we are talking about a typical Human, in the Room, Operating temperature range here.

Click to expand...

What you believe is irrelevant because the facts are the entire perimeter of the silicon die is in contact with air under the CPUs heat spreader, the sealant holding the heat spreader to the CPUs substrate does not completely seal, there is an air gap left in place.

The air gap under the heat spreader is a built in pressure equalization and guess what's in it AIR!

When Computronix said "(1) Personal computers are air cooled." that you addressed with your ( 1 ), he was 100% correct, personal computers are air cooled!

Whether the CPU itself is cooled by an Air Cooler or Water Cooled they are still air dependent for the actual heat transfer out of the entire system!

And ambient does make a difference!

Your second closed system is the case comment is also incorrect, I know of zero cases that are closed sealed systems, and there's zero reason to argue that with you, as your sealed CPU comment is totally wrong, as is this second statement as well!

Your ( 2 ) and ( 3 ), come across as the same useless dribble you started with, learn what you're talking about first before you spew it here, and come across as trying to impress yourself!

If you truly want to help someone with their cooling problems read this and learn what you're talking about!

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2196038/air-cooling-water-cooling-things.html

Apparently the OP had already solved his problem, at least that's how I read it!

Is it normal for a factory heat sink?

YES!

If you want lower temperatures get a better than stock heat sink cooler, or live with what you have.

It really shouldn't be a mystery that the i7-4790K is on the hot side even at stock, as it is actually an overclocked CPU out of the Intel factory door that's why many that do overclock it, are heat limited, as some of the overclocking head room is already used.

Look at the out of the door clock the non K i7-4790 which is 3.6ghz vs the 4ghz of the i7-4790K, it is overclocked out of the door, and stock overclocked equals more heat.

So for longevity sake if I were you I would consider getting an after market air cooler, which is much better than the stock air cooler and lower the stock temperatures, but that is totally up to you, and you don't actually have to.

My 2 cents! Ryan

Ok, I'll just throw this out there since CompuTronix decided to chastise people who are trying to help the OP. The OP originally stated that his idle CPU temp is 40c. That means that the ambient air temp is within a typical human comfort zone. A conventionally-cooled CPU that is idling will be warmer than the ambient air that is cooling it. Therefore he is not trying to game inside a sauna or steam-room since he reported an idle temp of 40c. He is OBVIOUSLY (this means we don't have to ask him about ambient) in a typical environment.

Further - I believe that what Ironsounds was saying was that ambient air temp is not the only important thing in an air-cooling setup. Surface-area of the heatsink, material of the heatsink, humidity, air pressure, the velocity of the air being moved, and YES the ambient temp of the air - all of these come into play. I do not see each of those factors listed in the "Intel Temperature Guide" - but I count 42 instances of the word ambient. Regardless, the OP proved that his ambient air temp is relatively normal by giving us his idle temp. So we focused on the very thing that is almost certainly his problem - The CPU cooler.

How many times do YOU come on Tom's and find a post where the OP is reporting a "new" cpu with temps at Tjmax? I see these almost daily. The VAST majority of the time its because they didn't properly secure the heatsink. That is why the first four replies on this thread asked the OP to check his heatsink. CompuTronix's post about ambient was not aimed at the OP - it was specifically directed at the first four posters. I'm here to help people, not chastise the people who are here to help. I don't care who you are - if you post in a thread it should be with the intention of helping the OP. If a poster states something that is wrong, then correct them politely.

idle temp is 40c = 104f ..which means his house would be around 95-100f if he has good air flow from room thru the pc.
if his room temp is lower than that..that means he has a cooling problem inside the case

Once again, we get threads here from all over the world, from both Hemispheres during Summer and Winter, with or without A/C, or very little heat ... or windows wide open in scorching heat. Like it or not, we live in a technical world full of standards and specifications, and ambient is part of it. Intel's Thermal Specifications are based on 22C Standard Ambient.



Well then, while you're feeling dedicated to helping everyone understand a very confusing topic, I suggest that you take some serious time out of your life to perform all the research and hands-on testing, take plenty of notes, then compose a Guide. Don't be afraid to spend plenty of your own money on parts. Make sure that your Guide is correct in every detail, then painstakingly and repeatedly edited for content and updates. Your Guide must include the items you mentioned, which I purposely left out for simplicity.

Be sure that it's not too complicated but has enough details, and that it's not too long or too short, and that it's structured and worded as carefully as possible, and make sure that it flows. You may even find creative ways to avoid mentioning ambient, and don't forget to let Intel know how completely clueless they are about it, as well as all the staff writers here at Tom's. We'll be on pins and needles to see how this works out for you. Good luck with it.



While there are probabilities, the OP has proven nothing because he has yet to respond. This was his 5th post here at Tom's. He didn't even give his system specs.



What do you think I see here every day?



I agree.



I'm looking at a bigger picture. This thread has 18 posts, some by the same Forum Members, but this thread also has 93 reads. That's where we hope to get the point across to the larger audience in the background.



And for that I stand corrected, and offer you my apologies for having breached your sensibilities.

CT

I the same problem with my new i7 4790k.First I thought it because i used the stock fan. After purchasing noctua d15, it dropped about 10-15C at intel stable test. 85-95 is still high though. Is there any solution yet?

imo, stock fans should only be used if you are stationed at the south pole.

Hello... Well at 85-95 you are within Specs. B ) Start having some Fun with some Programs... and report back your temps as your GPU starts to generate heat into your case.

5) Another method I have used is to UnderVolt your CPU from the default MB BIO's setting... reduce untill CPU become unstable and increase back up for stable operation.

i think mvp put us on ignore...he hasn't replied once since the thread started

To what are you referring?