Need advice, $600 build not including video card

SouthpawCam · May 28, 2015

Greetings. I'm considering building my first PC next month -- I've fixed or modified many before, but have never actually assembled one. I'm aiming for a basic gaming machine, since I'm not likely to do anything more intensive than play Guild Wars 2 or Cities: Skyline on it for the foreseeable future.

I'm hoping to keep to a budget of $600. That amount does not include an ASUS GeForce GTX 960 from my old PC (seemingly not the popular card here, but I do own it already). I'll probably re-use its optical drive as well.

I do plan to purchase a legit copy of Windows rather than go more questionable routes....

I'll probably order most of the parts online, although there is a MicroCenter within driving distance in northern Virginia.

Any suggestions? I've been looking over components and various builds, but could some more experienced insights.

turbopiki · May 28, 2015

For you budget this is the best build you can get

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($176.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($69.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($69.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($51.67 @ NCIX US)
Case: Zalman Z5 ATX Mid Tower Case ($22.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($58.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($86.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $587.48
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-05-28 20:30 EDT-0400

TofuLion · May 28, 2015

i would go with something like this

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Pentium G3258 3.2GHz Dual-Core Processor ($64.98 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($31.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z97 EXTREME4 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($128.95 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($52.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: OCZ ARC 100 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($51.67 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 960 2GB SuperSC ACX 2.0+ Video Card ($0.00)
Case: Deepcool TESSERACT WH ATX Mid Tower Case ($36.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($58.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($90.00 @ Newegg)
Total: $576.54
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-05-28 20:31 EDT-0400

since the games you are playing aren't very demanding at all, the dual core G3258 will be more than enough even without overclocking. in the 'unforeseeable' future when you do wish to play more demanding games, a simple ~$220 upgrade to an i5-4690K will put your machine right at the top in terms of cpu performance.

the 550 watt psu is probably not necessary for the time being, but it will allow you tons of headroom to overclock and upgrade in the future. you could drop a gtx 980 with a 4690K and a few more hard drives and SSDs before you would need to change your PSU.

you could probably get just as much performance for a bit less, but i compiled this list with future upgrades in mind.

damric · May 28, 2015

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($241.95 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($76.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($52.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial BX100 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($95.99 @ Adorama)
Case: Cougar MX300 ATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Directron)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Other: Windows 10 Preview ($0.00)
Total: $557.89
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-05-28 21:31 EDT-0400

TofuLion · May 28, 2015

damric :

you, my friend, must like offering a variation. i can't see sacrificing clock speed over threads in this case. OP would definitely benefit from the higher speed single core than they would from multiple threads

damric · May 29, 2015

TofuLion :

damric :

you, my friend, must like offering a variation. i can't see sacrificing clock speed over threads in this case. OP would definitely benefit from the higher speed single core than they would from multiple threads

It will turbo up to 3.8GHz when needed. I can't see going for anything less with such a huge budget.

SouthpawCam · May 29, 2015

Thanks for all the replies. I'm planning to go with TofuLion's suggestions since I'm most comfortable with that build, and most of the software I use really won't benefit from quad-core processing. Plus I like the idea of moving to a i5-4690 (or maybe just the i5-4590?) later if desired.

Darkbreeze · May 29, 2015

EVERYTHING on a modern system benefits from quad core processing. Do you think that the single threaded app or game you're running is the only process requesting resources at the time? It's not. The OS, background services and nearly any application or game release from the last year or two, at minimum, will benefit from it. Even the idea that using a dual core CPU that's highly overclocked, for a gaming only machine, is losing it's credibility for current and upcoming titles. There are some that won't even run on one.

I can name two or more games off the top of my head that while they will (With the right patch installed) run of a dual core i3 with hyperthreading, will NOT run on a dual core G3258 that lacks it. Anything less than 4 thread capability is useless in modern computing in my opinion.

