Upgrading in an Internet Cafe

d1versify · Feb 4, 2015

Hello,
I am working in an Internet Cafe.
We currently have computers with
AMD Phenom II X4 945
Gigabyte GTX 650 1gb
ASUS M4A79XTD EVO
DDR3 2x4gb 1333mhz

I was wondering if replacing the Phenom with one of those latest i5 would be good.
Is this ok or it won't work well?

laviniuc · Feb 4, 2015

an ssd drive in each would be a better/cheaper upgrade i think. upgrading to i5-s means new motherboards in each one too. ssd-s you can get and then keep also 1-2 years from now when you change them completely.

Karsten75 · Feb 4, 2015

On the technical merits alone, yes it will work well. There are however a number of considerations. You will need to replace the motherboards as well, so that is a significant cost. You probably need to upgrade with an additional 4GB of RAM. Depending on what your customers use the machines for, you may also have to upgrade the video cards.

Then you have to ask yourself if it is cost-effective in the light of the revenue you will get for your investment.

So the first question I will ask you - and it is one you should have asked yourself and informed us of - is what are your customers using these machines for? If it is just surfint he Internet and playing Flash games, then you'd probably not notice any difference.

barto · Feb 4, 2015

As laviniuc said, in order to use an i5, you would have to replace the motherboard as well.

What are you looking to spend for this upgrade?

d1versify · Feb 4, 2015

@Karsten75 Upgrading the CPU with the current GPU the systems have, will not have a significant performance boost?
The customers playing 70% League of Legends, 20% DOTA 2 and the rest Internet surfing and maybe some random games.
The computers run League of Legends perfectly now, since we have low-res monitors as well (1440-900 or something).
@barto Yes I know we have to replace motherboard as well

@laviniuc I don't understand how an SSD could give better performance in videogames

So you guys think it's gonna be a waste?

spdragoo · Feb 4, 2015

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106-6.html

Your CPU is currently 4th tier, but that's not necessarily bad. Given what the customers are using them for, & that your gamers aren't having any issues, you probably don't need to worry about a CPU upgrade. If you absolutely must, realize that your board is apparenly only a Socket AM3 (not Socket AM3+) (http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/M4A79XTD_EVO/specifications/), so the FX-series CPUs are out. If you can find some, however, you could upgrade to the 975/980 (quad) or even 1090T/1100T (hexa) Phenom IIs, which would put you up into 2nd tier. However, unless you're really seeing some slowdown you don't need it. And, as was pointed out, switching to Intel from AMD would involve switching motherboards, which makes it even more expensive.

RAM-wise, you should be fine. Too much past 1333MHz, & you start getting diminishing returns for the extra cost. Plus, dual sticks means you should be operating in dual-channel mode. However, if you wanted to, a small boost might be possible by doubling the RAM (4x4GB) on the PCs.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

If you really want a boost, especially for your gamers, this is where you can do it. The current GPUs are 12th-tier, & probably could stand to be upgraded. Even going to AMD's R7 260X or nVidia's GTX 750Ti would boost you up to 9th-tier. The R7 is cheaper ($125 vs. $150), but the 750Ti uses less power (recommended 300W PSU vs. 500W), so whichever works best for your setup. If you have the cash, another possibility would be either the GTX 960 ($210, needs 450W PSU) or R9 280 ($216, needs 500W PSU); both cards are considered 6th-tier, & would be solid upgrades for some time.

Karsten75 · Feb 4, 2015

d1versify :

I'd think the AMD processors are about fine. THe INtel i5-4690 is about twice as fast, at about $220 (plus the cost of the motherboard and 4GB of RAM). THen you'd just straight away bump into the limitations of the video card and the low-res monitors.

You may want to experiment by buying a few options and seeing which your customers would pay for.

1. Upgraded PC, RAM, motherboard, GPU and a higher-res monitor.
2. Current PC, upgraded GPU, monitor (probably needs a RAM upgrade as well)
3. Upgraded CPU, RAM and motherboard.

d1versify · Feb 4, 2015

Isn't the Phenom too weak for today's videogames? I thought upgrading the CPU insteaad of GPU would give a better result. But it's the opposite?

laviniuc · Feb 4, 2015

the phenom II is okeish, it's the swan song of the am3 socket. when the fx cpu-s first came out they were in some cases slower compared to the phenoms.

spdragoo · Feb 4, 2015

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/80?vs=362

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/80?vs=146

The 980 runs better than the 940 (couldn't find your 945 in the benchmark list) because each core runs much faster. The 1090T only runs slightly better in single-core applications because it's only slightly faster...but its hexa-core design allows for much better performance in multi-threaded benchmarks. Not sure if your boards can handle the 125W the 1100T needs, but in either case if you want a CPU upgrade without buying new motherboards either one would be a good choice.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/league-of-legends-performance-benchmark,3484-8.html

Although, from all appearances, LoL is apparently "lightweight", if an older Athlon X2 was able to reach 90 FPS with a similar GPU to the machines you're using. So, unless your users are clamoring for newer games, your CPUs are probably fine (as long as they last, at least).

http://anandtech.com/bench/CPU/1107

http://anandtech.com/bench/CPU/1072

http://anandtech.com/bench/CPU/1106

http://anandtech.com/bench/CPU/1104

As for "newer" games, it seems like the 1100T not only still compares favorably to the newer FX series, but for a number of the "2014" games it seems like the games are more GPU-dependent than CPU-dependent, as the superiority of the i5 & i7 CPUs, for their much higher cost, don't really translate to a lot of extra performance.

