First Build i7 4790k/i5 4690k - Need help picking out MOBO and memory

SpetsnazBeaver

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Hi, my old HP's motherboard got busted due to a fan cpu error that wouldn't even allow me to pass anymore so I decided to build a new PC. The hardware I already have and want to transfer over is:
- Rosewill Armor Evo case with 6 fans
- Coolermaster Hyper 212 EVO cooler
- ASUS GTX 660 (non ti or oc)
- Thermaltake600W 80+ Bronze PSU
- possibly some memory sticks I could carry over (the HP had 3x2GB and 3x1GB sticks DDR3-1066) though I am open to replace memory completely

My needs:
- Work (I'm a business student) but also a lot for gaming on a single 1050p 60hz monitor most games maxed out more or less (aa can be downed).
- Keep at least 8GB RAM either with all new memory or re using some 2x2GB sticks+ rest new
- Either i7 4790k or i5 4690k. Both use the same socket so the same motherboard can be used for either one I assume? The only difference other than clocks is apparently hyperthreading which correct me if I'm wrong only really helps with intensive stuff like rendering/mining not games. My HP was an i7 920 rig.
- SLI support for future
- Z97 chipset motherboard since apparently that will still be supported for at least one more cpu gen?
-Looks don't matter

There is so much choice I don't know where to begin. What would be my best options for motherboard and memory? Not too cheap so that there are good features on top of above mentioned reqs. Total package CPU+MOBO+RAM not more than $800s but hopefully lower.
 
Solution
Spending $800 is easy and you probably don't need to spend that much. How much would you like to acually spend? If you want to spend $800 then get this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor ($385.33 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI X99S SLI Plus ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($171.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Value 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($165.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $723.30
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-04-19 21:45 EDT-0400

Your PC will laugh at everything you throw at it. May need a nicer PSU though. What you SHOULD ACTUALLY get...

IamTimTech

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Spending $800 is easy and you probably don't need to spend that much. How much would you like to acually spend? If you want to spend $800 then get this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor ($385.33 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI X99S SLI Plus ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($171.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Value 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($165.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $723.30
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-04-19 21:45 EDT-0400

Your PC will laugh at everything you throw at it. May need a nicer PSU though. What you SHOULD ACTUALLY get to serve your purposes.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($226.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Asus Z97-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($134.99 @ NCIX US)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($129.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $491.96
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-04-19 21:48 EDT-0400

and even that is overkill
 
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SpetsnazBeaver

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A big chunk of the total is the processor at around $300 for i5 and $420 for i7 leaving the rest for mobo and ram
 

IamTimTech

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You really don't NEED an i7 but considering that you are still coming in under budget if you get the i7 4790k I would say upgrade to that. Get yourself the 2133Mhz Ram listed because even though it is overkill the cas latency is super low and with the i7 and it and the Z97 A you will be able to learn to do some serious overclocking in the future
 

IamTimTech

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Mine has a good point. With either of the listed options SLI is now an option. I tend to say get the 2011-3 socket build because the last 2011 socket was still being used right up until the revision came out. With DDR4 and the gains on silicone slowing I don't think you will have to replace the system for years to come.
 

SpetsnazBeaver

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Thanks for all the help. So i5 vs i7 is swappable depending on how much I end up paying. Is it worth upgrading to x99, ddr4 and 5820k given how new and untested these are compared to z97, ddr3 and devil's canyon? I heard the advantage of ddr4 vs ddr3 is debatable and we don't know about x99/2011-3 future. Also is the 6 core overkill or will the next few years shift towards optimizing for 6 or 8 core over 4 core? How much RAM is really needed? Are the $200 range mobos not worth it? I heard slower ram slows down faster ram so you think I should just toss the old ram?
 

IamTimTech

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The future of the 2011-3 socket to me is fairly predictable due to the success of the original 2011 socket. This is the enthusiast chipset, the general understanding is that when you pay for the enthusiast chipset it will come with a few quirks, but your hardware is going to have a longer life cycle than the consumer hardware. The performance is undeniably better as well.

