Power Supplies, Graphics Cards, PCI-e, and TDP, oh my! Someone guide me on this...

King_V

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Ok, so I know that there are the official statements from video card manufacturers, but they have to play it safe. They don't know how many devices the average person has on their PC.

Still, let's limit this to video cards that do NOT have extra power connectors, and draw their power ONLY from the PCI-e slot. As I understand it, the PCI-e spec says that a system must be able to provide 75W to the PCI-e slot. Therefore:

Question 1: Should ANY video card that does NOT have an auxiliary power connector work on any PC? (assuming not too much draw from other devices)

So, I've talked about what I was looking to upgrade in this thread. Yeah, I'm limited to a single slot, low-profile solution. It's right up against the edge of the case (of course), and so I don't have the clearance for a double-height cooling solution, or even slot-and-a-half height. The card currently there measures 5/8" height for the heatsink, and 3/4" height if you count from the bottom of the PCB to the top of the heatsink. I maybe have another 1/16" to 1/8" clearance before there will be contact with the case. Fortunately, the case has a vent right where the GPU heatsink will be.

I took a closer look at the power supply (it is not replaceable - or if it is, I haven't come across any power supply of that particular long, flat shape with a higher wattage).

It is rated at 220W. It is in a Dell PC purchased in early 2014. But on the side, it lists the following information:

  • * 12V - 18A
    * 5V - 15A
    * 3.3V - 10A
Maximum continuous output will not exceed 220W.

There was another one I couldn't make out. Still, by my math, that comes to well over 220W. I'm figuring the 12V rail has 216W, the 5V rail has 75W, and the 3.3V rail has 33W.

Question 2: Given that the hardware (not counting the video card) consists of:

  • * Pentium G3220 (65W)
    * 1 500GB hard drive (typically 25W I think?)
    * 1 stick 4GB DDR3 (4W, and I may upgrade to a 2nd stick for 8GB, so we'll say 10W for safety)
    * 2 existing fans, one in the PSU (small), one on the CPU (large and extremely quiet) - (maybe under 10W total?)

I'm coming up with a maximum of 110 watts drawn, not counting a video card. Are my assumptions here correct?

I was originally looking at getting a GeForce GT 730 GDDR5, as they're available in low-profile, single slot solutions (I wish the GTX 750 was available in that form factor)

However, given my system, and assuming I can find a single-slot, low-profile version, wouldn't I be able to safely run a Radeon R7 250 GDDR5 (NOT the 250X, maybe the 250E if it's performance is on par with the 250 or old 7750)? I've seen estimates of 60-70W TDP. Or perhaps a Radeon 7750, rated at slightly less TDP? Putting me at about 180W total draw, doesn't that leave me a reasonably comfortable reserve? Or, really, ANY video card that fits physically and does not have auxiliary power connectors?

I have a feeling I might be missing something important. Still, what are people's thoughts? Would this be safe? If not, why not? The PC will be splitting its time between YouTube videos, and some FPS 3D gaming (so far Borderlands 2 will the most graphically taxing game I'll run on it, low-med settings at 1080p)

Any guidance on theory, the power draw, the assumptions I've made, etc., are greatly appreciated - especially if it helps me understand the guts of the whole thing.

EDIT: while I'm on this, how does the 250E compare to the 250, performance-wise?
 
Solution
sounds like you have the right idea and now only need to find the right card. good luck and enjoy all the reading you have ahead of you :) reviews and such are the best way to see where others have put the card and where it did not fit.

Math Geek

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your math is correct and you should be able to run a card that does need the extra power connector as you have enough headroom on that psu. the 750 or 750ti is right up your alley for this. i have seen single slot versions of both and either should run in your system if it fits. you need to do some measuring in the case to ensure the one you pick will fit.

the 12v amps is what really determines the psu's abilities. watts are horribly overstated on cheap psu's and just because it may say 500w, it really may put out only around 250 or so. your psu should give you what it says it will which means you are ok with up to around 60w gpu.this will leave a little bit of headroom for the psu.

here is a single slot 750ti to start your journey http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127836

you will have to decide if it fits or not as i don't have the case in front of me :) measure from the back of the case where it will poke through and toward the front until it hits the first thing. this is the length it can be and how tall is from the top of the pcie slot to the side of the case.
 

King_V

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Thanks - I was wondering if there was something important that I'm missing.

Took a look at the 750ti you linked - unfortunately, given this case, the cooler is too tall. I probably should've clarified a bit more, it's not just that I need low-profile and only a single-slot taken up on the back, but the cooler has to fit within a single slot height, maybe pushing an extra 1/8" inch past that.

(Those Small Desktop Dell Inspiron 3000/3647 machines are conveniently compact, but that compactness is WAY less convenient when video card upgrades become an issue! Also, the power supply does not have auxiliary connectors, not surprising given that it's a 220W unit)

Currently, I've seen GT 730 64-bit GDDR5 cards in single-slot, low-profile, and single-slot-height coolers (from PNY). I've come across VisionTek R7 250 cards with a similar layout, but the one customer review I've read on it was complaining about fan noise. I'm hoping if I go with the PNY, it won't be as much of an issue.

So, I'm down to looking for (in order of performance based on the GPU Hierarchy Chart (and individual reviews):
- GT 730 64-bit GDDR5 (38-48W) (known available, so my "guaranteed" card, so to speak)
- R7 250 DDR3 (65W)
- R7 250 GDDR5 (65W)
- 7750 GDDR5 (55W)
- R7 250E GDDR5 (55W) (identical to 7750?)

If I'm going Radeon, I'd rather get a 7750 or 250E... it's just a matter of finding one that'll fit!
 

Math Geek

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sounds like you have the right idea and now only need to find the right card. good luck and enjoy all the reading you have ahead of you :) reviews and such are the best way to see where others have put the card and where it did not fit.
 
Solution

King_V

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Just as a followup, I wound up getting a Sapphire low-profile R7 250, which, going by the GPU and memory speed, and memory bandwidth, actually, is a 250E, though I don't know why they don't label it as such. It's actually a low profile (though also has a bracket for normal size), and the cooler fits within a single slot as well.

So, 55W TDP as it's a R7 250E instead of the 65W for the standard R7 250. My son was gaming with it for hours this weekend. It doesn't seem to get unreasonably hot, and the fan is nearly silent despite being small. So far, I'm quite happy with it, and there wasn't even the slightest hiccup with his PC.