Time To upgrade? FX8100 vs FX8370 and HD7870 question.

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Brandon033

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Dec 31, 2013
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Hello i'm looking for some advice. I'm considering upgrading my cpu. I only game heavily and movies with this pc. ill leave my specs and a link to my current set up below. my current cpu is heavily overclocked and liquid cooled. I'm looking to gain fps in all games. The question is my current cpu which is a fx-8100 oveclocked @ 4400ghz would be worth replacing with a fx-8370? I do intend to overclock the new cpu as far as I can take it. Should I wait for a better offering from amd? Basically is a $200 upgrade going to be much of an upgrade? where could I spend it better or should I move towards intel? I Can barely break 25 to 30fps in Arma 3, in multiplayer and it's not much better in single player. it kills me because its my fav. In battlefield I run between 45-80fps I haven't played it in for ever. Ac 4 I just got because it was on sale usually 45-60fps at sea, dips to 35-60fps in heavy multi large ship conflicts big towns. Just this weekend I overclocked my nb and ht frequency and was happily surprised with the results. I picked up a consistent 7-fps in Heaven. I Play everything on ultra, AA maxed always on I can handle jagged lines and v-sync on. I am striving to have every game maxed and playable. I test heaven on 1080 max every setting AAX16 benchmark is 1226 sometimes between 10 points higher. All the games I play are in 720p because its the highest my Sony supports, I will be upgrading that soon to 1080p or maybe 4k. (keep that in mind when helping me out) I have 2 HD 7870s one gigabyte one powercooler both overclocked editions, the powercooler one says it supports 4k but the gigabyte dosent say it supports on the specs. The gigabyte is my first card in crossfire. Any idea if they support 4k. theres a link to both cards. thanks in advance. Please see Links below.

Specs CPU AMD FX-8100 @4.4ghz- cooling solution corsair h100i 57c at full load
Kingston 1600mhz ram 8gb
NB frequency OC'D 2600mhz
HT Link OC'D 2600mhz
PCIE OC'D 115 ( I know everyone advises against this but it took my crossfire stutter out and allowed for some fantastic gpu overclock. All the data I could find on this subject is very dated,its working for me)
GPU Crossfired HD7870 OC'D Core Clock 1192mhz and Memory Clock 1400mhz
windows 7 current
western digital 7200rpm 1TB HD
XFX Pro 750 Watt PSU
MOTHERBOARD ASUS M5A99X EVO R2.0 AM3+, AMD 990X, SATA 6Gb/s,
Monitor Sony 46" 720p 1080i hdmi connection being used.

Cpu comparison Link
http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/306/AMD_FX-Series_FX-8100_vs_AMD_FX-Series_FX-8370.html

GPU Specs links.

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4154#ov

http://www.powercolor.com/us/products_features.asp?id=446

Whew!!! Thanks guys. This was my first build a year aqo and the first time I've ever done any overclocking> Ive learned a lot from here at Toms in a year.

P.S. I know everyone is gonna say turn down arma, but no matter the res, detail, view distance, etc (no matter the setting) I get the same fps, something is up. amd windows hotfix done, cores not unlocked threw the registry(did that once lost 10fps across the board hade to re-install and correct, I will never touch the registry again lol.) only unlock using the hotfix and your Bios Imo. I didn't really see a diff in the hot fix as my power saving options are all disabled in the Bios.












 
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Brunostako

Brunostako

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Dec 16, 2013
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If you want to stay with your AM3+ platform, you could upgrade to a FX-6350. You, really don't need those 8 cores for gaming.

And the HD 7870 is the same as R9 270, so you really don't need a very high end CPU. It's like a top mid-range GPU now.
 
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Mr_Venbeer

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You won't benefit at all from upgrading to an FX-8370. You will only be able to overclock further. ARMA 3 is a very CPU demanding game and is poorly optimized for AMD CPU's. It's best to switch to Intel if you are unsatisfied with your performance.
I'm sure the latest Omega drivers significantly improved performance for Crossfire configurations in a lot of game. If you don't have these drivers yet, I high suggest you try them out.
 
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Jdogz427

Jdogz427

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as long as the cards have a displayport you can use them to try to run 4k but todays AAA titles you will not be able to run 4K. you can however run 4K in games like TF2, CSGO, and DOTA2 no problem at 60fps. I dont think you should upgrade the CPU that seems fine at the moment, i would focus on the GPU if anything, but for the games that most people play everyday like the ones i mentioned, those cards will run 4K just fine, bc if a r7 260x can run those at 4K you should have no problem doing the same, check this video out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4xDfEOGONw
 
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Mr_Venbeer

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I'm pretty sure a 7870 is equivalent to an R9 270X
 
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geofelt

geofelt

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Put some science into your research.