SouthpawCam · May 30, 2015

Darkbreeze, thanks for your feedback, will look around more at options.

SouthpawCam · May 30, 2015

How about something like this:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/B98Xqs

TofuLion · May 30, 2015

If you can expand your budget that much then the 4690k is about the best you can get for a simple gaming pc. I only suggested the g3258 because of the lower demand and limited budget. It's true that a dual core is limited when it comes to brand new games that are optimized to use 3 or more threads but the games you said you'll be playing are not. So in that case the pentium is more than adequate and with a nice overclock can actually match the top performers in some titles.

But like I said if you can afford it, go with the 4690k it's a beast. It will be limited by your gpu though. I guess that's not a bad thing you always want your gpu running at its maximum capacity.

Archaic59 · May 30, 2015

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1241 V3 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($263.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H97 PRO4 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($81.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($51.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($67.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($51.49 @ OutletPC)
Case: Deepcool TESSERACT BF ATX Mid Tower Case ($37.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $605.32 After Rebates
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-05-31 16:40 EDT-0400

damric · May 30, 2015

I'm pretty sure that I showed that there is enough budget for the 8 logical core Xeon as well as a big fatty SSD. I wouldn't even consider an i5 and certainly not an obsolete Pentium.

Archaic59 · May 30, 2015

damric :

Agreed. Also look at the build I posted. And he chooses G3258????

damric · May 30, 2015

Archaic59 :

I saw it. Keep in mind he already has a GTX 960, so axe that. That gives you $600 to work with which is a lot when you don't need a graphics card.

Darkbreeze · May 30, 2015

Personally, I'd sell the GTX 960, take THAT money, add it to the budget and get the Xeon and either a GTX 970 or R9 290x. You're going to be so limited by the 960 that it almost doesn't matter about the rest of the platform. An i5-4460 is enough to push the 960 to it's limit. Then again, if you get the higher end build now you can always upgrade the GPU later, and will already have a platform WORTH adding a nice fat card to.

An Intel E3 Xeon 1231v3 or 1241v3 will probably keep you relevant for about four to five years. Easy.

TofuLion · May 31, 2015

the xeon does NOT guarantee to be better for gaming than the 4690K, now or in the future. even games that are able to use all available threads dont always show performance increase from having them.

even at equal clock speeds the i5 is actually a tiny bit better than the i7. i'm not exactly sure how this happens, but it serves as a demonstration that logical cores is not beneficial for gaming, not when compared to the 4690K at least. the single 960 might be the limiting factor, but 960 SLI would outperform a GTX 970, and the ability to SLI isn't available on an H97 board but is on a Z97 (provided user has enough connections to their PSU to allow this).

also, no one seems to remember that OP explicitly stated they will be purchasing an OS, and not "more questionable routes" such as a free trial of an OS that isn't released yet and will be charging money once it is.

damric · May 31, 2015

I personally see no reason not to want Windows 10 now that both Nvidia and AMD have working drivers.

That's kind of like telling someone not to get the Windows 7 RTM and buy Vista or XP instead (yes morons told this to people a few years back).

The OP is going to have to buy an OS regardless. So he might as well get the new one instead of the older one that won't support nice things like DX12.

It seems like quite a hassle to have to install 8.1, get everything set and working nice, and then have to do a painful upgrade to 10 just to get DX12 optimizations.

Microsoft wants you to make the right choice here:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-iso

As far as the obscure Anand chart above, those minimum FPS are within margin of error and all above 60 so I guess we should all just buy old FX-8350.

Or actually, better get an i3 ;P

Darkbreeze · May 31, 2015

TofuLion :

So now you are able to forsee the future? Heh. Cool.

