confusion about bying hp z800 workstation or core i7 4770k quad core

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shaikhmohsin

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May 4, 2015
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Achualy I m going to start 3d architectural visualization firm and I need to buy a pc but I m more confused.
I m unable to deside which system will be better for this work...
I have 2 options the 1 is...
Hp z800 workstation of xeon x5650 with 2 cpu, 24 thread, 16 gigs ram, and quadro 2000m graphics card....
And anather one is
core i7 4770k 4th gen
With 16 gigs ddr3 ram, and quadro 2000m.
Plz guide me to decide perfect machien for 3d architectural rendering and architectural walkthrough.....
 
Solution
bambiboom


shaikhmohsin,

As others have said, the z800 is the better choice for 3D visualization. The reason is that the two processors with 6-cores / 12 threads each may all be applied to rendering. The X5650 is a very good CPU with 6-cores...
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Swordsman20

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May 31, 2015
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What's your budget? I just bought a used HP z800 online for $1499 delivered and I have to admit I've never seen a computer with higher build quality. The whole tool-less case design is a work of art. This unit is about 3.5 years old and is equipped with 32GB RAM, a Quadro 6000 video card, one 500GB HHD boot drive and another 1TB data drive, both 7200RPM. It also has gigabit Ethernet and a built-in LSI RAID controller, currently not used. For $1450, this seemed like a heck of deal to me - that is, until the system arrived with no OS. Oops! Forgot to read the fine print! Fortunately, since the system is not too old, HP still sells the restore DVDs for $10 delivered. DEAL! Up and running now.

I've since been in the process of upgrading it further.

- It came with 32GB Registered ECC RAM at 1333MHz in 8 4GB modules. I later discovered that this is not optimal for memory performance, so I just purchased 4 more modules for $85 delivered to balance out the memory across both channels. The upgrade to 48GB is a bonus.

- The HDDs are too small and too slow for me long term, so I purchased a 500GB Samsung SM951 PCIe SSD and a M.2 to PCIe adapter card for it for a net cost of $512. It came today and I installed it. Totally screams. I was careful to get the AHCI version rather than the NVMe version, since NVMe does not seem to be supported on this older system and I had hoped I might use the Samsung for a boot drive. No luck. I guess I could have gone with the NVMe but I doubt I could get one at this price. In any case, this system only supports PCIe 2, not 3. This will be for processing storage to maximize the CFD calculations I run.

- I ordered 4 refurbished Western Digital Enterprise HHDs today, each of 2TB, which I plan to set up in RAID 0 for maximum speed. (Nothing stored here will be critical.) This will be for intermediate storage.

- I am checking on the details, but plan to add an overclocked NVIDIA Titan X to replace the Quadro 6000, which is still worth almost $500 used. Net cost, about $500, at the cost of losing "approved by HP" and the rock-solid driver support of the Quadro line. Not that important for me.

I'll have to move the boot drive to put the 4 WD HHD's in but it will remain the boot drive, giving me 6 total drives (500HDD boot, 500 SSD processing, 8TB in RAID). Backup will have to be external.

Total cost, including recouping some cost from selling the Quadro, $1460 for the system and $1377 for the upgrades, for a grand total of $2827.

I just priced a maxed-out 4-core overclocked system at nearly $2K more, with less memory, less HHD space, and 1/3 the processor cores, though admittedly this would be one of the latest ones and it might be able to match my system in some respects and exceed it in others - but at $2K more.

Oh, and it helped me resist the temptation to overspend on a new 16-core or 20-core $15-20K workstation that I don't really need. This should serve me well for a while.
 
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Yianpap

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Jan 6, 2011
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That's interesting to me as I'm also looking at buying one of those used D800s to speed up my CFD tests. Currently using an i7-920 at stock 2.67GHz. Could you please share some info on your new machine's performance? I agree is looks amazingly designed, happy to hear it doesn't dissappoint in person too:)

I am mostly uncertain about how the dual-CPU setup scales compared to a single CPU with the same total amount of cores, say a 12-core Xeon (assuming the single-threaded performance of the cores is the same for the 12-core and 6-core CPUs). Let's say we have some CFD code that runs 9 times faster on a 12-core, single CPU, that is 75% parallel efficiency. Would using a dual 6-core (like in the D800) bring that efficiency down significantly? What is your experience so far with your code? Have you tried using only one CPU and then both maybe?

Thanks!



 
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bambiboom

bambiboom

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Apr 7, 2012
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shaikhmohsin,

As others have said, the z800 is the better choice for 3D visualization. The reason is that the two processors with 6-cores / 12 threads each may all be applied to rendering. The X5650 is a very good CPU with 6-cores at 2.66 /3.06GHz. However, if you are making large, complex renderings, you may wish to consider the Xeon x5690 which is 3.47 / 3.73GHz. In the US, these are not extremely expensive- about $250. The X5680 is also very good : 3.33 / 3.6GHz and la bit less expensive to buy now- about $200.

Also, I would recommend at least 48GB of RAM- 96GB is better! The HP z800 has the Intel X58 chipset, so add the memory in sets of three modules. I believe this uses PC3-10900R with is DDR3 1333 ECC Registered, but if you buy this system, take out a module and copy the exact designation. the goof feature is that this RAM is the same as in servers, so there are many used modules at modest cost. I bought 24GB for a Dell Precision T5500 (X5680) for $120.

I would suggest too, that you consider improving the Quadro 2000 and for professional use, consider in this order: Quadro K4200, K2200, K1200, K620- whichever is within your budget. I use a K2200 (4GB) and the performance exceeds the old model K4000 for half the price.

