Questions about metal compatibility with water cooling fittings.

Coolmanjack · Jul 19, 2015

Chromium has an electronegativity of 1.66 and copper/nickel is around 1.9 so I'm wondering if mixing these metals is bad and would cause corrosion.

I was also wondering if painted fittings chip away. I have heard things like this.

One more thing I was wondering is if copper fittings will tarnish even if you don't mix metals?

rubix_1011 · Jul 20, 2015

Why chromium?

Paint can always flake or chip, but most fittings are usually anodized or plated.

Copper used in watercooling can tarnish when exposed to air, but not as much when not exposed.

Coolmanjack · Jul 20, 2015

Chromium plated fittings are very common.

I've heard that avoiding plated fittings altogether was best but the only other option is copper or brass which I think would tarnish. And I've heard painted fittings would chip.

rubix_1011 · Jul 20, 2015

Isn't the chrome plating on the outside, though? Same with painted?

Coolmanjack · Jul 20, 2015

When I go on frozencpu and look at pictures of fittings it looks like they are coated everywhere, the Barb part of the fitting is coated and the end of that will com into contact with water and I'm pretty sure the inside is. Later as well from what I see. I'm thinking that it would be hard to plate just the outside of a fitting with metal as you would have to plug up the holes and the end of the barbs.

Another thing I'm wonderimg is whether coper fittings would corrode on the inside even if you only used copper in your loop.

I've also heard that fully distilled water can corrode metal.

The reason I'm wondering this is I would like to know if there is a loop that you could basically run indefinitely without clogging of radiators or corrosion of water blocks which would decrease conductivity.

rubix_1011 · Jul 20, 2015

I've watercooled for years and never had any of the issues you are saying 'you've read about' or 'heard about'...where did you hear or read them?

FrozenCPU has been closed for business and only recently have there been rumors they might be open..I would be very cautious before ordering.

You aren't going to clog anything with just running water in your loop. This clogging nonsense that everyone is worried about is the potential that some coolants break down under high, sustained loads and particulate matter can clog the pins and matrices of blocks, but not necessarily radiators where the channels are larger and certainly not an actual fitting where the opening is 1/2"ID (or whatever ID).

Coolmanjack · Jul 20, 2015

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/717317-Copper-or-Nickle-Plated-Copper

I hear it around the internet on forums that nickel plating is usually thin and can flake off. I am also concerned about using different metals in the first place as galvanic corrosion can occur and copper parts are easy to find.

My concern with copper is that copper usually oxidizes and that oxidization is a lot less conductive.

rubix_1011 · Jul 21, 2015

With galvanic corrosion, you are generally fine as long as you avoid aluminum in your loop. Brass, copper, silver, gold, and nickel are all generally good for use in a loop together. Some nickel plating has been suspect in past years, but these have reportedly been corrected. For example, I have an EK nickel plated block in my loop with a copper D-tek CPU block, brass/copper radiators and anodized Phobya fittings. No issues.

That thread is almost 3 years old, back when there were plating problems with EK blocks; that seems to no longer be the case, but doesn't mean it cannot happen.

4Ryan6 · Jul 21, 2015

@ Coolmanjack

Mixing metals in a water cooling loop is why coolants were designed to handle those issues, it is the same principle that the automotive and motorcycle industry go by when they recommend various specific coolants to run in their mixed metal engine cooling setups.

Some of us prefer to strictly run 100% pure steam distilled water, so those that do have that in mind when they buy their loop components, keep all the components in the loop pure copper, that way only adding a BioCide like PT-Nuke (Copper Sulfate), 1 drop per 1 liter is all that's really needed for critter control.

The concern regarding chrome plated fittings is totally irrelevant and is just not an issue at all running steam distilled water.

I also read the concerns a long time ago that you discovered regarding the so called distilled water vs copper corrosion, well my distilled water loop has been running for over 2 1/2 years and it was taken down for cleaning about a month and a half ago, and there is zero signs of any copper corrosion at all.

However I always read the labels on the distilled water and look for 100% pure steam distilled process with ZERO additives, you do not want any additives to the water except what you put in it yourself! (and it is getting harder to find these days, as some will label it distilled but only use a micro-filter processing, make sure it is a steam distilled process.)

When it comes to a mixed metal loop specifically running a copper core radiator and nickel plated water blocks use the coolant the nickel plated water block manufacturer recommends, and read the directions they also recommend, and if they tell you not to additionally add anything, then don't additionally add anything and you will not have any problems.

Do you have anymore concerns?

Coolmanjack · Jul 21, 2015

@4ryan6

thanks for all of the information, so im guessing the best solution would be to run a loop with copper fittings and water blocks with distilled water and pt nuke.

What about painted fittings? is there any realy problem with those?

i was also thinking that distilled water running through a copper/chrome loop would pick up ions from the metals and become coductive which might cause galvanic corrosion as the metals are so far apart.

you also say to use the coolant the manufacturer recommends, would steam distilled water work for that?

Are there any other things that i should be concerned about?

