H105 fan header

I'm getting a h105 in the mail (because my h100i is failing and the h105 is better since I don't have to deal with firmware updates).

My question is should I plug the h105 pump into the fan header on the mobo or use a molex adapter for the psu instead? Will Asus Fan Xpert 3 try to adjust the voltage on the pump and make the pump start to fail?

Thank you, I can't find much on this topic with the search engine.
 
Solution


I have never had a fan make noise at 500-600...


I'm only talking about the pump, I already know where the CPU fans go.
 


Ok then, ill connect it to the PSU, thank you.

If I did put the pump connector in the fan header, would my Fan Xpert try to control it's speed (which I don't want to risk)?
 
There is no risk to putting the pump on a PWM header. You have the option of having FanXpert run the pump at a constant speed (100% or otherwise) or having the pump respond to changes in temp. Swiftech is the clear industry leader in the "All-in-one" cooler category and they provide an 8 pin PWM Splitter and IIRC pump speed varies from 1200 to 3000 rpm.

Yes, it's certainly not necessary to control the pump speed, but there are wear and noise advantages to doing so. You are also losing one of the great features of ya MoBo which is the ability to control this to your liking. Most modern Z87 MoBos come with a PWM CPU and CPU_1 header and with Z97, every board I have seen has PWM available on all chassis and CPU headers. Ideally ya wanna control the fans and pump separately.

While the 105 pump is a bit weak, certainly no harm and some advantage to using speed control on it. The higher the speed the faster the wear rate and the rate is not linear, it's exponential. Noise is an issue also

Here's how I am using Asus Fan Xpert (4 Channels)

Channel 1
CPU Header => Pump No. 1 (Swiftech 35X) .... rpm range 1500 - 4500 (0.75 to 2.25 gpm total w/two pumps)
CPU-1 Header => Pump No. 2 (Swiftech 35X).... rpm range 1500 - 4500

Channels 2 - 4
CHA_1 => Fan Hub 1 => 6 Fans on 420mm Radiator ... rpm range 325 - 1250 (never breaks 850)
CHA_2 => Fan Hub 2 => 4 Fans on 280mm Radiator
CHA_23 => Fan Hub 3 => 5 Fans on Case

I used 6 temp sensors and 2 flow meters to set up the loop but this is very easy do.

Option 1 - It is not necessary to have variable speed control but you will certainly benefit from running at a fixed speed lower than max. FanXpert has both fixed and variable speed options so if ya wanna run at fixed speed. Run Intel XTU and monitor Core temps. In order to balance noise / wear versus performance, in FanXpert, click the radio button for fixed rpm and set speed to max. Drop the speed in increments of 100 rpm (or whatever seems comfy) and let the system stabilize. Record temps versus rpm, both of which are visible in the AISuite window when running FanXpert. Those are not CPU core temps tho, that's the CPU "package temp" which is much lower. Once done, suggest using HWiNFO64 for core temp measurements and make sure you are comfy w/ those.

Rinse and repeat till ya get down to about 30% of full speed (that's typical for WC pumps, not sure if it's of any benefit with Corsairs stuff to go below 50%) . Obviously stop if ya see any temps ya don't like. What you will observe generally is that there is no change in thermal performance (or even flow rate if measuring) for the first series of drops.....on my pumps, 70% and 100% give same performance. So, there is no reason whatsoever for me to run at above 70% as the noise difference is observable and I get no real benefit. So if I was to run at fixed rpm, I would set the pump to always run at 70% of full speed w/ FanXpert.

Option 2 - After completing the above, you can leave your machine at idle and do the same ... observe temps versus speed. Mine worked fine at 30% and I would not go below that in any case.

Of course using a water temperature sensor would be far more useful in this regard.

I should note that under CPU testings my fans barely move, I have to add Furmark to increase water temps more than 2C...even than Delta T (water - ambient) stays under 10C and rpms never break 850 rpm. The entire PC is dead silent, you can not tell the system is on even with side panels off. However at 4500 rpm I can hear the pump....so far it has never broken 3100 rpm and it's inaudible at that speed.

