Can water cooling really be THIS bad?

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jamezmon

jamezmon

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Jun 23, 2015
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Hi everyone,

Just upgraded my 3 year old system with a Cooler Master Seidon 120V so I can overclock it, HOWEVER,

After a couple of botched attempts, I'm 90% sure it's seated and thermal pasted as well as it can be, I'm getting the same test results as my old cooler - a cheap Xigmatek Loki SD-S963, a medium sized active cpu cooler.

The Seidon 120V is an entry level water cooling system, but I was expecting cooler results than I'm getting...

Atm it's idling at 35c and under prime95 short FFTs I'm getting about 81c and I haven't even started OCing yet.

I've heard of others idling at 25c and prime95ing at about 45-55c with the Seidon 120V. I'm in England and it's mild-warm outside.

The annoying thing is 35c and 81c is exactly what I was getting before with the old Xigmatek - does this sound like it could be right?

I just assumed I would get better results with water cooling - and if it doesn't sound right, how else can I make sure it's working at full potential? Googling the first step is to reseat it - but I've done that a bunch of times and it's done pretty much as well as I can do it now, can it be random sometimes?

I'm doing a push pull in through the radiator and have a couple of fans exhausting on top.

Here're my specs:
CPU: Intel Core i5 3570K @ stock 3.4ghz
Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V LX

New Water Cooler: AIO Cooler Master Seidon 120V
Old CPU Cooler: Xigmatek Loki SD-S963

Fans: Coolermaster PWM -> Radiator -> Arctic PWM ---- up top Arctic PWM and old Xigmatec 3 pin.

Was hoping to OC the CPU to 4.5-4.7ghz - Any help welcome - thanks in advance!

James
 
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The guide is not from Intel, it's from a member who tries to achieve maximum overclocking and Prime95 28.5 may crash such an overclocked system if the cooling solution is not good enough. I'm not saying he's wrong, all I'm saying is that a properly cooled CPU won't have issues running it.

The OP has cooling issues on a non-overclocked system and with a CPU that isn't affected by the version of Prime95; an i5-3570K doesn't support the new instructions that make newer Intel CPUs run much hotter. Please don't assume that Prime95 28.5 will make a socket 1155 CPU run much hotter; test it yourself.

Intel i7-3770, stock cooler, 23°C ambient, well ventilated case:
Prime95 26.6 Small FFTs: 83°C which obviously is fine.
Prime95 28.5 Small...
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NBSN

NBSN

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Jun 2, 2014
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The truth is that many water coolers are comparable to air coolers of the same or similar level. So, if you replaced a cheap air cooler with a cheap water cooler, you will get similar results. Just like a more expensive and good quality air cooler will give similar performance to a similar water cooler.

The reasons you are getting different temps than others are could be because of the thermal paste application, case, ambient temps, and the list goes on and on.

Have you made sure that the fans are all working right, and tried increasing the speeds for them?
 
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eatmypie

eatmypie

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Sep 12, 2013
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The cooler that you have is honestly the worst cooler that I have ever had. I bought one off CL for $30 for my htpc and it performed worse than my 212 evo cooler. Also the fans are not the best either, but I think the pump in your cooler is just really weak so it doesn't move much water.
 
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jamezmon

jamezmon

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Jun 23, 2015
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Is this guy talking rubbish then?https://youtu.be/kDXP1SksmBg (4 mins in he gives temp range of 22c idle 45 load)

And this guy says he gets max 38c under prime95 load: https://youtu.be/vTXHgtJJ1r8 (16mins20seconds in)

Total mix of opinions from the seidon works amazing - to don't expect any real improvement?

The case, paste, fans aren't the problem I don't think - surely a water cooled system even an entry level one shouldn't be running at 81c under load without any OCing, open case and ambient temp of about 20degrees? Thoughts? Yes or no?
 
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jamezmon

jamezmon

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Jun 23, 2015
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Just had a thought looking at other low temp results on amazon reviews - is it an AMD vs Intel thing? Amds can be drastically cooled but intels can't?

Also would putting HQ fans on help? Or shall I just ditch it and go back to a block cooler of higher quality?
 
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Neutr1n0

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Jan 14, 2015
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Probably the latest version so that aint a stupid question.

you shouldnt use latest prime on 3rd and 4th gen intel core cpu as it causes overheating. Read the intel temp sticky! Use prime v26.6

as for the cooler results, off course you need to compare results with same cpu. Generally more powerfull cpu will generate more heat and result in higher temps. If anything AMD cpu should be worse than intel because (latest generation) intel ones are way more efficient and generate less heat with same load.
 
