GPU: Please suggest good matches for my system

angkor · Jul 15, 2015

Hi,

I just built myself a budget system:
Motherboard : GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+
cpu : AMD FX-4350 Vishera Quad-Core 4.2GHz Socket AM3+ 125W
RAM :
-Kingston KHX1600C9D3K2/4GX Hyper X
-Kingston HyperX HX316C10FK2/8 DDR3-1600 CL10 240-Pi
HDD WD Black 1T x2 (Model: WD1002FAEX-00Y9A0)
HDD WD 1T Red x1
PSU : Ultra ATK LS 600w ult-ls6000p

For graphics, I now have HD5770 1GIG x2 CROSSFIRE

I'm not a huge gamer and I wouldn't spend thousands on a gaming rig, but I do like to be able to run recent games decently.

Right now, I can play Witcher 3 at low resolution with just about every graphics option turned off. It'd be nice to be able to up that a bit.
Especially, I just installed Watch dogs and it's stuttering a lot, even with every option at low.
So I started looking around for a 2nd-hand graphics card.

I stumbled upon an R9 280X in the classifieds at 150$ (CAD). But I'm worried about the psu. Especially, I read that it could be overkill for my pcu and would bottleneck.

So I was wondering what other suggestions there would be.
Again, I'm looking to buy 2nd-hand, around 100$ maybe.

Thanks in advance!

blazorthon · Jul 15, 2015

A 600W unit -should- be fine for the 280X. That specific model isn't great, but it looks adequate. The 280X certainly is a strong upgrade over what you have. Even when stutter isn't an issue with 5770 Crossfire, the 280X is still easily a 100% or so increase over them. That's a very good price for one.

angkor · Jul 15, 2015

I was over there earlier : http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
My system with the 280X gives 528W consumption. But they suggest that I add 20% at capacitor aging since my psu is a few years old, and that makes the calculator jump at over 600W. Hence my worries.

Still, isn't my cpu going to bottleneck a 280X? Everybody seems to think so...

blazorthon · Jul 15, 2015

Your CPU isn't great, that's true. However, an upgrade is still an upgrade and the price is right. If you aren't happy with the performance should you get the 280X, then you can upgrade your CPU to an FX 63xx or FX 83xx. You could also go the Intel route if you don't mind replacing the motherboard and reinstalling Windows.

The PSU is ok. True, you could do better, but it isn't a concern yet, especially if you consider upgrading to an Intel CPU which would decrease power consumption considerably.

angkor · Jul 15, 2015

I just bought that cpu, so I'm certainly not buying another one now. I was initially supposed to only upgrade my cpu and add some ram to my old system. But I made a mistake reading my motherboard's compatibility chart: For some stupid reason, they listed the FX 4350 and 6350 in there as the most powerful upgrades, but you could only see in a footnote that they weren't actually supported (!!!). So anyways, I went from a simple upgrade to having to buy a new motherboard and a new sata to make backups and install a new os. Where I had initially planned to spend 200$, it's cost me 400$ so far...

As for the fx 6350 being superior to the 4350, unless games can actually use the 6 cores, I figured that I'd be better off with 4 more powerful cores.

blazorthon · Jul 15, 2015

angkor :

They really aren't much more powerful, they're about the same. Keep in mind that the game isn't the only thing running on your computer. Windows is still running and the six core will give Windows plenty of room to stay out of the way while a game uses four cores. Also, modern games can often use six or eight cores, at least in multiplayer these days. There are still many that don't scale as well, but that's quickly changing.

Regardless, I'm not trying to tell you to do something you don't want to do. A good option available to you is to overclock the CPU or you can just leave it as it is. If performance seems good to you, then you clearly don't need to worry. Upgrading your graphics is your biggest improvement you can get anyway.

angkor · Jul 15, 2015

«I'm not trying to tell you to do something you don't want to do»

I didn't take it like that, don't worry. It's just that I'm stuck with initial choices which would have been very different if I'd started by upgrading my mb. I just wanted to point out that I'm already at 200% my initial budget and it's already very difficult to justify buying a new gpu at all.
So I'm thinking that if a 150$ 280X will bottleneck, I might as well shoot for less and cheaper.

