Is my power supply failing? :(

Bloomfield920

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Recently (according to Event Viewer, May 8) my computer has started getting BSODs. They usually happen while I'm away so I never get a chance to catch the error code. In Event Viewer, there are multiple instances of Event 41 (unexpected shutdown) that happen every 1-2 days. I cannot figure out what the problem is. I tried a different surge protector, changed my RAM, removed possibly conflicting anti-malware/virus programs, and it's still happening. The only thing I can think of now is PSU failure. Is there anything else that could be causing this problem or am I screwed?

Specs:
Core i5-650 (ignore username)
4GB RAM
Dell motherboard
GeForce GTX 750 Ti
EVGA 600B Bronze PSU
 

Bloomfield920

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I just opened the computer and cleaned the dust out, then took out the PSU's dust filter and washed it out. I'm going to plug it back in and try your suggestions. Thanks.

Come to think of it, my computer has also been randomly having lag as well, mostly in the Windows UI. Don't know if that's linked.
 

Bloomfield920

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I'm not sure what you mean. If those readings are supposed to be somewhere in the BIOS, they're not there. My BIOS is useless, I can't even OC from it.

All I wanted to do today was install Grand Theft Auto V.

Edit: I'm trying Driver Verifier. Will come back with results.
 

Bloomfield920

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Checked, doesn't seem to be the problem. So far nothing with Driver Verifier. Apparently I'll get a BSOD and an error log if it finds something.
 

westom

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BSOD have text and numbers that define the problem. It should remain on the screen until you reboot. If not, change the settings in Control Panel.

Those numbers can be perfectly good to you. And still report a defect. Never say it is good. Always provide the numbers so that others can talk about other facts hidden in those numbers.

BIOS never measures voltage. A digital meter on the motherboard measures numbers. Software (BIOS) only reads numbers from hardware (meter). And that meter must be calibrated using a digial multimeter. Only then can settings in HWInfo be properly adjusted.

Furthermore, the digital meter must read more than the 3.3, 5, and 12 volts.

Long before fixing anything (ie fixing software that was always good), a good tech first collects facts - knows what is defective. That means numbers on the BSOD, facts from event viewer, and numbers from a digital multimeter using requested instructions.

What is one source of unexpected shutdowns? Power controller. Who has discussed that? Just another reason for using a digital meter.
 

Bloomfield920

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Looks like I found out what's causing the BSOD. I got one when opening Logitech Profiler for my Logitech G25 USB wheel, so I checked the log in C:\Windows\Minidump and it says HIDCLASS.SYS is causing the problem. Now that I know what it is, how would I fix it?
 

Bloomfield920

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Thanks, I just took a look at the other logs and it turns out HIDCLASS.SYS is not the only problem, only the cause of the Logitech Profiler BSOD. NETIO.SYS appears multiple times and NTOSKRNL.EXE once.
As for HIDCLASS.SYS, it's probably the Logitech G25's driver since the computer BSOD'd when opening Profiler. I'm going to make sure every USB device driver is updated.
 

westom

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When multiple doors stick, a naïve homeowner planes all doors to make them fit. A better informed homeowner first examines the common factor to all doors - the foundation.

Foundation of a computer is its power system. It can make multiple devices and drivers act defective. PSU is only one 'system' component. As noted previously, power system integrity is still unknown. Numbers from a digital meter using requested instructions are required (and from more than the 3.3, 5, and 12) to establish the power 'system' as good or suspect.

 

Bloomfield920

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As I said, these particular readings are not in my BIOS. If there is no software or other way that can get these for me, I can't give them to you.
 

westom

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What you can do was posted previously. Numbers from a digital meter using requested instructions are required (and from more than the 3.3, 5, and 12) to establish the power 'system' as good or suspect. That is also required so that HWIfnfo can read 'calibrated' numbers.

If an 'on the motherboard meter' is uncalibrated, then HWInfo provides nothing useful. As also noted previously. BIOS never measures voltage. A digital meter on the motherboard measures numbers. Software (BIOS) only reads numbers from hardware (meter). And that meter must be calibrated using a digial multimeter. Only then can settings in HWInfo be properly adjusted.