Now the thing with the H series from Corsair with the 2700 rpm fans is that the fans are so loud (equivalent to a 1950s style vacuum cleaner) they drown out any pump noise. So I do see techy's point in that reducing pump noise may have no real advantage there. However, the wear and tear issue is something to consider.

I wish you would have had an opportunity to check out the H220-X before purchasing the H105....for an extra $15, would see a world of difference..... Corsair also provides a 8 pim PWM fan splitter hub ($11) in the kit to address your issue, making the cost the same.

The H220-x tops every ever CLC on the market and has numerous advantages:

-Can open loop and add blocks
-All copper components, versus Corsair's aluminum
-All custom water loop grade / quality components
-1/6th as loud as the H100i / H105

b2.jpg


http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/cooling/liquid/40870-swiftech-h220-x-open-loop-240mm-cpu-cooler-review?showall=&start=3

However, with a CLC you are limited to only what it is, and only the performance it can deliver as assembled. With that in mind, the H220X makes infinitely more sense as a starting point into liquid cooling. It is ready to go out of the box and requires no maintenance, but it is also fully expandable when you are ready to take the next step. Even if you aren’t looking to take the next step, the H220X outperforms every CLC on the market, and does it at more than 20 dB quieter.....

There is not a 240mm CLC or air cooler that can beat it, and it does it at 20+ dB quieter than the competing CLCs. To sum it up; the H220X offers better performance, lower noise, better aesthetics, flawless design and build, better components and the option of expandability when compared to a CLC. Putting it gently, choosing any CLC over the H220X would be doing yourself a huge disservice.

I should also note than FanXpert has an option to shut off case fans below a certain point (recommended) and to ramp up / ramp down fans at faster / slower rates. Experiment with these as when subject to varying loads, the fans can get caught "chasing their tail" so to speak and in some instances results in whiring sounds as fans repeatedly spin up faster than down slower...... reminds me of a new driver learning to use a clutch / stick shift.
 

nick779

Honorable
Apr 23, 2012
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10,710


Yeah they may be a performance leader, but the reviews say otherwise.
 
Thank you Jack!! That is EXACTLY what I needed!

As far as noise, I disagree about fan noise, I have 3 120mm fans (stock corsair SPs I think) and 2 140mm stock corsair SP fans and all are inaudible (unless I put my ear right next to the fan. (All the fans run at around 500-600rpm.)

Ok ill plug my pump into my mobo, I can just plug it into any of my 4 pin fan headers right? (my z97-A only has 4 pin fan headers.)

And thx for the tip on the better AIO cooler, but $130 is way to much for me. $110 is max for now. (Plus with $130 i'd get the 360mm AIO from thermaltake.)

One more thing, why are half of the people I see saying it's bad to throttle the pump while the rest say its good?
 


Show me. What CLC's are made with copper radiators ? What CLC's beat the Swiftech H220-X at comarable noise levels ? The Thermaltakle Water 3 does thermally but at more than twice the noise level so that's a fail.

That's Graphic and description is from a review. I have yet to see a single review where the Swiftech didn't crush all comers

http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/cooling/liquid/40870-swiftech-h220-x-open-loop-240mm-cpu-cooler-review?showall=&start=3

the H220X outperforms every CLC on the market, and does it at more than 20 dB quieter. ..... Installation of the H220X was very easy, probably the easiest liquid cooler I have ever done. A huge part of this is thanks to the use of the Apogee XL block, which is a flagship top tier block and has a mounting system fitting of that stature. .....

In terms of performance, well….we could simply leave it at the fact that the [b]H220X is simply the best performing out-of-the-box cooler you can buy today. Period[/b]. It slightly betters its predecessor, the H220, as well as the Glacer 240L that is equipped with far more powerful and louder fans. The NZXT X60/61 comes close in terms of performance, but at the expense of far more noise and far less compatibility. [b]240mm CLCs can’t touch the H220X in all out performance, and at tolerable noise levels the H220X flat out embarrasses them[/b]. The Cryorig R1 and Noctua NH-D15 come closest in matching the H220X in terms of performance and noise, but fall short. What more can you say? [b]We put the best out of the box solutions up against the H220X, and the H220X walked away a clear winner and did so with absolutely astonishing performance to noise.[/b] With all of this performance the H220X never topped 40 dB at full speed.

