Ratio GPU Core Clock, Bus Width, And Memory

KhellQc · May 25, 2015

Hey guys,

Please read all before answering. Too many times I ve had answers of people just cross reading.

So I ve been reading some on Graphic cards and what I get out of it is;

1. Bus Width is like the number of lanes on a highway
2. The ram is like the amount of cars
3. Memory Clock is the Speed limit
(I'm not sure to understand the diff or relationship with 3. and 4.)
4. Memory Bandwidth is... something... :??:

It seems that a lot of cards are just bottle-necked by one or two of the 4 mains specs or lets say adapted to specific tasks. I read about Nvidia's GeForce 550 Ti 4Gbs bottle-necked by the bus width or something like that. So I couldn't tell a good Ram vs Core Clock ratio from a bad.

My question is quite simple;
What would be an excellent effective Ratio of all these 3 stats for Gaming ???

Example, 256bit 2gb 2000mhz 100gb/s ???

or lets say, 128bit 2gb 2000mhz 100gb/s

or lets say, 512bit 3gb 4000mhz 400gb/s

Your help will be most helpful cause Im starting to realize that Nvidia, even if ''better'' tries to sell us stuff that we re not using. I want to be able to see if an investment is worth by knowing an approximate effective ratio of specs I will probably never quite understand.

Thanks ahead

i7Baby · May 25, 2015

I want to be able to see if an investment is worth by knowing an approximate effective ratio of specs I will probably never quite understand.

No - use performance benchmarks for applications that you want to use with the CPU that you want to use.

rhysiam · May 25, 2015

Your analogy is pretty close, except I would suggest you think of the amount of VRAM (2GB, 4GB, etc) as storage space. You need enough VRAM to store all the information necessary to render and produce frames. If you have extra VRAM, games will sometimes fill it up with stuff just in case it's needed, but having extra VRAM beyond what you actually need to spit out frames quickly doesn't really benefit you at all.

Bandwidth is actually the only other metric that really matters. Bandwidth is how much data you can ship back-and-forth, it's a combination of bus width AND clock speed.

The problem in getting something like an effective ratio, or whatever, is that all games are different, settings are different, etc.

Here's the general rules I'd suggest.
- Memory capacity: 2GB is adequate for entry level gaming, 1GB is okay if you're on a very limited budget, 4GB is best for high end... you may want higher if you're looking at 4K or surround gaming, but unless you're in the crazy-high end territory, 4GB is enough.
- No point paying more for more than 2GB VRAM if you're looking at entry level cards: having more RAM allows you to run higher quality textures, higher AA, etc... but entry level cards will run out of processing power before settings get high enough to need more than 2GB RAM anyway... obviously if you have mid or high end card(s), they can cope with higher settings and thus benefit from more VRAM.
- Memory Bandwidth: for entry level gaming it's almost always better to go with GDDR5 cards. You will see heaps of cheap "4GB" cards and they'll all be DDR3, which is much slower for video cards. I'd take a 1GB GDDR5 card over a 4GB DDR3 card in just about any case.

Hope that helps.

KhellQc · May 25, 2015

This gets a good benchmark and is a 128bit 2Gb 1200mhz 7 gb/s... like, HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW xD
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125771

i7Baby · May 25, 2015

Look at reviews and benchmarks.

KhellQc · May 25, 2015

rhysiam :

yes it does but I still cant associate amount of Bus width , with an amount of Vram. But If you say I could realy mainly on Benchmarks AND Memory Bandwidth well this should be alright.

i7Baby · May 26, 2015

You seem to be leaving the GPU out of the equation.

KhellQc · May 26, 2015

i7Baby :

FX8350, 16gb DDR3, I like playing Dayz Mod, no matter how glitchy it is just for the immersion in the nature, and I hope there will be more game this ''quality'' in the future. But Right now, I am experiencing it with a HD 6870 and probably will jump to nvidia cause power consumption and heat.

So, Im looking at benchmark now but I bought this FX to be able to handle whatever Graphic card I want.

What do you think

rhysiam · May 26, 2015

KhellQc :

There is no simple ratio/association to help here. There's two big problems with trying to think about it that way:
1) it totally depends on the workload (the game and settings you've selected). Some games benefit greatly from faster RAM, some like more RAM, some like shaders on the GPU, others are much more CPU dependent so the GPU makes much less of difference... it totally depends on the workload
and
2) when it comes to RAM... you just want 'enough'. Remember it's a storage space. Say a particular game at a particular detail setting has 1.8GB worth of data it needs to render a scene. If you have 2GB, 3GB, 4GB or 12GB of RAM, you have enough. The extra RAM won't be of any real benefit, you've got enough to store the data you need. If you have 1.5GB RAM on the other hand, then everytime the GPU needs data from that 300MB it couldn't fit in VRAM, it has to free up some VRAM (moves data to system RAM), copies the data it needs into the VRAM (getting it from system RAM) and then it can continue... that's a massive delay for a video card which results in your frames per second reducing massively.
Now that's not quite a perfect explanation, as video cards with extra VRAM will hold on to data in case it's needed again. So sometimes that 4GB card, by hanging on to data just-in-case, avoids the need to reload data like a 2GB card might have had to to. But generally speaking there's very little benefit going beyond "enough" VRAM (enough for the present) workload, which makes any kind of association or ratio impossible.