4Ryan6 · Jul 21, 2015

Coolmanjack :

I've actually already answered most of what you've just asked?

As far as I know there are no plain painted fittings they could possibly be powder coated with a baked on finish, most are anodized plating or chrome plated, and there is no actual completely raw copper fitting to my knowledge and if there is they would still have a protective coating as well.

IMO you are seriously overthinking the issues.

you also say to use the coolant the manufacturer recommends, would steam distilled water work for that?

The manufacturer of a nickel plated water block! (and NO steam distilled water in those circumstances)

Are there any other things that i should be concerned about?

You mean the things that really matter?

Like making sure the pump you choose is powerful enough to get the job done?

Or the Radiator or Radiators you choose are large enough to dissipate the CPU and or GPUs generated heat load?

http://www.overclockers.com/guide-deltat-water-cooling/

Should I run one loop or two independent loops?

Will overclocking affect my choices?

Have you chosen the proper sized fittings for the tubing size you'll be running?

Are you using barbed fittings and hose clamps?

Are you using flexible tubing and compression fittings?

Are you using the hard acrylic tubing and hard acrylic fittings?

Are you starting with a kit or all from scratch?

What reservoir type will you be using, 5 1/2" bay, cylinder, etc.?

Is the reservoir stand alone or connected to the pump, or pumps?

How do I test for leaks?

?????????????

Coolmanjack · Jul 21, 2015

You've answered my questions. The reason i am concerned is because my brother is a plumber and he says mixing metals is generally a bad idea.

Coolmanjack · Jul 21, 2015

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/182363-best-coolant-for-ek-nickel-blocks/

some people here say distilled water is fine for nickel plated water blocks.

rubix_1011 · Jul 21, 2015

Watecooling manufacturers wouldn't be producing the stuff they do at the price they do if this was really an issue. There is also the issue that home plumbing and watercooling, while fundamentally similar in nature, are not the same. You have DIRECT control over the fluid used within your loop and the components are made of materials that are designed to work together without reaction.

As previously mentioned, avoid aluminum in your loops (aluminum fins on radiators are fine as they don't contact the water) and you'll be fine. But again, much of this is rampant speculation from people that have not been involved with the hobby.

Also, most fittings are brass; copper is generally too soft to use for fittings/threads.

Coolmanjack · Jul 21, 2015

i guess ill take your word for it, im going to avoid aluminum and use distilled water with ptnuke. Is there anything i should keep in mind as far as metal compatibilty other than this?

rubix_1011 · Jul 21, 2015

Read the documentation or any applicable notes on nickel plated components on what manufactured care is. Some will only warranty if you use their coolants, otherwise you void your warranty if something goes wrong.

Like 4ryan6 mentioned, I think you are really overthinking the wrong things, here.

Coolmanjack · Jul 21, 2015

most of the other things that 4ryan6 mentioned you can find elsewhere online, and ive done research. but these questions are hard to find so im asking them here.

im trying to figure out a loop that would last for a very long time like house plumbing.

rubix_1011 · Jul 21, 2015

The reasons they are hard to find is that there really isn't much of an issue with them to begin with.

Coolmanjack · Jul 21, 2015

i still dont understand how you can combine copper and chromium in a loop and it not corrode. The water would pick up ions and be conductive.

rubix_1011 · Jul 21, 2015

Most fittings aren't chrome plated; they are usually nickel plated or anodized.

The water picks up ions of any metal it comes in contact with...that's why non-conductive fluids in watercooling are laughable because they all become conductive at some point.

Coolmanjack · Jul 21, 2015

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

look at this, nickel and copper are close so there should not be a problem but chrome is very far away from copper and even further from nickel. And you can find many chrome plated fittings on performance pcs. I don't see why they exist when they are so far from copper. I'm not worried about nickel plating as long as it doesn't flake.

Coolmanjack · Jul 21, 2015

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronegativity

and just look at how much of a difference in electronegativity there is.

rubix_1011 · Jul 21, 2015

Still betting that most of those are nickel plated, not chrome, and most actually say they are nickel plated even though they are listed as 'chrome'. Either way, if you're so set on being correct, go ahead.

I'm not debating this any further. If this is the rabbit hole you're wanting to go down, I'm not playing along. You're missing out on a lot of more important things you should be considering rather than if plated fittings will corrode or not. Just don't get them and call it a day rather than trying to argue a point that doesn't seem to be an issue considering how many people running watercooling use fittings you're saying will corrode.

Coolmanjack · Jul 21, 2015

I'm genuinely curious. I'm not arguing, i'm just being skeptical.

rubix_1011 · Jul 21, 2015

I would suspect that most watercooling components that are sold as 'chrome' are actually nickel plated since I would presume it is cheaper to nickel plate (also the reason that most 'copper' pennies are now actually mostly nickel and very little copper) than chrome plate and that nickel often is more 'chrome-like' than actual chrome on smaller components that aren't going to be exposed to external elements.

Questions about metal compatibility with water cooling fittings.

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