Putting a new GPU in an old computer

DecorativeKale · Jul 14, 2015

So, I have this older HP computer, with these specs:

Model p6210f

Windows 64-bit operating system

6.00 GB of RAM

AMD Athlon II x4 620 Processor 2.60 GHz

Geforce 9100 (integrated)

300w power supply.

I want to use programs like Adobe Photoshop on it, but as of right now it runs very slowly. So much so that it is unusable.

Would putting in a new GPU solve this problem. And if so, which one should I get? Would I need to get a new power supply as well?

Thanks

popatim · Jul 14, 2015

A new gpu will not solve this problem but will help a little. Photoshop has only a few gpu accelerated functions.
Things you should consider:
Upgrading to a Phenom II cpu to get the math co-processor you are lacking with the athlon.
Upgrading to 8 or 16gb of ram. Adobe products tend to use alot of ram.
Adding in another hard drive to act as a scratch disk or storage disk and making sure all your harddrives are 7200rpm drives.

rcald2000 · Jul 14, 2015

I agree with popatim. I would even go as far as recommending a SATA SSD for a scratch drive, although you did not state if you're running Windows 7 (64 bit) or another OS. Would you mind stating a budget for improving the performance and stating precisely what takes so long in Photoshop. Slow to load, slow to add layers, what? Also, what mfg/model/size hard drive do you have? Is everything installed on a single drive?

Also, if this is your computer (http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=c01852858) then it looks like you only have PCIe x16 (not PCIe 2.0 or 3.0). Assuming this as fact, then you could only place PCIe 2.0 cards, not 3.0 cards in your rig. To state the obvious, a new computer would be better, but I assume that you already know that. State what your budget is for performance improvement and precisely what performance problems you're experiencing and we'll offer the best advice we can. Inexpensive SSD might be helpful but I really need to know your OS.

Btw, I've owned more HP computers than I could count. I owned a Athlon 3500, which was the last single core CPU machine they released beside the 3800 (dual core). Those HP computers certainly held me over for a while.

DecorativeKale · Jul 14, 2015

rcald2000 :

I have Windows 7. That is exactly the computer I have. Everything is installed on a single hard drive.

The biggest problem I have with it is when I open up a project that I've been working on and I try to use a brush, it lags very badly, rendering it impossible to draw.

I don't have a strict budget right now. Of course, a new computer would just be easier to get, but as of now I don't want to buy one. I would like to be able to use this computer fairly heavily for at least another year before I get a new one. I want to save money though. So, my budget it probably $200-$300, or less. Thanks for your help.

rcald2000 · Jul 14, 2015

Okay, that's extremely helpful information.

Windows 7 supports trim (SSD garbage collection) which is great.
Your HP computer has SATA 2 (3.0 Gbps). SATA 3 (6.0 Gbps) would have better but at least you're not saddled with SATA 1 (1.5 Gbps).

Your project is most likely related to a lack of RAM or slow HDD. Do me a favor, open task manager (options -> "always on top"). Then launch photoshop and reproduce the problem by using the brush. Does your memory window in task manager show you exceeding 6.00 GB? If so, what number does it reach?

Please check this out now and report back to this thread. I suspect that you're exceeding RAM and then your hard disk drive is swapping very badly. This means that even if you defrag your drive, it gets back to a fragmented state very quickly. I'm not photoshop expert but I think my theory is more likely the cause than your video solution. Please let me know what you see and I'll see what options I can find you for your budget. We can certainly do something. Please let me know ASAP.

rcald2000 · Jul 14, 2015

Okay, please answer my question about the memory usage as soon as you can. Since you currently have 6 GB installed with four DIMM slots, you have two 2 GB and two 1 GB DIMMs installed. Depending on your answer, you can upgrade from 6 GB to 8 GB of RAM by upgrading those two 1 GB DIMMs to 2 GB. That'll cost $53.99 or $65.99 + shipping on Crucial (http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/compatible-upgrade-for/HP-Compaq/pavilion-p6210f) or less on Ebay. It would be great to upgrade to 16 GB (4 x 4 GB) but those 4 GB DIMMs are very expensive on Ebay and they aren't even for sale on Crucial. The additional money could be spent on a Samsung 850 EVO SATA SSD (500 GB) for $160. Another possibility is installing two 250 GB models and placing in a RAID 0 array from the BIOS, although I don't know if your HP BIOS supports it. I'd have to research it if necessary. Even a single SSD would be an upgrade.

By the way, in the meantime, you should defrag your hard drive with this program (http://filehippo.com/download_defraggler/)
Please answer my initial questions when you have a moment. We should re-create your Windows swap file while we're at it. Also, if you'd like a video card, I'm sure we can find you a used PCIe 2.0 cards that'll work in your system.

rcald2000 · Jul 14, 2015

This memory "might" work:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-8GB-2X-4GB-PC2-6400-DDR2-800Mhz-240pin-Dimm-desktop-Memory-For-AMD-CPU-/351275464321?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51c9a63681
ebay query: ddr2 pc2-6400 4gb

It ships from Hong Kong, and will take approximately two weeks to arrive. But 16 GB of this DDR2 UDIMMs will cost you $40 (including shipping). I think it's worth the risk.