The result of this redesign makes the H220X the best performing cooler that is install ready right out of the box. There is not a 240mm CLC or air cooler that can beat it, and it does it at 20+ dB quieter than the competing CLCs. To sum it up; the H220X offers better performance, lower noise, better aesthetics, flawless design and build, better components and the option of expandability when compared to a CLC. Putting it gently, choosing any CLC over the H220X would be doing yourself a huge disservice

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Swiftech/H220-X/9.html

Swiftech has really outdone themselves with the H220-X. They have taken a kit whose separate parts would have cost in excess of $200 and reduced its price down to a mere $140. While high, what you get is simply amazing as it tops the charts and takes the performance crown to boot. Winning our benchmarks is no small feat, and Swiftech's AIO managed to do so while being surprisingly quiet, which is just fantastic. Competing AIO liquid coolers just can't compare in this regard. Let's not forget the impeccable build quality, and with the option to expand the kit, it just doesn't get any better than the H220-X outside of a fully custom built liquid-cooling assembly, but those are prohibitively expensive....... Overall, I am just plain floored by the H220-X's quality and performance.

If your in the market for an all-in-one liquid CPU cooler, look no further than the Swiftech H220-X as it sets the bar for all other all-in-one kits to follow.

http://www.overclockers.com/swiftech-h220x-cpu-liquid-cooling-kit-review

The Swiftech H220-X is an impressive piece of hardware, make no mistake about it. It’s unquestionably the best performing AIO cooler I’ve ever had my hands on. ....If you’re searching for the best all-in-one water cooler with a 240 mm radiator, the search stops here

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?289340-Swiftech-H220-X-Review-Part-1-of-2

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this aio water-cooling unit is the best I have ever tested..... , perform better than some of the much more expensive custom made water-cooling loops.

The performance is way ahead of the competition , in fact there is not one aio water-cooler that can offer the performance and upgradeability of the Swiftech H220-X , it's a clear choice when looking to buy a new aio water-cooler , look no further the Swiftech H220-X is right for you. The Swiftech H220-X is the future , the next generation in aio water-cooling gear. Do not get stuck in older generation clones aio water-cooling completely closed and non-upgradable , the future is here right now !

Yes, there are probably 2 x 140mm coolers that can beat it (Kraken X61 w/ it's faster and noisier 2000 rpm fans) .... but not when noise is considered, not when materials are considered and conclusively, none offer the ability to expand the loop to other blocks..... But then again, 2 x 120 coolers should be compared with 2 x 120 coolers..... Swiftech also has the H240-X






 


I have never had a fan make noise at 500-600 rpm.... at least not in this size range. The SP's typically run at 2350 rpm and I have yet to see a fan above 1200 rpm be completely inaudible.

As for what where ....

I'd plug the pump into CPU header or CPI_1 header. I can't speak for the whole Asus line, but the RoG Z97 boars like the M7F and Hero have selectable PWM / DCV on all the 4 pin fan headers ... your manual will explain this in detail. Also if you open AISuite / FanXpert, this will tell you what headers it's monitoring. The reason ya may not wanna use CPU_1 is that then your fans will be tied to the same control curve.

As for the costs ... we're talking $15 extra for the 240-X ($25 for the H220-x). The Thermaltake Water 3 manages to edge the H220-x by about 1.7C .... but it's a 3 x 120 cooler and is more than twice as loud as the H220-X.... and the H240-X beats the Thermaltalke.... Also, let's not forget that with the Swiftech you get :

Copper not aluminum
You can open the loop
$10 PWM splitter
A reservoir
Real custom water loop components

$125 H240-X
http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=102715&vpn=H240%2DX&manufacture=Swiftech

$135 H240-X
http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=93547&vpn=H220%2DX&manufacture=Swiftech

As to why you get different opinions on Pump Throttling....

