hyper 212 evo installed without backplate (NEED ADVICE & HELP) (UPDATE)

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Owambo

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Hi guys. So i bought a pc ( i chose the parts) but they offerrd to buildit for free. So they did that but when i recieved the pc they also gave my morherboard box containing discs for software etc and i found the backplate for hyper 212 evo there. As my case has no windows (400r) and they built it (limited warranty) i cant check if there is a backplate on the 212 evo installed (as i dint think i can open the case without breaking warranty) so i was wondering is it at all possible to install said cooler without the use of the backplate? The mobo is a gigabyte hd3 z97

Update: Ok i found out it doesn't break warranty to open the rear panel of the case so i opened it and found that as expected, the 212 evo was installed WITHOUT the backplate. I also saw there was very limited room between the backscrews / standoffs of the cooler and the back of the case (where u put the mobo not the rear panel i took off). From the looks of it the backplate cannot fit in this space so i assume thats why they didn't install it as although the rear panel provides extra space the motherboard cutout doesn't give space for 2 of the standoffs to have access to this extra space (as the cutout was made in such a way that only 2 of the cooler standoffs are exposed by the cutout). Back to the point, I must ask that as the cooler seems sturdily installed without said backplate, is it safe / ok for me to have it without the backplate and also is it going to give me problems down the line?
 
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Karadjgne
In other words, he was too lazy to do the job right by removing the mobo first, then installing the heatsink, so made up a be story about too thick mobo to cover his ass
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bigpinkdragon286

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I would suspect the back plate is going to prevent the motherboard from warping over time due to the stress from the weight of the cooler. Without the back plate, the motherboard may fail at some unknown time in the future. I don't have experience with this cooler, or heavy coolers without back plates, so I can only speculate here.
 
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Karadjgne

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You need the backplate to be installed correctly. At the very least, its job is similar to a giant washer, so without it, its very likely that sooner or later, the top 2 screws will pull out of the motherboard, destroying it. It also acts as a load spreader, absorbing the tension of the downward force created by the length of the tower outward from the cpu. Hold 5lbs close to your body, can do that all day long, take that same 5lbs at full arm length, and in a couple minutes your shoulder's gonna start hurting. Same principle.

Have someone else, qualified, reinstall the cooler properly. Unfortunately, this was most definitely a case of 'you got what you paid for'. Sorry.
 
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Owambo

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Ok so what I did was I called the store that built it and they directed me to the 2 engineers who built the pc and they told me that the cpu cooler screws were not long enough to be passed through both the retension arms, motherboard, backplate and standoffs and he said that they tried many times to do it but it was physically not possible and they said it may be because the motherboard was too thick and that this is because over the years motherboards build quality increased and in oversight this is the reason for the motherboard thickness. So the screws have to pass through more motherboard than they should and to compensate for this they took out the backplate. Also he said the cpu cooler was built a while ago and that it was build for old Intel and AMD mobos and that the screw lengths were not updated as the cpu cooler was very good and it was made under the pretense (if its not broke don't fix it) . These guys are qualified chinese engineers and said this problem has happened alot with people who have bought said cpu cooler and that i'm not the only one. They assured me that the backplate is used to balance the motherboard from the cpu cooler and that it is ok without it. Despite this I asked what if the cpu cooler fell off the mobo and landed on my gpu which is directly under it. They said that my 1 year warranty will cover it and that if this happens after the 1 year warranty I'll be charged for repairs, Or I could extend the warranty. BTW I will keeping the comp for 4 years before replacing it so I hope I'll be good.
 
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4745454b

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Again, the screws attach themselves to the backplate. If it's not there, did they say what they attached the screws to then? (the backplate acts as the nuts.) Without the backplate there I don't see what keeps the heatsink on.

I'm using the 212+ (older version of the EVO.) with a Z77 board. You might have an odd thicker board, but modern boards should handle this just fine.
 
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USAFRet

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No. They are just blowing smoke.