Posted is what any layman can do to provide numbers. Then the fewer who know this stuff can reply with something that is not speculation.
 

IamTimTech

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A bad power supply normally doesn't manifest in a blue screen with an error report. A bad power supply normally manifests as a random black screens requiring a hard reset, system freezes or hangups either temporary or permanent, or a solid blue screen without error codes. The system hanging up or otherwise acting funky can also be a sign of this, but so can many other things. I would check your hard drive with Western Digital Diagnostics first, then the memory with MemTest86. Then run prime95 with HWmonitor open to see what your idle and load temps are just for good measure. You've already cleaned your system out for dust and dirt and that's good. If your HDD test out ok, your memory tests good and your temps are fine then you should reload your operating system and then install all of the latest drivers from their respective websites so that you don't have conflicting driver problems. Conflicting, outdated or wrong drivers will certainly cause this problem. Once you've reloaded your operating system and installed all of the proper drivers if the problem persists it's time to break out the multi-meter as westom suggested.
 

westom

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If the power controller idenfies a problem, then it disables the CPU and powers off the PSU. That may result in errors such as Event 41.

If a BSOD exists, then the error message and important numbers remain on the screen. If not, a change in the Control Panel is necessary.

Power system is the one item that can cause all other devices (even disk drive) to appear defective. If disk drive failures were occuring, a message in Event Logs would report it. Disk drives never crash a system - are only reported as a defective peripheral by an Operating system that keeps working.

A disk drive that does not permit booting is reported as a BSOD or some other BIOS error message. It does not cause the power controller to power off a PSU.



 

IamTimTech

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Yes I understand that, and all symptoms thus far point to either bad drivers or multiple drivers installed for the same hardware or a bad power supply causing peripherals and components to appear bad. All I was suggesting is that the most common tells (at least in my experience) of a bad power supply are unexpected shutdowns (when temps are fine), solid black or blue screens (that just stick on the screen) not BSOD with error reports, or systems hanging up and freezing either for seconds, minutes, hours, or permanently. I'm not trying to contradict your knowledge, just lay out some guidelines for Bloom to troubleshoot his PC or identify his problem as it seems that using a multi-meter to diagnose his problem may be slightly out of his depth.


Edit: Also when I say stuck blue or black screens. I don't mean a BSOD that just flashed quickly and then the system reset. I am talking about when the PC freezes with a blue or black screen.
 

westom

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Have simply agreed with or refined your explaination.


 

Bloomfield920

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I got a BSOD because I was running Driver Verifier. I doubt the RAM is the issue because I switched the modules with spares, but it never hurts to try. Though I was originally getting BSODs without running Verifier, it still could be the PSU. I need to eliminate every possibility until I find the definite cause.

I will try to get the readings soon.
 

westom

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A second image shows numbers that are impossible. If 12 volts was accurately reported, then the computer (and HWInfo) could not even execute. Without a meter and some requested instructions, no useful reply on the entire power 'system' (PSU is only one part) is possible.

HWInfo reports three of six relevant voltages. It reports numbers that are too low to be possible and other numbers that are too high (due to reasons beyond what ATX specs state). HWInfo is reporting many defects and it reporting numbers that are not possible - as implied in previous posts. It is only reading numbers from an uncalibrated meter built into motherboard and accessed by BIOS.

A solution from uncalibrated and 'not possible' numbers is impossible.

 

Bloomfield920

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So what am I supposed to do? Why did I waste my time downloading this software and finding the readings if they're not accurate?
 

Bloomfield920

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I just got another BSOD. While I was turning on my PC, I left to get something as it was loading Windows. When I came back, it was on the loading screen before Windows. Not sure what happened there, but when Windows finished loading that time it gave me a BSOD which said DRIVER_VERIFIER_DETECTED_VIOLATION. I was sure I had turned off Verifier, but apparently not. After that the computer started up normally. I checked the logs in Minidump and there was one reporting an event at 5:02 PM (it's 7:30 now) which I don't remember. Probably caused by NTOSKRNL.EXE. The log from the BSOD I had just seen wouldn't open, just presented with an error message.