Otherwise, I can also think that a 280X is a better investment. Maybe buy a second one to crossfire in a year or two, when the prices are down a bit and when I can afford another psu and cpu.

As it is, I just recalculated with the power supply calculator. I don't know how relevant their "capacitor aging" thing is, because it makes for a 100w difference in the calculation!

blazorthon · Jul 15, 2015

The issue with "capacitor aging" is that it is not a constant thing. How bad it is depends on the quality of the caps, how heavily the PSU has been used, how old it is, and that's just the beginning. Any site that adds in a setting for it like that is bound to overshoot the issue for safety's sake because they don't want someone with a lower quality unit that would degrade worse thinking it is as good as a better quality unit of the same age. If you're still concerned, then a replacement power supply wouldn't be too expensive. If you can fit it in your budget, around $60 is around what you're likely to spend for a decent model. Something like these:
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/seasonic-power-supply-ss600et

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/rosewill-power-supply-hive650s

Even if the FX-4350 bottlenecks the Radeon 280X, it is nonetheless an upgrade from your current graphics card and when it's only $150 CAD, that's a bargain. There isn't much room to go cheaper and still get a good upgrade. A Radeon 270 or 270X would still be an upgrade, but they're also about $150. Then there's the fact that, like you said, you can keep the 280X if you upgrade your CPU later on.

angkor · Jul 15, 2015

After your comment on the 4350, I went and read about it a bit more in comparison to the 6350. Benchmarks for gaming put it just a hair below the 6350. What's frustrating is I initially was about to buy the 6350 but was advised to go with the 4350 for the reason that I gave above. I guess I should read more and listen less next time. Oh well...

angkor · Jul 15, 2015

A side question about the 280X:
It's a Sapphire. The seller says it has both a 6-pin and an 8-pin plugs. My psu has only a 6-pin one and I use a "y" molex adaptor for my 2nd gpu (2x sata -> 1x 6-pin).
How will I be supposed to wire the 280X? Will I need to use both my 6-pin plus a molex (2x sata -> 8-pin) ?

blazorthon · Jul 15, 2015

angkor :

The problems with benchmarks is there are a LOT of different situations. Benchmarks are great if you're going to play games in the same way the benchmarks are performed, but if you're playing differently, then they don't apply as well.

Yes, under most circumstances the 4350 is not far behind the 6350.

The 4350 isn't a bad CPU, I wouldn't worry too much. Especially with technology, you're going to hear a lot of conflicting opinions and such, some valid, some not, so it's easy to get a little confused on what is the best decision to make.

More important than making sure you make the best decision is making a decision that you're satisfied with. Start with getting a new graphics card. If you see performance issues regardless of what settings you play on, indicating a CPU bottleneck, then and only then should you consider upgrading it. Get a feel for it first. Things aren't as black and white as CPU X will be a bottleneck for graphics card Y, no matter how much many people want to over-simplify it into that.

angkor · Jul 15, 2015

(I'll re-post because I posted this just before the last answer...)

A side question about the 280X:
It's a Sapphire. The seller says it has both a 6-pin and an 8-pin plugs. My psu has only a 6-pin one and I use a "y" molex adaptor for my 2nd gpu (2x sata -> 1x 6-pin).
How will I be supposed to wire the 280X? Will I need to use both my 6-pin plus a molex (2x sata -> 8-pin) ?

blazorthon · Jul 15, 2015

angkor :

I didn't even think to check on that... That's a problem. Such adapters are definitely not safe under most circumstances with high power draw cards like the 280X, especially with a PSU that is only borderline sufficient. It's fine for the Radeon 5770/6770 cards because they're only consuming a little more than what they can get from the PCIe slot, but the Radeon 280X needs more power from that 8pin than two SATA connectors can give.