To help clarify your CPU/GPU options, run these two tests:

a) Run your games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

b) Limit your cpu, either by reducing the OC, or, in windows power management, limit the maximum cpu% to something like 70%.
Go to control panel/power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state/
This will simulate what a lack of cpu power will do.
Conversely what a 30% improvement in core speed might do.

You could also experiment with removing one core in the bios. You can also do this in the windows start configuration.
This will tell you how sensitive your games are to the benefits of many cores.

If your FPS drops significantly, it is an indicator that your cpu is the limiting factor, and a cpu upgrade is in order.

It is possible that both tests are positive, indicating that you have a well balanced system, and both cpu and gpu need to be upgraded to get better gaming FPS.

 
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ingtar33

ingtar33

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Dec 17, 2012
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1) Piledriver (83xx) chips represent aproximately 15% IPC gain over bulldozer. They also overclock BETTER. So a stock 8350 with a 4.4ghz turbo would pretty much be a 15% improvement over your bulldozer. Pretty much any piledriver you could buy will hit about 4.7ghz with a h100i cooler. that represents a 13% clock speed increase, so you would get close to a 27%-30% increase in performance right out of the gate with that piledriver. Note, i mention 83xx chips, because AMD doesn't bin chips for max overclock speed (they bin using other measurables). So purchasing a 8320 will likely yield just as high a final overclock as buying a 8370. take a look at the cpuid validation in my sig

2) you'll be waiting until 2016 at the earliest

3) that's up to you

4) this is a little more complicated. Since you're playing ARMA3, and it's your "favorite" game, i would suggest, if you can afford it, to upgrade to an overclockable intel i5 or i7 and overclock the snot out of it. ARMA3 runs like trash on Ultra settings on top end overclocked intels... it will do a lot worse on an AMD. If you're willing to turn down some settings though...

5) you won't game in 4k on a video card with 2gb of ram. 4gb or more will likely be needed for 4k gaming. It's why the r9-290x regularly benched better then the 780ti in 4k benches. 4k gaming requires high end cards in xfire or SLi with lots of ram.
 
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RaDiKaL_

RaDiKaL_

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Your best bet is to upgrade to an Intel platform, at least an i5-4670k (or any other i5 k version so you can OC it taking advantage of your liquid cooling system), going even with a FX-9590 won't yield you much of an improvement, granted there was some architectural gains from over the FX-81xx series but at most you'll see a 20% in the best case scenario.
 
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Brunostako

Brunostako

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Depends on the clock speed.

R9 270 don't reach 1GHz and 270X go over 1GHz, but the stream processor count is the same.
 
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ingtar33

ingtar33

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Dec 17, 2012
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plus the gains in clock speed. bulldozer doesn't overclock well. piledriver does. he's stuck at a very slow clock speed (4.4), a piledriver with a h100i should hit 4.7ghz min, likely even more.



the r9-270x and 270 are the EXACT SAME GPU CORE as the 7870. The differences are gpu clock speed and memory clock speed.

that's it. just different overclocks on the different cards. That said the r9-270/270x will perform better in benches because of the significant memory clock speed overclock they have over a 7870. Even with serious overclocking is doubtful you'd ever get a 7870 GhzED to match that pair.
 
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Brandon033

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thanks for the response. yes I am up to date with Omega. I did a fresh install over Christmas to fix my unlocked cores in the registry mistake (im looking at you youtube vids) and to also remove any programs that might be a silent parasite. I updated to omega with no significant gain. I know my bios is 2 old versions but I have never been able to get the newer ones to post Bios for adjustments just straight to windows, so I went with what works. I may have to go with Intel : ( I really like AMD, I also have a MacBook pro with an I5 for music production and its great. just love the tweaking abilities of amd's.
 
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Brandon033

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Sorry Mr_Venbeer I meant videos I had seen and followed about unlocking cores in the registry. Great answers guys it seems they are as mixed as my feelings of what to do. I just want to game at a solid 60fps never dropping, never tearing, perfection immersed in the world presented to me. I would like to add that my cpu usage shows all cores working threw out all games, 0-87-90 percent across all cores at all times constantly varying. My gpus max at around 92 percent, at most demanding times. As i see people say games do not use more than 4 cores but i see usage in every core, in every game. So I'm confused. Also to games being poorly optimized, aren't all games designed, built, edit, tested on pcs? Then ported to consoles (those that are console games) so if this is the case, I can no longer get behind the idea of billion dollar company's realising poorly optimized pc games as the problem. I can only see the problem being too wide a spectrum of components and configurations to accurately predict preformance. I can't find it any where I look and if I'm the first to suggest it, but wouldn't the best way to list a recommendation of specs, would be to list the exact specs of the pc used to test the game. Wouldn't that save everyone trouble, save AAA publishers from getting run threw the ringer, provide a place to work back from and expect realistic results.
 