Good luck in your new business!

Cheers,

BambiBoom

HP z420 (2015) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 six-core @ 3.7 / 4.0GHz > 32GB DDR3 ECC 1866 RAM > Quadro K2200 (4GB) > Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) > Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card > Logitech z2300 > Linksys AE3000 USB WiFi > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440) > Windows 7 Professional 64 >
[ Passmark Rating = 4968 > CPU= 13950 / 2D= 830 / 3D=3481 / Mem= 2767 / Disk= 4716] 6.20.15

Pending upgrade: HP /LSI 9212-4i PCIe SAS /SATA HBA RAID controller, 2X Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB (RAID 1)

Dell Precision T5500 (2011) > Xeon X5680 six -core @ 3.33 / 3.6GHz, 24GB DDR3 ECC 1333 > Quadro 4000 (2GB ) > Samsung 840 250GB / WD RE4 Enterprise 1TB > M-Audio 192 sound card > Linksys WMP600N PCI WiFi > Windows 7 Professional 64> HP 2711x (1920 X 1080)
[ Passmark system rating = 3339 / CPU = 9347 / 2D= 684 / 3D= 2030 / Mem= 1871 / Disk= 2234]

Pending upgrade: PERC H310 PCIe SAS /SATA RAID controller, 2X WD Black 1TB (RAID 1)(Converts disk system from 3GB/s to 6GB/s)

HP z420 (2013) > Xeon E5-1620 four core @ 3.6 /3.8GHz > 24GB DDR3 ECC 1600 RAM > AMD V4900 (1GB) > Seagate 500GB > Linksys WMP600N WiFi
[Passmark system rating = 2372 / CPU = 9001 / 2D= 712 / 3D= 1353/ Mem= 2261 / Disk= 712]

Dell Precision T5400 (2008) > 2X Xeon X5460 quad core @3.16GHz > 16GB DDR2 667 ECC> Quadro FX 4800 (1.5GB) > WD RE4 500GB / Seagate Barracuda 500GB > M-Audio 2496 Sound Card / Linksys WMP600N WiFi > HP 2711X, 27" 1920 X 1080 and Dell 19" LCD > Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit >
[ Passmark system Rating = 1859, CPU = 8528 / 2D= 512 / 3D=1097 Mem= 730, Disk= 929]
With Quadro 4000 >
[ Passmark system Rating = 1976, CPU = 8625 / 2D= 505 / 3D=2000 Mem= 742, Disk= 923]

Dell Precision 390 (2006) (Revised): Xeon X3230 quad-core @ 2.67GHz > 8 GB DDR2 ECC 667 > Firepro V4900 (1GB) > 2X WD 320GB >Linksys WMP600N WiFi > Dell 24" > 1920 X 1200 > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
[ Passmark system rating = 1458, CPU = 3699 / 2D= 431 / 3D=1350 / Mem= 885 / Disk=552]

Pending Upgrade: PERC 6/i SAS/SATA RAID controller, 146GB and 300GB 15K SAS drives from Dell Precision T5500 (Original)




 
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Solution
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Swordsman20

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May 31, 2015
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Yes, with the upgrades I have done by now, I am very happy with with the HP Z800. These are:

- Install 16GB more memory to balance the memory channels (now all slots are full with 4GB DIMMs), total 48GB.
- Install four 2TB Enterprise HDDs in RAID 0
- Install new mount for 3.5" drive in one of the optical bays. This now holds the 1TB boot drive
- Replace the Quadro 6000 (sold) with a Titan Z (for future GPU-based CFD)
- Now using 30" IPS monitor from Monoprice - highly recommended - buy the one with Displayport

I tried and returned a PCIe SSD, which was very fast in theory but added no performance at all for running my CFD calculations, which apparently spend very little time reading and writing to disk. I plan to add two SSDs in RAID 0 as a boot drive once the 1TB SSDs drop in price enough. For the moment, it is not worth the money for me just for bragging rights. (Also, the PCIe drive I tried could not be used as a boot drive in the Z800. This is a BIOS limitation and unlikely to be fixed.)

Considering what I have into it, it seems to perform very well. I would love to have a direct comparison to a single, twelve-core CPU but I don't have it. The AVX and AVX 2.0 extensions, and higher memory clock speeds and IPC, that are available in the newer processors MAY make a noticeable difference for CFD but the higher clock speed I have at 3.46MHz (3.73MHz turbo) may compensate for this advantage to some degree. The newer generations of CPU are apparently capable of running at "turbo" speeds even with all cores active, but even then most of them do so at lower clock speeds than I have. The latest 12-core Xeon costs more than $2000 just for the processor and has a clock speed of 2.6GHz (3.5GHz with Turbo).

As a general rule, for the same clock speed, I would assume a newer-generation CPU with the same number of cores will outperform two CPUs each with one half that number of cores. The issue is the latency and communication over the QPI interface.

That said, it is very difficult to obtain such a direct comparison. Even if you could, I expect a single-CPU, twelve-core workstation would cost 4-5 times what I've paid for mine and would be unlikely to outperform it by more than 50%. On a performance per dollar basis, that is not a winner.

I have to admit I have not done any speed testing on my own workstation (e.g., running on all cores on only one processor and comparing to all cores on two processors). I just use them all for every run.

As far as your specific question goes, I have no idea. I think the difference may be very specific to a given code and how comparatively independent the different threads are. In XFlow CFD, which I am using, I would not expect very much difference between the two configurations you mentioned.
 
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