16 GB DDR2 UDIMMs (4 x 4 GB) = $40
Samsung 850 EVO (500 GB) = $160
PCI Express 2.0 x16 Video Card = $50 (below)
------------------------------------------------------------
Total investment: $250

! Please verify that a PCIe 2.0 card will word on your motherboard before purchasing.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?N=1069633099&Submit=ENE

DecorativeKale · Jul 14, 2015

rcald2000 :

Surprisingly, with a large and complicated brush, the highest I was able to get the RAM up to was about 4.65. I was able to drag the CPU up to 85%. And that was with a very complicated brush.

rcald2000 · Jul 14, 2015

Hmm... I'm wondering if the RAM is installed in the correct slots. Could you check? :

<right click> Computer -> properties -> Installed memory ??? GB ( ??? GB usable).

Question: What does it say in installed memory, and more importantly, what does it say in usable?

http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c01635734

Karadjgne · Jul 14, 2015

Your mobo supports pcie 2.0, which will cause a problem with newer AMD cards, as AMD changed its architecture in pcie 2.3 and up. If you plan on using an AMD card it'll have to be an older style. Nvidia cards however, are backwards compatible to pcie 1.1, so that would be my suggestion if upgrading the gpu on this older mobo.

6Gb should be more than enough to deal with most things,except Photoshop which is a ram heavy app and can use most of my 16Gb at times, but I believe the problem may be speed. Depending on exactly what was installed, you have either ddr2 667 or ddr2 800. For programs written back in 2009, this wasn't a problem, this was decent for back then. However, now we are looking at ddr3 3000+ ram with a standard being ddr3 1600, which is well over 2x as fast with more than 2x the bandwidth. Programs these days are written now much more complex, as ram can deal with it easily. I believe a much older version of Photoshop would probably run considerably faster. The mobo itself will actually support 4x4Gb for a total of 16Gb (not 2x8Gb), so thats a bonus. Currently ddr2 on eBay is relatively cheap, so hunting around for a 4x4Gb kit won't be all that expensive. Asus boards (it's the OEM) do however usually use low density, single sided ram to maximise capacity, which while ugly, works just as well as the more expensive 'heat sinked' fancy stuff.

DecorativeKale · Jul 14, 2015

rcald2000 :

It says that 6 GB are installed, and 5.75 are usable.

Also, I have 4 ports but only 3 sticks. One port is open. I'm not sure what size each stick is. Do you still suggest that ebay listing?

DecorativeKale · Jul 14, 2015

Karadjgne :

Your mobo supports pcie 2.0, which will cause a problem with newer AMD cards, as AMD changed its architecture in pcie 2.3 and up. If you plan on using an AMD card it'll have to be an older style. Nvidia cards however, are backwards compatible to pcie 1.1, so that would be my suggestion if upgrading the gpu on this older mobo.

6Gb should be more than enough to deal with most things,except Photoshop which is a ram heavy app and can use most of my 16Gb at times, but I believe the problem may be speed. Depending on exactly what was installed, you have either ddr2 667 or ddr2 800. For programs written back in 2009, this wasn't a problem, this was decent for back then. However, now we are looking at ddr3 3000+ ram with a standard being ddr3 1600, which is well over 2x as fast with more than 2x the bandwidth. Programs these days are written now much more complex, as ram can deal with it easily. I believe a much older version of Photoshop would probably run considerably faster. The mobo itself will actually support 4x4Gb for a total of 16Gb (not 2x8Gb), so thats a bonus. Currently ddr2 on eBay is relatively cheap, so hunting around for a 4x4Gb kit won't be all that expensive. Asus boards (it's the OEM) do however usually use low density, single sided ram to maximise capacity, which while ugly, works just as well as the more expensive 'heat sinked' fancy stuff.

Any kits you might suggest?

rcald2000 · Jul 14, 2015

CPU AMD Phenom 9850 = $40 (Ebay)
16 GB DDR2 UDIMMs (4 x 4 GB) = $40 (Ebay)
Samsung 850 EVO (500 GB) = $160 (Amazon)
PCI Express 2.0 x16 Video Card = $50 (below) (NewEgg)
------------------------------------------------------------
Total investment: $290

Karadjgne · Jul 15, 2015

Do need to mention 1 thing. Psu is only 300w. Any gpu you get must be a non psu powered version, can't be one that requires an additional pcie power connector. The psu just isn't powerful enough for one. A gtx750ti would be the best, but only one with a hybrid bios switch such as msi twin frozr version.

Having 6Gb total with 3x sticks just means you have either 1x4Gb and 2x1Gb sticks or 3x 2Gb sticks. Not a big deal, if placed right, the 2x1Gb will run dual channel, and the 4Gb single channel. If mixed up, you run everything single channel, which is slightly slower.

So, you are looking for a kit of 4x4Gb, ddr2 800 (PC2 6400) NON EEC/UNBUFFERED 240pin ram. That's desktop. 204pin is laptop, you don't want that. Brand isn't usually a consideration, but Kingston, Samsung, HP(of course), Lenovo, g-skill, crucial, ocz, patriot, Mushkin, adata, Corsair, pareema are all decent

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