For the CPU cooler mount spaces, there are just holes in the motherboard. You can't screw the cooler into the motherboard surface, no matter what cooler it is.
Stock cooler have a 2 pronged springy thing, that goes through the holes. Anything else needs to be screwed into something. The backplate.

I have the 212+ as well, and there is no way to connect it without the backplate.
 
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Karadjgne

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Here's the thing with the hyper212 mounting system. It's a pain in the ass, no 2 ways about it. What does need to happen is adjustment if the center screw. Before mounting.

Those 'qualified' Chinese engineers are lying to you. What they have done is found a way that makes mounting the 212 simpler, and less of a pain, which makes it faster. Considering they mounted it for free, and time is money, they did it as cheap (fast) as possible, which means they cheated you, as well as lied to you and blamed motherboard thickness? Lol, what a joke.

This should help.

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2520482/solving-temperature-issues-hyper-212-evo.html
 
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USAFRet

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OK, here it is.
This is the backside of the motherboard, with the 212+ mount plate, with the included screws and nuts.
oFwAfYq.jpg


Gigabyte Z77 motherboard, 212 PLUS cooler, all stock parts.
The only way a "thicker motherboard" would prevent using the backplate is if it were literally twice as thick. Which whatever you have...isn't.

I suppose you could dispense with the backplate and just use the nuts, maybe. But thereby greatly lessening the stability of the thing.
 
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Karadjgne

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Ouch. If they have directly screwed the nuts to the motherboard, without the plate, its a wonder they have not destroyed the integrity of that ultra thin resin coating protecting the circuits going to the cpu. Doing it that way with no protection from the nuts rotational torque is asking for a dead short and a totally fried cpu and motherboard.

Absolutely impossible for your motherboard to be too thick to mount the backplate. Your motherboard would have to be 6mm thick or greater, for those stock screws to not be long enough to get threads started.

Their excuse is a bunch of crap. I'd have someone else fix this, and go through the entire pc, just to make sure everything else they touched is good.
 
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Owambo

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"they said it may be because the motherboard was too thick and that this is because over the years motherboards build quality increased and in oversight this is the reason for the motherboard thickness." - Ok soz guys that part I kinda said to them as my explanation, they didn't really respond to it but the rest is what they said and they were adamant about the screw length dilemma. I got some pics to show what it looks like in my case

http://postimg.org/image/o8msa8bb9/d77107a6/
http://postimg.org/image/ngh6gt79n/d4342e6e/
http://postimg.org/image/3ox43brjr/4f30b65c/
http://postimg.org/image/788rcb0wl/03e3afca/

from these pics we can see that the nuts are applied directly on the mobo, and that part of it is not available via the cutout. Also this space is very thin and as you can see in the backplate comparison the backplate is much thicker than this space, I tried fitting it through but it just won't fit and as i try to force it, it makes alot of scratching noises which doesn't sound assuring. I think thats what they mean't by it being physically impossible for them to fit a backplate in there. If you guys can find me a pic of the cutout of the 400r with the hyper 212 evo backplate then rest assured I know it is possible to use the backplate but if not then its obvious that the case itself will not allow me, them or anyone to put a 212 evo with backplate onto the mobo. As you guys said the mobo thickness is negligible. So please guys i need photo evidence before i attempt to do anything. The screw length thingy may be false but I can't check as the other side panel has a warranty sticker preventing me from opening it.
 
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4745454b

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I hope they used plastic washers (which I'm assuming they did seeing as you don't have the problem.) or else the metal plate will short the motherboard. It should work with the 400R. I almost went with that or the 500R before I got the HAF XM. What they did is very odd.
 
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Karadjgne

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As I said, the mount is a pain in the ass. This is what they did. Mounted the nuts directly to the mobo, no plastic/Teflon washers. If you take a real good look at the last pic, you can see that there are nut threads showing. I'd estimate those screws are @4mm too short. The motherboard was mounted first, and when they tried to install the cooler, they couldn't get the nuts under the gap with the screws present, so your stock screws were replaced with shorter ones, or there is washers on the top of the cooler mount where there isn't supposed to be, in order to shorten the screw length in back.