1150 is being replaced, and the gains are minimal. The 1151 socket is going to accept DDR4 or DDR3L dimms. A new ddr3 dimm instead of all the dimms that we all already have? No thanks. This reminds me of the hybrid 775 boards that could take either 2 dimms of ddr3 or 2 dimms of ddr2 but not both. I don't think 1151 is going to be a socket that sticks around and I see a lot of people staying with and recommending 1150 until it becomes cost prohibitive. This makes the more budget option a compelling choice. If you really want to get something that will do the work it is supposed to for some time to come then all you need is the 1150 socket. If you have the money and you're feeling frisky there are worse buys than the 2011-3 socket, it's a powerhouse.

I would toss the old ram into an old machine someday but leave it out of your new build. With 1150 2xGB 1866Mhz Cas Latency 9 dimms are all you need, feeling frisky score the 2133Mhz with a cas of 9 or 10.

With 2011 you are just going to get 4x4GB because 16GB is still enough and DDR4 is going to get much cheaper later. You want 4 dimms to take advantage of quad channel, especially if you SLI those 660's.

I'm actually going to change my recommended parts for the 2011-3. The parts I listed above are specific to a custom build I am working on. I wanted solid black and intended to fabricate my own heatsinks thus the value ram. For the average build I would say go with something more like these RAM modules:

http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/compare/gskill-memory-f42400c14q16grk%2Cgskill-memory-f42400c15q16grr/

The board I chose isn't the best board either, again I chose it because it is solid black. These boards are all good options depending on your budget:
http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/compare/asus-motherboard-x99deluxe%2Casus-motherboard-x99pro%2Cmsi-motherboard-x99sgaming7%2Cmsi-motherboard-x99ssliplus/

 

SpetsnazBeaver

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Thanks for the 2011-3 reccomendation but I'm kind of split on this. The only mobo I would be willing to buy for 2011-3 is the MSI X99S SLI Plus. I'm in Canada so our prices are higher. What are this board's disadvantages compared to its more expensive brethren? Otherwise, X97 is much more manageable. Is 2011-3, X99, DDR4 and 5820k proven enough? These are all first gen of this type of hardware. 1150, X97, DDR3 and 4790k/4690k seem to have a great reputation. Is the most current, semingly "future-proof" hardware really so superior to warrant the price. The only advantage I see other than the new tech is 3-4 way SLI
 

DubbleClick

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There really isn't much of a point in buying expensive motherboards if you don't know the differences. In general, they add a lot of features and a few more connectors (sata/usb), which you won't need or even have use for if you don't know them. Performance wise, you'll maybe see a 2-5% difference between the cheapest and the most expensive board existing.
X99: Great platform, but not cost efficient. It's a socket catering to enthusiasts who don't care about the price or people who use the pc for their work, such as video production or software fine-testing. In games, there won't be a benefit going from an I5 4590 to an I7 5960x.
DDR3 vs DDR4: They're equal in performance. An I7 5820k locked to 4 cores will perform within 1% average compared to an I7 4770 (closest in clockspeed).

As for overclocking on motherboards, between a 4 vrm phase board such as the asus z97-a or gigabyte z97x-sli and a 8-12 phase board such as the asus vii formula or gigabte ud5h, you most likely won't see a noticeable difference in overclocking potential. My I7 manages 5.0ghz application stable on a ud5h, with the z97x-sli crashing when applying any sort of work. Until 4.9ghz, they overclock exactly the same.

Therefore, as you mentioned that your primary focus is gaming (and "student work"), that looks aren't important to you and you probably would like to keep some money, my suggestion is the following:

-I5 4690k. As of right now, you haven't mentioned an application that would see benefit by hyperthreafing and 2mb extra l3 cache.
-z97x-sli. Has everything the asus z97-a has and is $30 cheaper. I don't see much reason to choose the z97-a, tbh. If at all, the z97-ar due to the nice look.
-8gb of 2133/2400mhz cas 9/10 ram. That is, if it goes for equal prices as 1866mhz cl9 ram in canada too. You could keep the 2x2gb and get another 2x2gb as well, but 1033mhz is a little slow (haswell tends to show great responsiveness until 1866mhz) I'd suggest getting new ram here. If you feel like you may want to get another 8gb later, make sure to buy a single 8gb stick now (and another of the same kind!!! later).
 