That's why I made some rule-of-thumb suggestions, as they're far more relevant (as are benchmarks!).

i7Baby · May 26, 2015

Benchmarks eg -

CPU - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106-5.html

GPU - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

KhellQc · May 26, 2015

1) Some games benefit greatly from faster RAM, some like more RAM, some like shaders on the GPU, others are much more CPU dependent so the GPU makes much less of difference... it totally depends on the workload
and
2) when it comes to RAM... you just want 'enough'. Remember it's a storage space. Say a particular game at a particular detail setting has 1.8GB worth of data it needs to render a scene. If you have 2GB, 3GB, 4GB or 12GB of RAM, you have enough. The extra RAM won't be of any real benefit, you've got enough to store the data you need. If you have 1.5GB RAM on the other hand, then everytime the GPU needs data from that 300MB it couldn't fit in VRAM, it has to free up some VRAM (moves data to system RAM), copies the data it needs into the VRAM (getting it from system RAM) and then it can continue... that's a massive delay for a video card which results in your frames per second reducing massively.
Now that's not quite a perfect explanation, as video cards with extra VRAM will hold on to data in case it's needed again. So sometimes that 4GB card, by hanging on to data just-in-case, avoids the need to reload data like a 2GB card might have had to to. But generally speaking there's very little benefit going beyond "enough" VRAM (enough for the present) workload, which makes any kind of association or ratio impossible.

That's why I made some rule-of-thumb suggestions, as they're far more relevant (as are benchmarks!).[/quotemsg]

looks like the best piece of advice so far. If you care to know, this all brought me down to these.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=Property&N=100007708%2050001561%2050001315%2050001312%2050001314%204814%204115%204114%20600536049&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&CompareItemList=48%7C14-127-860%5E14-127-860-TS%2C14-127-843%5E14-127-843-TS%2C14-121-913%5E14-121-913-TS%2C14-127-850%5E14-127-850-TS%2C14-127-832%5E14-127-832-TS&percm=14-127-850%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B14-127-832%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24

Now lets see what the release of the Radeon 390X do to the prices

rhysiam · May 26, 2015

KhellQc :

What's your budget for the video card?

I haven't messed around with DayZ much myself, but I understand that it is really badly optimised (fair enough considering the development resources it has!), but also that it's massively CPU bound. For almost every single game you'll see a very substantial boost upgrading from your 6870, but DayZ might be a game that doesn't improve much at all. As I say, I don't have enough experience with it to be overly confident, but I'd be reluctant to spend too much on a video card if all you're playing is DayZ.

KhellQc · May 26, 2015

i7Baby :

the CPU articles makes me sad, I bought a phenom ii x4 think FX wouldbe so much better, I should have went straight to x6 and never vuy the fx. but then It was my first build

KhellQc · May 26, 2015

[/quotemsg]

What's your budget for the video card?

I h[/quotemsg]

I dont really have a budget, Im just crazy about getting the best bang for my buck. So thats why im considering the gtx 960 maybe 970 if prices dorp quite a bit.

And no, Dayz wont be my only game, Im an LoL addicted and I might give GTA V a Try

rhysiam · May 26, 2015

KhellQc :

You can add LoL to the category of games which won't benefit from a GPU upgrade. That thing just about runs on a solar-powered calculator.

GTA V on the other hand would eat up just about as much GPU horsepower as you can throw at it.

I'm not convinced of the GTX 960 value personally. It's a solid mid-range card, but I am a bit concerned about 2GB VRAM on that grade of card. Particularly if you're looking at it as a long-term investment. But AMD's cards in that price range are either similarly questionable (R9 285) or very old, power hungry and missing some of the newer features (280/280X).

The 970 remains a really solid value/performance card if you can stretch your budget to it.

KhellQc · May 26, 2015

rhysiam :

I agree but if you click my newegg link, you ll see 2gb 960 at 270 CAN AND you will see one of the gtx 960 has 4gb of vram For about 320. A decent good rated and sold in good qty 970 are around 450-475 CAN. Compared to that 4g
b 960 Im not sure anymore.

What do you think ?

rhysiam · May 26, 2015

Yeah, I agree those 960 prices are tempting. This MSI one is $240 Canadian with the Witcher 3, which is getting awesome reviews if you're into that kind of open world fantasy game: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127844
It's like $60 US on it's own, so if you're gonna buy it anyway it makes that card very cheap.

I wouldn't personally spend $320 on a 4GB 960 when there's a decent Sapphire R9 290 for $370: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202143

I think the 960 will serve you decently at 1080p for now. I just think in a year or two it's going to start showing its age. It's actually not a bad plan to upgrade GPUs more often and stick with mid-range cards. You'll probably get better performance for price in the long run that way than spending up on higher end cards but keeping them for longer. Depends what your priorities are I guess.

Ratio GPU Core Clock, Bus Width, And Memory

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