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ingtar33

ingtar33

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Dec 17, 2012
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haha. i only had it clocked at 5.3ghz for 20 minutes. enough time to boot into windows, run CPUID validation, open chrome, post the validation. then i powered it off.

it's actually running at 5ghz. and i've had it for a year plus a few days at or around 5ghz (i drop the clock speed down to 4.7ghz in the summer to save on my ac bill. phoenix is hot enough) .
 
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ingtar33

ingtar33

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Dec 17, 2012
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nope. Most console titles are built on development "machines"... which is not necessarily a pc.

And arma3 is at the very pinnacle of "unoptimized" pc games. It's bad/buggy code written on top of bad buggy code on an old engine (arma3 uses the same game engine as the original arma). It's single cored all the way.

as for the 8 cores active thing... that's windows being windows. Unless the game demands to keep it's workload on a specific physical core, windows TRIES to keep all the cores equally active. This means a single cored game can be bounced to every core on your system for a fraction of a second, as windows tries to keep them all active. the monitoring programs all don't poll the cpu enough to see this, so it looks like most of the cores are active.

Currently there are only two mainstream game engines which use more then 2 cpu cores... that's the CryEngine3 used in crysis3, and the frostbite game engine used in BF4, Civ beyond earth, and Dragonage Inquisition. The CryEngine3 is basically a 4 cored game engine. it has 4 main threads... and a bunch of leftover stuff for extra cores if you have them... as a result the game actually plays pretty much the same for a quad core i7 and a six core i7... while it plays a little worse on a 4 core i5... so a little more then 4 threads is the best we can say for it. The Frostbyte game engine however is really just a 3 thread game engine, with a bunch of leftover stuff for whatever cores you have beyond those three.

outside of those two main game engines pretty much nothing uses more then 2 threads. (this is likely more to do with the xbox360 core count (3) then any other reason)

meanwhile 60fps in max settings everything in arma 3 will take an intel cpu overclocked to the moon to pull off
 
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RaDiKaL_

RaDiKaL_

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Sadly more and more companies make games for consoles and then port them to pc due to the heavy piracy going on mostly with pc releases, take Ubisoft for example, all their new games are made for console and then ported (in the most pathetic way) to pc, AC series being the proof of it (specially AC3 and their latest title Unity).
 
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Mr_Venbeer

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Also it's near impossible for an 8350 to bottleneck a 7850.
 
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Mr_Venbeer

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I'm not hating you because you pick an Intel CPU. I hate because you come in here a post exaggerated conclusions and all you are doing is making it harder for people to figure out the problem and also making it harder for people like me who are actually trying to help. I don't mind you posting at all, just don't confuse the people.
 
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Mr_Venbeer

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I never said I denied anything. I like both Intel and AMD. I will be upgrading to an i7 when I need to and have the money to, because right now I don't need an upgrade because it all runs fine in my situations, which are completely different to yours. You are just misusing the facts. You have to think of the other person's perspective and environment, not just your experiences.
 
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Brandon033

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I won't hate for building the best rig. I should clarify I am aware of Armas terrible code problems. I don't expect it to be perfect but other polished titles should. Like the GTA 5 i too want that game to run at 60fps and not move. on the other hand don't believe the guys over at Bohemia are running around at 19-30 fps going ok guys we've done it again. Something is getting lost and even if most games are created on a game building station, it still has a processor what kind? After that it has to be tested on a pc for a pc port what's that pc etc... no way ubisoft said hey this game can't run screw it ship it. We spent x, we won't get it back stock are gonna drop 13 percent. Nope I do not by that conspiracy theory at all. If anything i think pc ports specs are less than adequate to keep people from passing on them because of not playing the best quality. I know for a fact I purchased unity on sale from ubisoft on Christmas for 30 because I really wanted it, even for a 30.00 tech demo lol. But I was going to pass until i knew i could run at full potential. Which I've held off still until i buy a new 1080p or better tv. Speaking of i saw a reference to refresh rate the refresh rate of my current 46" 720p is 60hz but it says something about 1080i 30hz when it's running interlace in my desktop res. setup. But most games lock at 720p 60hz since 1080i isn't supported.
 
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