So, if I had to suggest a priority on upgrade, I would suggest the following, in terms of least-expensive to most-expensive:

1. Keep the CPU/motherboard, upgrade the GPU, & consider larger monitors (1080p, aka 1920x1080 resolution).
2. Keep the motherboard, upgrade to a higher AM3 CPU, upgrade the GPU, & get the larger monitors.
3. Replace the motherboards, CPUs, GPUs & monitors.
Optionally, for any of those, you could consider doubling the RAM if it's in the budget.

I would personally go with #1, but see if any local retailers still have AM3 processors in stock for #2 as a possibility. I would only consider #3 if you're actually having issues with the machines performing (i.e. BSODs, crashes, overheating, etc.).

laviniuc · Feb 4, 2015

may i say it again? add ssd drives, for internet browsing and loading games there will be a great improvement over conventional hdd-s.

edit: the system itself will "feel" much faster even though everything inside is the same.

edit2: what psu-s do you have inside? that's what will dictate what graphics cards you can upgrade to.

d1versify · Feb 4, 2015

@spdragoo Thanks for the detailed answer and effort you made

So the best solution is to upgrade GPUs? We have 4 computers with 1080p monitors and they got worse performance in some games that the others who got the older 1440x900 monitors. So buying monitors and a newer GPU will be ok?

d1versify · Feb 4, 2015

laviniuc :

some 500w but cheap ones though

spdragoo · Feb 4, 2015

Yes, definitely, no matter what else you do, upgrade the GPUs.

d1versify · Feb 4, 2015

spdragoo :

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106-6.html

Your CPU is currently 4th tier, but that's not necessarily bad. Given what the customers are using them for, & that your gamers aren't having any issues, you probably don't need to worry about a CPU upgrade. If you absolutely must, realize that your board is apparenly only a Socket AM3 (not Socket AM3+) (http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/M4A79XTD_EVO/specifications/), so the FX-series CPUs are out. If you can find some, however, you could upgrade to the 975/980 (quad) or even 1090T/1100T (hexa) Phenom IIs, which would put you up into 2nd tier. However, unless you're really seeing some slowdown you don't need it. And, as was pointed out, switching to Intel from AMD would involve switching motherboards, which makes it even more expensive.

RAM-wise, you should be fine. Too much past 1333MHz, & you start getting diminishing returns for the extra cost. Plus, dual sticks means you should be operating in dual-channel mode. However, if you wanted to, a small boost might be possible by doubling the RAM (4x4GB) on the PCs.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

If you really want a boost, especially for your gamers, this is where you can do it. The current GPUs are 12th-tier, & probably could stand to be upgraded. Even going to AMD's R7 260X or nVidia's GTX 750Ti would boost you up to 9th-tier. The R7 is cheaper ($125 vs. $150), but the 750Ti uses less power (recommended 300W PSU vs. 500W), so whichever works best for your setup. If you have the cash, another possibility would be either the GTX 960 ($210, needs 450W PSU) or R9 280 ($216, needs 500W PSU); both cards are considered 6th-tier, & would be solid upgrades for some time.

A GPU like this

http://

is a lot better than the gtx 650? Or just a minor improvement? I can't really tell how you compare two video cards sorry

Karsten75 · Feb 4, 2015

d1versify :

Tom's has a video card tier list that is a rough guide.:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

Passmark.com has comprehensive benchmarking data:

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/

You can use those cards to compare various GPUs against one another in the benchmarking scenarios.

game-debate lists game performance by game and system,

notebookcheck.net has some, but mostly mobile with game benchmarks at various settings and resolutions.

d1versify · Feb 5, 2015

Thanks a lot guys for everything, since this is a major investment for a time like this so I had to be extra careful.
I think I am going for a GPU upgrade and cheap 1080p monitors!
I hope this will work fine
Thanks very very much!

spdragoo · Feb 5, 2015

@d1versify:

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1044?vs=1125

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1130?vs=1125

Definite improvement going from the GTX 650 to the R7 260X (1st link) or GTX 750Ti (2nd link).

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1332?vs=1125

Unfortunately, they didn't have the GTX 960, but they did have the R9 280. They didn't have a lot of comparitive game benchmarks, however, because of the difference in tiers. However, the R7 & 750Ti are in the first 2 of the following links, & the R9 and 750Ti are in the 3rd link:

http://anandtech.com/bench/GPU14/934

http://anandtech.com/bench/GPU14/933

http://anandtech.com/bench/GPU14/931

d1versify · Feb 5, 2015

Thanks a lot ! 20 fps boost was what I was hoping for despite the minor upgrade!
I think I am going for the r7 260x since it's cheaper! thanks a lot

Upgrading in an Internet Cafe

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