What's actually better? Water or Air cooling?

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TTD187

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I've read in many places that the best cooling option is the NH-D14 and that is what I use with my PC, however, I seem to be falling a little short when it comes to stable overclocks, I think topping out at 4.5Ghz and even then, I never bothered to do a great test and kept it down to 4.2Ghz (I do know it'll run stable at 4.4Ghz however).

I think the only information I've actually found on the NH-D14 was that it does keep the CPU cooler, but I've read in many places and watched a lot of videos that suggest water cooling will allow for higher clock speeds because increasing the voltage is somehow easier with them.

Is this the case that the air cooled D14 will keep the CPU at a lower temperature than a water cooler, but a water cooler will allow for higher clocks and volts overall?

For information (If it's useful), my temperatures at 4.2Ghz seem to top at 55 degrees, however, there was one time one core reached 59.
 
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4Ryan6
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Mr5oh

Mr5oh

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After loosing a PC to a faulty water cooler, I went back to air. Cooler will generally allow more of a over clock, however with your temps I don't think "cooler" will gain you much. My 4690K seems to stop at 4.4 Ghz, it's prime 95 stable there, but I haven't had any luck going further. Of course I didn't want to turn up the voltage any more. That's with a 212 EVO. Just luck of the draw sometimes on overclocking chips.
 
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TTD187

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What are your temps at 4.4 Ghz? I don't actually remember where mine reached. I have tried increasing the voltages, but it seems to not matter where they reach. Once at 4.4 Ghz (Maybe 4.5), it seems to not matter how much voltage I give it, there's just no desire to reach any higher.

I once accidentally crapped my PC up by deciding to jump to 1.3V at 4.7 Ghz. It wouldn't even boot to BIOS, so I had to remove the CMOS chip >.< I learnt my lesson there!

What I wonder though, is will water cooling allow for higher stable overclocks? Or is that only when going through Custom loops or really depending on the amount of bullying my chip experienced in the playground?
 
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theunliked

theunliked

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If I were you I would just leave it where it is now. Water cooling does help though. My 4690k + evo 212 gets upto 65C when running prime95.
 
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chrisITguy

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A high quality air cooler (such as Noctua NH-D14) will do just fine and come within ~10 degrees of any water cooling system. This setup will even outpace most closed loop liquid coolers. The pros far outweigh the cons on a quality air setup vs water cooling.

Tomshardware has MANY quality written article s involving real world stats on comparing coolers.
 
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bmacsys

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That is what you get when you pair a $240 cpu with a cheapo $35 cooler. Makes no sense.
 
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synphul

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If heat were the only limiting factor then water cooling would be more effective. Talking in terms of an actual built water cooling loop with a 240-360 sized radiator (to be able to run fans at a bit lower speed and still maintain excellent cooling). Pump, res, rad(s) etc. Cost effectiveness? Not so sure about that, custom water cooling can get pricey. But it's also fun (for those into it) and gives a much different look, offers more custom options etc.

A decent air cooler like the nh-d14 is plenty. Even if heat is kept under control, running too high of a vcore can be harmful. Each chip is different, some 4690k's cap out at 4.4ghz, others 4.6ghz, others 4.8ghz. When they cap out, you'll notice where it might be taking very little vcore to reach the next multiplier, all of the sudden it will take a lot more voltage to reach the next. Between 1.2 and 1.27 I can go up to 4-4.6ghz. Try to get 4.7 with a multiplier of 47 and it wants more like 1.34-1.35v vcore. That's a healthy jump in voltage just to reach the next level so I stopped and backed it off to 4.6.

When your system wouldn't even boot at 4.7 at 1.3v vcore, chances are you didn't have enough voltage and it just failed to boot. I don't know if there's anything set in stone (intel hasn't listed anything to my knowledge) but many agree 1.4 is about the max you want to go for safety and even then it's a bit on the higher side. More suitable for enthusiasts or people who don't mind chancing a reduction in chip life. Myself I prefer 1.3 tops and less if possible but that's playing it a bit more conservative.
 
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TTD187

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I had actually attempted 4.7 Ghz at 1.2V before and it managed to boot, although it did blue screen before I managed to log in, so that's why I thought it was too high voltage.
 
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synphul

synphul

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The blue screen was probably a good indication of not being stable. Saw a couple people mention 4690k, but unless I'm missing it (possible) not sure exactly what cpu you're running TTD187. If it's the 4690k, at 4.7 I would think 1.3v for the vcore would be more reasonable as a starting point. It may work, you may be able to slowly lower the vcore and test and find a lower compatible voltage (fine tuning). It may not work and may need more like 1.32 or 1.34 vcore, but that's getting toward what I would consider the safer upper limits (still higher than I'd prefer to run). Just depends on what you're comfortable with. Pro or extremely seasoned oc'ers may push past 1.4 vcore but that's something I'm not comfortable with and don't feel comfortable even suggesting it to others just in case (obviously overclocking comes with inherent risks to a degree).
 
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4Ryan6

4Ryan6

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Air cooling using a heat pipe air cooler like the stock Noctua NH-D14 has it's overclock limitations, that cooling performance can be increased by replacing the stock cooling fans to more powerful 120mm fans in the 110cfm output range or higher.

The Noctua NH-D14 is competitive with the lower to mid level of the AIO CPU Water Coolers but the higher end AIO coolers pull past the Noctua cooling performance.

The problem when overclocking is the trade off of increasing the CPU Voltage vs increased CPU load temperature, and that cooling capability is limited by the amount of cooling dissipation field, a heat pipe air cooler only has so much heat dissipation field and cannot be added to.

Custom water cooling pretty much allows covering the needed cooling dissipation field by adding additional radiator cooling area, expanding the system to cover the extra cooling need.

It amazes me today the old stigma fears of water cooling leaks which have long since been addressed to bring it down to simple installer errors of the water cooling setup.

The most important question is where are you satisfied with your overclocking will you settle for the limitations the Noctua NH-D14 comes with or expand your cooling to reach higher overclock numbers and push the limits, that's your choice as expanding your cooling capabilities cost money.

The link below should help your understanding but never take for granted how your ambient room temperature and case airflow affects your cooling, because no matter whether it is a heat pipe air cooler like your Noctua, or a full blown custom water cooling setup, you are still air cooling!

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2196038/air-cooling-water-cooling-things.html

 
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Mr5oh

Mr5oh

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I lost my 3570k machine to a closed loop system that was up and running for almost a year. RAM, Motherboard, wireless card, GPU, and PSU.

While it might be rare, I went back to air cooling. Even with a "cheapo" $35 cooler. What does spending more get me? Nothing in this case, the 212 keeps my 4690K cool enough when overclocked and the temps at full load are still well below any sort of danger zone for the CPU.

There is no reason for me to keep my CPU any cooler. Would it maybe live longer if it were cooler, maybe. Do I plan on having the same processor for the next 10 years, not a chance. So it can run 5-10 C hotter than some exspensive heat sink, makes no difference to me.
 
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4Ryan6

4Ryan6

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What was the "closed loop system" you're referring to?

"RAM, Motherboard, wireless card, GPU, and PSU"

It is extremely unusual that anyone would loose that much hardware because of a leak, not saying it isn't possible just very rare, unless the leak went directly into the power supply itself and it blew taking those other components with it?

Is that what happened?

I've had many leaks since I've been water cooling and never lost any hardware from them, usually cleaning up the leak and drying the affected component was all that was needed.

I do think the actual coolant itself can be an effective deterrent to any hardware loss as I only use 100% Steam Distilled water, where as many AIO coolers use various types of additives to their coolant, many being electrically conductive.

 
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