I've never heard of anyone enclosing the case with a warranty sticker, the case is designed to be user accessible for cleaning/replacement/upgrades that has nothing to do with any warranty on the builders part. That sticker is extremely fishy. It was probably put there to hide the unusual screws/washers mounting the cooler. Considering you seem to be honest enough not to question their claims to being a warranty issue, I'd not be at all surprised at present if you don't have a real hyper212, but some cheap knock off with a genuine box/parts.

My advice stands. Have someone else do the job right, break the seal and verify you actually got what you paid for etc, and verify that you are not being cheated by someone relying on your integrity not to open a warranty sticker.
 
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Owambo

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Ok thanks guys, I don't actually know if it prevents me from opening or if its simply to advertise they built it cuz the retail guy said i could build in it, just i'm unsure as they never told me anything about a sticker, the 212 evo is real as I bought it from a legit store. So about the nut threads showing, does this mean that my motherboard is gonna get shorted or something or is it still safe to use? As the store (which is the biggest electronics retailer in nz) told me that if i ask them to rebuild it, they'll still not use the backplate cuz they simply can't do it apparently. Idk if they used teflon / plastic washers I never asked (is there any way to check?) but I reiterate, this store isn't dodgy per say but these guys seemed to have had a genuine problem about this as they said most times they can use the backplate (as per the manual) and in other instances they physically couldn't. So can you guys please answer my 2 questions in here and if u guys have a pic of a corsair 400r cutout with hyper 212 evo backplate installed then that would be really great cuz I need more info before I can do something about this.
 
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Owambo

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Also if they used different screws than what was included with the pc (As I gave them the parts bought from their store (they are legit parts btw)) then I can't actually use the original screws and they literally use whats their and only include discs, manuals and modular power cables in the mobo box (no screws) so if I give it to a diff person to check and build then they will have to use their owns screws. I think what I'll have to do is ask them what they used, but they may not remember so guys pls answer the questions from my post above so I'll be prepared when i ask them
 
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Karadjgne

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From the pic, if you zoom in tight, what you'll see is that the nut makes direct contact with the motherboard. If the underlying section of pc is a single trace, then that'll be ok, as the nut will only make contact with a single source. If the other nuts happen to cross multiple traces that can definitely cause a short, as some of those traces are grounding circuits, and the rest are data or voltage traces and are separate for a reason.

It's possible to mount the backplate, it just has to be done in a specific manner. The tabs of the backplate will be inside the cutout. The backplate itself needs to be outside, so the thing needs to be installed in the hole before the motherboard is installed.

If it comes down to it, just make the stupid hole bigger. That entire area is totally unimportant to anything other than stiffness of the motherboard supporting standoffs, and in more than a few cases that hole is much larger, as you can see in USAFret's posted picture, making this a really moot point. People do it all the time in cars when they want to add a 6.5" door speaker in a 5.25" hole. Trim a little metal with a rotary Dremel tool. Won't hurt a thing.
 
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Owambo

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Thnx guys for the links but in in them we see that the cpu is in the middle so installing the cooler wudnt be a proble but what i dont get is why in my mobo pic the coolr standoffs are partially covered by the cutout and half of the cutout is just open space like the board doesnt cover the whole cutout cuz thats whats preventing rhe backplate installation (oops didn't realise i didnt post a pic of that but trust me like a bit over a quarter of the cutout is not covered by the mobo, far more than the other pics of atx boards you guys showed me) It seems it just happens that with my mobo the standoff placements are a bit to close to the rear io. prob cuz of lack of a heatsink on the left of cpu
 
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Owambo

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In response to karadjgne: So when u mean traces do u mean like the straight lines going thru the mobo that sometimes come in pairs. And that if they arent covering any traces then i shud be good? Cuz if so then its settled as i csn just get an aio liquid cooler down line and stico with this for a while because if its relatively ok then im good with that

I mean like the lines that go thru the mobo that a bit lighter in colour than actual mobo and they look like a race track from tron (soz for only way i can explain them) you know what i mean
 
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