1. Generic opinions are oft formed after limited experience. If you had driven a big ole Dodge Sedan, you might walk away thinking "Dodge cars are unresponsive and sluggish" ... drive a Viper and your mind will change. Buy an X Brand MoBo and get a lemon and that person is likely to swear off that brand for the rest of their lives.

2. Limited ability to evaluate. Unless you have the ability to monitor water temps at various points in the loop, as well as flow rate it's difficult to see the points about which performance changes. Performance will always be limited by the proverbial "weakest link in the chain".... or what PC peeps like to refer to as "the bottleneck". What generally happens is, at full throttle, the pump is capable of delivering heat to the radiator faster than the radiator and fans are capable of disseminating it..... or ... faster than the blocks can pull it off the block. And let's not forget:

The faster the pump runs, the more heat it itself generates..... and the relationship is exponential as faster flow creates more pump back pressure. And where does that heat go ? .... into the coolant.

Now if you throttle the pump down so much that the rad / fans are not doing all they can, then performance suffers ..... but if you throttle it down so that the radiator and fan are balanced with the pump, you at your system's peak efficiency point. Pushing more water then you need increases pump heat which in effect decreases the ability of the cooling system to take away CPU heat.

My pumps are air cooled (have their own heat sink and fan) bit the H105 is cooled by the coolant. At 1 gpm one of my pumps creates about 13.5 watts of heat ... at full speed it's 23.5 .... If my pump was water cooled like the corsair, that would be an extra 10 watts of heat in the loop ..... and this for cooling a CPU with a TDP of 84 watts ....So having the pump run at lower tempos and rpm, not only reduces wear but improves cooling system performance.

It's perfectly acceptable to stop here and leave the pump at this setting. For most loops anything above 1.0 - 1.25 gpm provides no additional benefit. With mu pump (35X2), you can see there's rarely going to be a reason to be above 50% PWM. I have a medium restriction loop running at about 1.55 at 50% ... which is still a bit high (2 GFX cards WBs, CPU WB, MoBo WB, 2 rads, Res) . Now because the 35X2 is a dual pump, a single pump would deliver close what you see on that 50% curve. The Corsair pumps will be a bit less.... however the loop is certainly in the very low restriction category.

For the sake of argument let's say that the Corsair pump at 100% is equivalent to the 40% curve ... 1.5 gpm will be audible at the pumps full speed .... and you don't need that amount of flow. Dropping to 30% (75% on the Corsair Curve) delivers adequate flow. Now if you look at the noise at 100% and 75% here

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/01/29/swiftech-mcp35x2-pump/7/

You see that we drop from 38 to 34 w/ decoupler and that it stays at that level as we go down. So from a noise standpoint .... we really don't gain anything from going below 75% BUT we do gain from dropping from 100% to 75% and leaving it there.

swiftech-mcp35x2-pq-all.png


Still, since ya don't need 1.5 gpm, you can save wear and tear, as well as reduce the heat ontribution from the pump, by dropping the flow rate and rpm when it's not needed.

3. Things change - Lotta reviews out there purporting to but myths and give the real truth .... but many are old, outdated and irrelevant. One example is the need for high SP fans .... yes, very true back in the day of 30 fpi rads but it;s getting hard to find those....the emphasis on water cooling has gone from max performance to good performance with low noise and therefore rads are 8 - 12 fpi and have no need for high SP fans. This stuff will be reposted for years and years as tho it came from a reliable source, what was true then is no longer true now.

4. And finally .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOzAgpxg5wE :)

Again, peeps just CLC's because they want something easy that they can just install an forget it. This type of analysis and set up is not fr this crowd. It takes work to evaluate the impact but there are real savings in noise, pump life and thermal performance. Many will say ....