Actually, games that use more than four threads DO show improved results with the Xeon or i7. I don't know where you get the idea that they don't. And those that don't, are entirely due to those titles not being optimized to take advantage of the architecture. That IS going to change, and is already doing so incrementally. Expect DX12 and future optimization of games to entirely change this legacy belief that more threads or cores will have no benefit when gaming, and keep in mind as well, that gaming isn't likely to be the only thing going on. If you record, stream, Skype or simultaneously perform ANY other semi-demanding process while gaming, those extra threads or cores are definitely going to be a boon. Keep in mind that the gaming results you see on EVERY tech site are generally obtained from clean systems running nothing but the game itself.

In the real world, people are doing ALL of those other mentioned activities alongside whatever demands the game itself places on resources and the biggest complaint I'm seeing with quad or lower core processors is that there are serious issues with performance on quad core chips without any hyperthreading, or dual core chips with hyperthreading, when there's other crap running alongside it. If you plan to game on a clean system with no other applications or utilities running then for now at least, a quad core is fine. Even an i3 in most cases. But if you plan to run a bunch of sidecar crap I'd really recommend the Xeon or i7 and I'd almost guarantee that by this time next year at least half the game titles anybody cares about playing are going to be utilizing more than four cores.

damric · May 31, 2015

Don't get me wrong. I do own a Pentium G3258. It runs my legacy DX 9/10 games very well. Not so good at Far Cry games though compared to my Athlons or i3.

TofuLion · May 31, 2015

Darkbreeze :

who is predicting the future? i simply stated that there's no guarantee that the Xeon will outperform the 4690K. i made no claims to future support for upcoming games.

damric :

well in this case, the pentium is just as out dated as the games OP wishes to use it for. original post states "I'm aiming for a basic gaming machine, since I'm not likely to do anything more intensive than play Guild Wars 2 or Cities: Skyline on it for the foreseeable future." so no need to jump out the window and get something you have no need for.

the obscure Anand charts actually came from their Devil's Canyon Review http://www.anandtech.com/show/8227/devils-canyon-review-intel-core-i7-4790k-and-i5-4690k and they were using 770 SLI so yea, even an FX 8350 will perform well enough with that GPU power

Darkbreeze · May 31, 2015

Stop quibbling. You clearly said "now or in the future". Little things like that make an otherwise relevant comment, well, irrelevant.

turbopiki · May 31, 2015

@TofuLion you are talking nonsense "so no need to jump out the window and get something you have no need for." you are saying that like you built him 400$ PC. Your PC build costs the same sa everyone elses. So why would you get G3258, if you can get way better i5 or Xeon for the same price

And stop comapring i5 4690k with Xeon E3 1231 v3. because i5 4690k is way behinde Xeon, For i5 4690k you need Z97 chipset motherboard and a good CPU cooler so you can OC to reach Xeon. For Xeon you can get even H81 motherboard and you dont need Aftermarket CPU cooler. So in the end i5 4690k costs way more

Darkbreeze · May 31, 2015

The 4690k runs on those chipsets as well, so long as you have a compatible BIOS version installed. It won't overclock on them, except in a few rare cases, but it WILL run on them. And for gaming on most current titles, the 4690k DOES perform just as well as the E3 Xeons and the i7, in almost all cases, just not when there are other demanding processes running simultaneously. Considering the Xeons in question are comparable in price to the 4690k and offer clear cut benefits, there is no reason to choose the 4690k unless it's a machine not intended for gaming and only the integrated graphics will be used. In which case, you didn't need anything more than an i3 or AMD APU anyhow.

TofuLion · May 31, 2015

You took part of the statement out of context. I said it doesn't guarantee to better now or later. I'm not saying it won't, just that there's no sure way to prove that it will.

The whole point of the build I suggested was to keep the motherboard and other core components as strong as possible while cutting budget on the cpu based on the users desired intentions. The pentium is more than enough for what they want. You could go with a $400 g3258 build but that would leave little to no upgrade path. The build I suggested is easily upgraded to a high performance gaming pc while only replacing the cpu and adding a second gpu (granted the evga 750 would probably be more suited for the latter)

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