SpetsnazBeaver

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Update: I'm basically sold on 1150/Z97/i54690k. I want to be able to sli at some point, maybe even have the option to go triple sli. I also need as much fan headers as possible since my case comes blinged out with 6 fans and I want most if not all connected to mobo. Should I just not use my old ram sticks, I heard they would slow down my other, faster kit? Basically looking at getting a 2x4GB kit just not quite sure which one. Do you have a couple options you can think of cause I heard for instance asus is best mobo brand and which ram brands should I be looking at?
 

SpetsnazBeaver

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Currently looking at ASUS boards using partspicker price finder: z97-a (there's a more expensive usb 3.1 variant, not sure if it's worth it), z97 pro gamer, z97 sabertooth mark 2 and maximus hero VII. Alll of these seem very similar with barely any difference, am I wrong? Also looked at EVGA Z97 FTW but the ASUS boards seem to have more features?

I'll update on MSI and Gigabyte boards I narow down to. How are these boards so far?
 

DubbleClick

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As I said, more expensive motherboards tend to not add anything useful to the end user unless he has very specific requirements.
If they look similar to you now and you end up buying the sabertooth, you end up having spent $150 for nothing.

Triple sli is not possible on any z97 build.

The z97-a is, as mentioned a great board. It's just that the z97x-sli is basically the same for $25-$35 less.
 

SpetsnazBeaver

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It doesn't seem to have extra features like fanxpert3 and 5-Way Optimization by Dual Intelligent Processors 5. Are these actually just fancy names for features all boards have? The ASUS is still a beter pick atm since it has more fan headers for my 6 fans. I guess I kinda see the difference between each board in material quality and general build quality, I asssume that has an effect on overclockability? $150-200 is the perfect price bracket, I don't need to go complete cheapest. Haven't looked at MSI, Gigabyte yet but I heard BIOS is best on ASUS, then Gigabyte, then MSI.

What do you think of the EVGA Z97 FTW?
 

DubbleClick

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Fanxpert3 is software. That's not specific to a motherboard. "5 way optimization" does probably include automatic overclocking, which all boards provide. In any way, those are at best marketing jokes and not features. Features that are worth calling them features would be like a m.2 port (which both boards provide). Probably killer lan counts too, but there are no measureable differences so it's once again more of a marketing thing.
$200 boards do not give you better performance on the same settings than $100 boards. They can not even, as intels specifications for motherboards are very strict.
And then again, the motherboard plays a very little role for achieving stable overclocks. So little, you most definitely will not ever find out. If a $400 board gets your cpu stable at 4.6ghz 1.3v, a $100 board might need 1.325v. If a $400 board gets 5ghz at 1.5v and the $100 board needs 1.55v, that makes no difference either, because both is too much. Voltage regulation does almost only happen on the cpu anyway, the best the board can do for haswells is supplying constant voltage, which absolutely all z97 boards should do.

What expensive motherboards really give you are more usb and sata ports, possibly more pci(e) slots. Maybe a second networking adapter or a built in wifi card or better sound chip. In any way you could replace those though for less money and better quality.

Also, what is a "better bios"? The microcode that drives the cpu is the same, the different bios versions will at best determine how long you need to find option X. Options may be called different (and layout of menus might be a little confusing on msi boards) but there absolutely isn't more to it. The only extra point that could potentially be given here is the dual bios from gigabyte, so you don't kill the motherboard with an interrupted/corrupted bios flash.

I can't say anything about the evga one. Id personally stick to asus, msi, asrock or gigabyte though, being known as the "big motherboard companies".
 

SpetsnazBeaver

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Are any USB 3.1 refresh boards worth the extra cash? Seems 3.1 is a lot faster than 3.0 but what devices actually support it?
 

DubbleClick

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When usb 3.1 is now out, I doubt you'll see reasonably priced devices with 3.1 support any time soon before you upgrade again in a few years. And even if there will be devices out soon, would you really notice the difference? What I use usb for after all are connecting my mobile phone and having program installation files on usb sticks to not have to carry dvd's with me. Well, then there's also external hdd's, but in that case I just use a SSD to "carry with", which is once again much faster than any hdd, no matter the connection.