A Little Upgrading Help For A New Gamer

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CynicalShark

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Hey guys i have a little challenge for you...

I just bought a cheap little gaming desktop and I plan on upgrading it so that it can support next gen games at med-high settings. I got a free game with the PC (Thief) and on the lowest settings I can only get the FPS to around 10-15 and i was honestly expecting more (40+) from my so called 'Gaming PC'. I would like a tutorial or guide of what to do / buy for my PC that will enable me to play games such as Battlefield 4 etc.

As my PC has an integrated graphics, it has no graphics card and i believe getting one will greatly improve my gaming experience but when i measured the space; I had a problem that there is only room for an 8.5" graphics card before it will hit the back of the HDD... I could move the HDD down a slot (Increasing the size to just under 11") if that will help or even move it to the top of the case with an adapter but i would need instructions and link of where to buy things.

*Additional Info* - I have a basic understanding of IT but am still a bit of a n00b concerning this so please be thorough and direct (Not just: "ya need to get a *blah* with *blah* and *blah*") I would like specific links please and an explanation so I can learn from it all.

Oh and I'm also on a budget; hence the cheap start, so please avoid things in the thousands, I would prefer not to spend too much on this but I do want a decent PC so... No specified budget but please keep that in mind.

... One more FINAL thing (if this is important): I would like to be able to have the use of 3 screens (My PC is able to do that at the moment but I'm guessing a graphics card upgrade will need to have that ability too?)

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My PC specs (Not sure what you need but will include all i can think of):

- MSI MS-7721
- Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
- 1 x 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM
- AMD A8-6600K APU (Quad core) with Radeon HD graphics (8570D)
- A78M-E35 Motherboard
- 500W PSU

(Not sure if you need these 4 below)
- Standard 1TB HDD
- Standard CD/DVD reader
- Total available graphics memory 4194 MB
- Dedicated graphics memory 768 MB (Will increasing this improve gaming performance?)
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Thank you so much in advance and if you need any more information please just ask,

Ryan
 
Solution
Math Geek
your power supply is going to be the limiting factor for what card you can get. i am going to assume it is not worth reusing and needs to be replaced since this is the norm for prebuilt systems. the integrated gpu is not bad but not a gaming level gpu by any means. here are a few options to show what you can do with what budget. you say triple monitors but is this for gaming or just for normal use? triple monitor gaming will bring most any card to its knees in gaming. so anywhere here are a few choices. you'll want to move that hdd down to allow for a longer card since new ones are not usually very short.

great starting point for 1080p gaming. mid to high settings at 1080p for a single monitor easily

PCPartPicker part list /...
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HDMI703

HDMI703

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increasing your grpahics memory will help alot
 
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CynicalShark

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How would I go about this? and how much is too much/little?

I am under the impression to never go above half of your total and it is done in the BIOS but I'm really not sure how?
 
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Eximo

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APU shares system memory with the onboard graphics. Usually you want that memory to be as fast as possible. Right now you only have a single 1x8GB stick which is not ideal. 1600Mhz is a more or less standard speed these days. That APU can handle memory up to about 2400Mhz reliably.

I believe the idea is to select a video card. But you need to set a budget. Can drop $1000 on a single GPU quite easily.

Most mid-range GPUs are usually 10.5" long, so moving your hard drive would really open things up.

The power supply is a bit of a question mark. 500W is nice to know, but that can mean many different things depending on who actually made it. If it is a older style low-quality part that will limit the top end of which GPUs you can safely power. If it is a decent power supply, you can run nearly any single GPU.

 
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dbpower

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My opinion for your problem is to go with a GTX 960...it's new with great performance...it will cover your demadings for sure,without a problem in the next years...its price is around 199$
 
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Math Geek

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your power supply is going to be the limiting factor for what card you can get. i am going to assume it is not worth reusing and needs to be replaced since this is the norm for prebuilt systems. the integrated gpu is not bad but not a gaming level gpu by any means. here are a few options to show what you can do with what budget. you say triple monitors but is this for gaming or just for normal use? triple monitor gaming will bring most any card to its knees in gaming. so anywhere here are a few choices. you'll want to move that hdd down to allow for a longer card since new ones are not usually very short.

great starting point for 1080p gaming. mid to high settings at 1080p for a single monitor easily

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 280 3GB Dual-X Video Card ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($43.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $203.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-06 13:47 EST-0500

high/ultra 1080p and good dual monitor performance in game

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 290 4GB Double Dissipation Video Card ($239.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($43.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $283.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-06 13:48 EST-0500

dual/triple monitor performance and 1440p easily this way

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($326.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($43.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $370.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-06 13:50 EST-0500

there are options between these but this is pretty much the basic levels. the 290x is little more than the 290 and would be a good option but would need a bigger power supply since it is very power hungry at 300w.

edit: if you wish to reuse the psu then a gtx 960 would probably be the best card since it is low power and similar to the r9-280 in performance but a lot less power usage. it would run fine on the stock 500w psu you have.
 