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GhislainG

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Jul 16, 2008
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Why would Prime95 28.5 or newer cause an i5-3570K to overheat when it doesn't cause any issues to an i7-3770? Did you try it yourself? It doesn't cause issues to any properly cooled CPU; as an example, I tested it on an i7-3770, an i3-4150, and i5-4590, etc. The worst that could happen to the latest Intel processors is throttling when they reach 100°C because of inadequate cooling. I'm not saying run it for hours, but it's a good test for the thermal solution.
 
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SinxarKnights

SinxarKnights

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From the Intel Temperature Guide located here: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html
Section 12 - Thermal Testing @ 100% Workload

Prime95 Small FFT's is the standard for CPU thermal testing, because it's a steady-state 100% workload. This is the test that Real Temp uses to test sensors. The link above is to version 26.6, which is well suited to all Core i and Core 2 variants.

Core i 2nd, 3rd and 4th Generation CPU's have AVX (Advanced Vector Extension) instruction sets. Recent versions of Prime95 run AVX code on the Floating Point Unit (FPU) math coprocessor, which produces unrealistically high temperatures. The FPU test in the software utility AIDA64 shows the same results.

It's not necessary to run AVX code for thermal testing. Prime95 v26.6 produces temperatures on 3rd and 4th Generation processors more consistent with 2nd Generation, which also have AVX instructions, but do not suffer from thermal extremes due to having a soldered Integrated Heat Spreader and a 35% larger Die.
Click to expand...
 
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Neutr1n0

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Prime later than v26.6 is not a good temp torture test for intel core 3rd and 4th gen. Read the intel temperature guide sticky.

Its because it runs AVX instructions on the FPU and causes extremely high current on the silicon die which in long term causes degradation due to electromigration.

AVX instructions are also supported by 2nd gen but not such an issue because of larger production process.

Feel free to use it but be aware that long term use will result in degradation of your CPU.
 
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GhislainG

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Jul 16, 2008
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The guide is not from Intel, it's from a member who tries to achieve maximum overclocking and Prime95 28.5 may crash such an overclocked system if the cooling solution is not good enough. I'm not saying he's wrong, all I'm saying is that a properly cooled CPU won't have issues running it.

The OP has cooling issues on a non-overclocked system and with a CPU that isn't affected by the version of Prime95; an i5-3570K doesn't support the new instructions that make newer Intel CPUs run much hotter. Please don't assume that Prime95 28.5 will make a socket 1155 CPU run much hotter; test it yourself.

Intel i7-3770, stock cooler, 23°C ambient, well ventilated case:
Prime95 26.6 Small FFTs: 83°C which obviously is fine.
Prime95 28.5 Small FFTs: 84°C (certainly not a significant difference).

According to Intel XTU my i7-3770 throttles at 105°C.
 
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jamezmon

jamezmon

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Jun 23, 2015
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Hi everyone, thanks for your comments - and I'm sorry to say I am going to win some kind of noob of the year award -

My CPU was already being overclocked! Don't know if I ordered it that way or if it was just a bios setting that came with it already from where I got it. I thought I was running at the stock 3.4ghz. Which I tested, by the way, and temps maxed out at about 45-50c with fans barely having to work, so the cooler was working fine all along! (idiot)

Regarding the above, here're some final comments based on my trials / research:
- As ghislainG mentioned - tried with both versions of prime95 and there was only a minimal temp difference
- The ivy bridge 3rd gen intels are run hotter than other cpus, prime95 temps of up to 95c are acceptable
- I'm now running a stable 4.6ghz at 1.3v - temps maxing at about 95c on two cores, 85c on the other two
- The Cooler Master Seidon 120V (£39.99), however, though working correctly is still I'm sure only getting the same results as the old Xigmatek block (£16.99 three years ago), so the whole cooling rebuild was probably unecessary, and I might consider taking it out for the sake of the additional fan noise and the potential risk of liquid spillage.

Doubt this thread will help anyone - but if your new cooler seems to be working too hot so you don't have room to OC - double check your bios isn't already on an OC setting! *facepalm*... - I don't know what it was on, I think 1.21V and probably around 4.2Ghz so at least I've safely squeezed another .4ghz out of it.

Anyway thanks all!
 
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