-I don't care about noise cause the fans are so loud i don't care about pump noise .... or I wear earphones
-I don't care of my pump last 3 years instead of 5 cause I will have a new PC in 3 years
-I don't care about whether my CPU core temps ate 80C versus 78C

And that's certainly a valid outlook. But of those things do matter to you then it's worth looking at.
 
Solution
You could put the pump on CPU
You could put the Fans on CPU_1

But..... do you want the pump speed running in sync with the fans ? I would say no. The two CPU headers are controlled via a single channel in FanXpert. So all that info and independent control we talked about above is gone.

In my build, as we see from the above curve we get the same flow from 70% to 100% PWM, .... so based upon testing, I have my pump working between 30% and 70% PWM. When you test you will pick your own endpoints.

Your radiator fans OTOH you want the capacity to operate over larger fan ... say 30% to 100% so ya want that on a separate channel.

You have, IIRC, 5 fans, two on the rad and 3 case fans. So what I would do:

Channel 1 - CPU_1 => Pump / CPU_2 => Empty

Channel 2 - CHA_1 => Rad Fans
Channel 3 - CHA_2 => Case Fan 1
Channel 4 - CHA_3 => Case Fan 2
Channel 5 - CHA_4 => Case Fan 3

Assuming of course that FanXpert has 5 channels. You'll need one PWM splitter for the rad fans. There's no need for three separate channels for the case fans but it saves ya buying another splitter.


 


Yes and no.....

1. BOTH CPU and CPU OPT are at the same PWM or %

2. Say at 100% PWM, pump speed is 1850 and fans are 2350 as I don't Know what they are

At 100%, pump is at 1850 rpm / fans at 2350 rpm
At 75%, pump is at 1388 rpm / fans at 2763 rpm
At 50%, pump is at 925 rpm / fans at 1125 rpm
 
Again, you can look up the fan curves for just about any water cooling pump on martins liquid lab or other enthusiast site or manufacturer's web site. Corsair however is rather tight lipped. You want a minimum speed so that cooling is not negatively affected. Best way to do that is load Intel XTU (aka ETU) and run it.... start at 100% speed and use FanXpert to manipulate the the rpm ..

1. Start puter and leave at idle until temps stabilize
2. Set up a spreadsheet to record Ambient temp, water temp (does corsair provide a way of measuring ?), all 4 max core temps
3. Have spreadstreet calculate average core temp, Delta T (water to air), Delta T (core to air)

4. Start Puter and run pump at full speed w/ puter idling ... wait till temps stabilize and reset values in HWiNFO64
5. Record idle data
6. Start Intel XTU and run till core temps stabilize (max temps are static for 3 minutes)
7. Record data
8. Stop Intel XTU and wait till temps return to values in Step 5
9. Drop rpm by 100 and repeat steps 6 thru 8
10 Rinse and repeat ... where tou see a break point in the curve is "Point B"

Now run at idle and do the same to get "Point A"

Set up your initial pump curve such that it is flat to the left of point A and flat to the right of Point B and a straight line in between.

Oh before doing any of this...run the automatic fan tuning feature and let FanXpert do the initial setup. This will auto setup the minimum speed points
 


Got it. Ill do this once my h105 comes in later today.

Thank you so much Jack, you are by far the most helpful person on the forums I've seen in a while. :)
 


I don't use Corsair CLCs. Corsair has lotta unique "issues" with speed control on their fans so I' not surprised you are having speed control issues with the pump. I have two Swiftech pumps..... I run 1 off CPU and the other off CPU_OPT .... because both CPU and CPU_OPT run on the same channel, the two pumps run within a rpm or 2 of each other.

Refund option exists for 30 days.

 
As above, if you have fans and pump in CPU headers, you will have two different rpm readings being fed back. When you use two PWM things on the same channel, only 1 cab be a 4 wire connection, .... PWM splitters remove the 4th wire on the second connector. Otherwise

1. PWM controller says run stuff at 100% PWM
2. Pump tells controller its running at 1850 pm
3. Fan tells controller its running at 2350 pm
4. Controller says may up ya frakin mind and doesn't do anything :)