Sorry, looks like that PSU would need to be replaced to use the 280X. With only one proper six pin PCIe connector, you'd be limited to a Radeon 270. The adapter might be good enough for the Radeon 270X to work alright.

angkor · Jul 15, 2015

Pretty relevant for a side question then!

I'm guessing it won't make a difference, but I meant 2x ata -> 1x 8-pin (not sata).

blazorthon · Jul 15, 2015

angkor :

Good question. You're right, it doesn't make a difference. Although it'd be a mess of cables, if it was four of the connectors going into an eight pin, I'd be less worried. Only two? That's not enough cables, nevermind the fact that they're not as good as the cables in a proper PCIe connector.

angkor · Jul 15, 2015

Well, too bad for the 280X. There's just no way I can buy both it and a new psu. Too bad because, as you said, the price is definitely right at 150$. Sad to see it go.

I had actually looked into the Radeon 270/270X. They do seem like a substantial improvement over my current setup.
I just went on the local kijiji and they go for 120$. Very interesting.
Is there anyway I can assess if my psu will work with a 270X using the molex?

angkor · Jul 15, 2015

Well, too bad for the 280X. There's just no way I can buy both it and a new psu. Too bad because, as you said, the price is definitely right at 150$. Sad to see it go.

I had actually looked into the Radeon 270/270X. They do seem like a substantial improvement over my current setup.
I just went on the local kijiji and they go for 120$. Very interesting.
Is there anyway I can assess if my psu will work with a 270X using the molex?

angkor · Jul 15, 2015

(Sorry for the double post. This time not intended.)

blazorthon · Jul 15, 2015

angkor :

I'll double check the power requirements.

blazorthon · Jul 15, 2015

Yes, if the 270X needs the eight pin, the molex adapter should be safe for it. It shouldn't use more than about 150W total and it can get that from the PCIe slot and a six pin PCIe connector.

angkor · Jul 15, 2015

I'm quite the newb for hardware. I develop a sudden interest in it that lasts about 1 month every 5 years, when I upgrade my rig. And I develop g.a.s. ('Gear Acquisition Syndrome").

You've been most extraordinarily helpful. Deep thanks.

blazorthon · Jul 15, 2015

You're welcome.

angkor · Jul 16, 2015

So I've been reading some more. The r9 270X seems to be some improvement over my HD 5770 Crossfire setup, albeit not the huge leap that a 280X would be.
With the 270X, could I run games such as Witcher 3, Watch Dogs and GTA V smoothly in 1080p (not necessarily with all options on ultra, more like medium settings I expect) ?
As it is, my crossifre HD 5770's allow me low resolution and low settings only.

Also, in my searches on the 270X, the GTX 760 often pops up as a comparable but better choice. Is that an alternative I should consider?

I prefer to ask because my inexperience obviously makes me overlook things. (I'm also cross-eyed from reading too many benchmarks!)

Thanks in advance.

blazorthon · Jul 16, 2015

You could run pretty much anything smoothly in 1080p. The 5770's are limited both by the inferior quality of Crossfire with VLIW5 based GPUs from AMD and by their inferior VRAM capacity.

The GTX 760 is fairly comparable to the 270X. It wouldn't have a strong advantage, if any at all, at least on average. Different games will somewhat favor different cards. Witcher and GTA V may favor the GTX 760, Watch Dogs will favor the Radeon 270X, for example.

angkor · Jul 16, 2015

Thanks again!

That'll probably be it then: either GTX 760 or R9 270X, whichever better deal pops up first.

Right now, I'm looking at a nice refurbished "superclocked" EVGA GTX 760. The superclocked feature seems interesting...
Although again, it would need both a 6-pin and a molex -> 8-pin adapter. I don't know if it'd be an issue.

GPU: Please suggest good matches for my system

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