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CynicalShark

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wow thanks for all the quick replies but would a simple graphics card and power supply be enough for me to support top games... and yes i was planning on triple screen gaming...
 
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Math Geek

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yes the gpu is the most important part of gaming. the cpu is important but not as important as the gpu. triple monitor gaming at 1080p or higher is very hard on the gpu and the 970 would be the minimum for a decent experience at ultra settings on the newest games. a gtx 980 would be a better option for that role. they do run around $600 though. the cpu will begin to bottleneck the card at this point however and the a10 cpu is not the strongest out there but not junk either.

the 280/960 would probably be able to handle triple 1080p at mid to high settings in newer games and give you around 50 fps from benchmarks i have seen. it would get better as you go up the gpu power chain. this seems like your basic goal. and a 960 as already said would run on the psu you have now for basically the cheapest upgrade option at around $200. the better options would only give better fps at higher settings at triple 1080p.
 
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CynicalShark

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So as the cheapest option to get the job done what do you suggest specifically? (what would you do if you was in my situation?)
 
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Math Geek

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if i was wanting triple monitor set-up i would get the strongest gpu i could to ensure it would last. lower end would do now but will quickly not be enough to maintain. to avoid buying a new card in the near future i would get the 970 for a bit of future proofing. this should give you 2 years at least with slowly lowered settings before you want to upgrade again. a 960 would give you at most a year before you found yourself compromising a lot. lowering settings or removing monitors wold be in the near future for that card.

that is what i would do myself in your shoes to ensure the best triple 1080p gaming i could ask for at a good value.
 
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Math Geek

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memory size is important at higher resolution and multiple monitors. you can't compare the clock speed between amd and nvidia as the chips are very different. you can of course compare clock speed within the same gpu. for instance the 970's come in at 950 mhz to over 1.2 ghz in clock speed and of course the faster card is higher performing. the evga 970 ftw edition is a super oc'ed card with room more more of an oc and it has great cooling to support it but they are at the high end of 970 pricing and almost $400
 
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CynicalShark

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Okay I'm happy to do that but could you link me to the 970 you are talking about... there are lots of different ones i can find with all different sizes and connections. Thanks again, you've been amazing :)
 
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Math Geek

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PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB SSC ACX 2.0 Video Card ($339.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($43.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $383.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-06 14:32 EST-0500

in my opinion one of the best 970's and you will want a better psu for it since it will be at the high end for power usage being super overclocked. should pull close to 200w for this card.
 
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Math Geek

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sorry had i known i would have tailored the picks to uk pricing. but yah it will have 4 outputs so it will support triple monitors. just be sure it has the right combination of outputs for you. i don't know what monitors you have and what inputs it needs. most will have dual dvi, 1 hdmi and 1 display port but some have other combinations. i can't go to amazon to see about that card specifically. my pc hates amazon and will crash as soon as i hit enter and it reads amazon.

just check the specs for what inputs it has and be sure it is the right combo for you.

edit: that card has what i thought it would. 2 dvi, 1 hdmi and 1 display port so it can run 4 monitors with those outputs. forgot my phone would see it and not crash :)
 
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RobCrezz

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Your APU will hold back cards like the gtx 970 or r9 290 quite a lot.

Something like the GTX 960 would be a good upgrade for you and should be fine with your current PSU.

Your current system build could have been much better. If the builder had used 2x 4gb (you get double bandwidth if you run dual channel) DDR3 1866mhz or higher you would be getting quite a bit better performance. The APU doesnt have fast DDR5 like most graphics cards, so it heavily rely s on you having fast system ram for the integrated gpu cores.

Your gains would be higher as your are only single channel, but you can see here the improvments fast ram has on APUS
BF3Mid.png



That said, if you get a graphics card, you dont need to worry about system ram speed quite a much, it makes a lot less difference.
 
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Math Geek

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i have not seen anything to suggest the 970 would be held back "a lot" but the a10. from what i have seen it would take a 980 to start seeing major bottlenecking. i suggest the 970 due to the triple monitor use. the 960 is just not going to be enough power for any serious triple monitor gaming set-up for very long. would hate to suggest a 960 and then 6 months from now, he is regretting it and wanting more. for single monitor i'd be all over the 960 as well.
 
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RobCrezz

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This test is using a GTX 680 which is worse than a 970, and it can bottleneck this A10 (which is actually better than the ops A8):

CPU_03.png
 
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Math Geek

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my understanding of the a8 is that it is essentially an x4-750k with a gpu attached. (actually offer slightly better single core performance than the 750k) i am not in front of my pc to look up data but i am pretty sure that cpu has been paired with all kinds of gpu's with little issues. this is what i am basing my thoughts on. i can look some up later but i am pretty sure i have this paired with the 970 and such cards will little performance impact.

that chart is interetsing and different than anything i have seen before. where does it come from? can you link the whole article for me.
 
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