Full Coverage Waterblock Not Contacting GPU

Spaztic One

Distinguished
Aug 4, 2014
46
0
18,540
Title sums it up.

I have two Sapphire AMD 7950s with boost (model number 11196-16) and picked up some Alphacool 7950/70 V2 blocks to add them to my water loop. Well the GPU for one of them is getting poor contact at best. At idle, it sits around 50c, and anything that puts a load on it, even so small as resizing a window, and it shoots up to 70+. Depending on how high it decides to go, it will shutdown my system. The first time it climbed steadily to 95+ about 10 seconds after Windows finished booting up and the system did an emergency shutdown. The other one is fine, sitting at 27-28c.

I've taken the block off about 5 times now, adding more paste, redoing the paste, tightening the screws more, tightening them less, and every time the paste is only covering about a quarter of the GPU, and its still thick, not flattened out like when there is proper contact.

I don't know what to do at this point. About the only option I see is putting the air cooler back on, or trying to find a copper shim, but then I'm going to have uneven temperatures between the two, which is going to mess up overclocking, etc.

Anyone have any ideas?
 

Spaztic One

Distinguished
Aug 4, 2014
46
0
18,540
So it turns out that I just had to torque down the screws a lot more than I did with the other one. It looks like it's flexing the PCB a little and some of the VRMs might not be getting great contact. Any suggestions?
 
The following quote is from my peltier cooling thread where I covered what I had to finally do to my GTX Titan to get full coverage of my GPU die and all my Memory Chips and VR Chips cooled as well, it has been a discouraging journey up until now, I completely wasted money on a new water block and still couldn't get the coverage I was looking for, so the quote below shows what I did, and for the first time since my card left the factory it is finally properly cooled.

I just went through an extreme experience with my GTX Titan Hydro Copper graphics card, I had already mentioned the sorry mounting of the water block to the card with the GPU die itself only covered with thermal compound about 85%, with one corner completely bare of TIM.

Discovering that made me extremely grateful I had never pushed it too hard overclocking it, I was also thoroughly disgusted at the gelatinous crap thermal padding that was used between the memory chips and VRs, I had never even seen thermal padding that crappy, it was like 1.5mm thick gel, is my best description of it.

I would have known right then the problems I was looking at if I had investigated the memory chip and VR modules impression depth and contact to the thermal padding, as I would have discovered the serious discrepancies of the memory chips out of a flat level plane.

The memory chips were hardware mounted to best describe it as a roller coaster, of course I did not discover this issue until I bought a Watercool Heatkiller water block to replace the Swiftech Komodo that actually comes on the GTX Titan Hydro Copper.

When mounting the Heatkiller and testing for fit my initial goal was excellent GPU die contact so I wasn't even concerned with memory chip issues until I got the dies coverage I was after, it was then I discovered the hidden in plain sight nightmares the graphics card was hosting.

Before I continue I want you the reader to understand that the Heatkiller water block was excellent, however you cannot get good contact when a flat surface is being mounted to a roller coaster, Heatkiller provided .5mm thermal padding for memory chips and 1mm for the VRs.

The VRs were not a problem but the memory chips not being manufactured level and using the supplied using .5mm thermal pad 6 were squished flat and 6 barely even touched the thermal padding at all, so 6 of the 12 memory chips on the card were barely touching the thermal padding at all.

So the initial fitting of the water block to the GPU die was literally a total waste of time as when the thermal pads were added the GPU contact was lifted and not making good contact, that's when it all turned into a nightmare!

One of the worst things about me is I am a perfectionist, and I could not stand what I was looking at, I fully understood why the card was limited in it's performance, because full contact with everything that needed cooling just wasn't happening.

There are 24 memory chips on this graphics card 12 on the front side with active cooling and 12 on the backside with passive cooling, I had already decided with the Heatkiller block to bypass the cards back plate and just mount a set of 12 ram sinks and cool the backside with air.

Even though we are all at some point of buying a graphics card especially one the cost $1300 US dollars after performance but it seems we're getting looks and fluff over raw cooling for best overall card performance and overclocking.

Chock this experience up to another lesson learned the hard way!

So is that the end of the story?

No!

I was extremely discouraged at this point of attempting to get excellent coverage and it forced me as a resolution to run regular TIM on the 6 memory chips that made contact and the .5 thermal padding on the 6 chips that did not, that achieved excellent contact with the GPU die again but but revealed another problem.

The outer 2 memory chips across the top only had about 2/3rds partial contact and required a lot of TIM to touch. :pfff:

Pissed Off as Hell, comes to mind as I knew I was just not going to be satisfied with what was happening, and this was all because EVGAs manufacturing process of the graphics card in the first place was quality controlled by monkeys!

I am saying this because both of my past 580GTX EVGA cards were memory chip flat, and I had mounted Heatkiller blocks to them with just TIM only and had excellent contact, that's why I stated the Heatkiller water block was not the problem.

So what now?

I had zero intentions of running the card like that, so I had considered getting a universal fit GPU water block and thermal bonding Ram Sinks and cooling the memory and VRs with air.

However I had an additional water block an Alphacool that I had intended to flow modify for the peltier setup, the only problem was it was a clear 1366 socket mount acrylic top CPU water block, and we all know you cannot mount a 1366 socket on a 1155 socket, much less to a graphics card, so some serious modifying was in order.

So end result that I am happy with as for the first time since the GTX Titan left the EVGA factory door the GPU die is fully covered, and every memory module and VR has it's own Ram Sink..



Leak Testing:



Back in Business:



This is my resolved issue, and I shudder to think what may be under some of your graphics cards, thus the reason for posting this, as I thoroughly recommend checking it out for yourself, (if you of course have the hands on ability to do so!), to see what's actually going on under the hood of that graphics card you are running.

Edit: Gaming load has dropped to 28c with a 24c ambient.

Edit: 1, Ran an hour of benchmarking various programs Uningine Heaven, and Valley (let Valley just run for 30 minutes before starting the benchmark), 3DMark 11, etc.the highest temperature reached was 33c at a 26c ambient.

Memory chips on the back of the card are 26.4c, memory chips on the front of the card are 26.2c, (obviously the copper hedgehog memory sinks on the front are the best, taking into consideration they are thermally bonded and the ones on the rear are aluminum and just stuck on).

The VRs are 25c with a 26c ambient? (I have to admit I did not expect that, nor do I fully understand why but I did change out one of the front intake fans to a low speed San Ace 120mm x 38mm, which is a little louder but outputs quite a bit more air volume.)

Heat sink temperatures were taken with a point and shoot laser thermometer.
 

Spaztic One

Distinguished
Aug 4, 2014
46
0
18,540
Your VRs are sub-ambient, or at least within a couple of degrees of ambient? I've read through (or at least glossed over) a lot of your builds and posts, and I didn't expect that either. Potentially a typo when you stated that the air cooled VRs were a degree under ambient?

Either way, this begs the question, if you're getting such good temps (on the VRs and memory) with just air cooling, why does anyone who isn't looking for the visuals of a full cover block get one and not a GPU specific block and some little copper heat sinks? I still have good air flow through my case: exhaust, 3x 120 CM Sickle flow, 1x 140 NZXT (came with the NZXT 820 case); intake, 2x CM Sickle flow on bottom, 2x 180 or 200 NZXT fans, one on front and one on the side panel (not sure the exact size as they also came with the case); and internal, 1x CM Sickle flow to help direct air between the gfx cards and a bit more towards the main area of the mobo (also helps pull some of the front fan's air through the HDD cage).

If I'd known this, I probably would have gotten a "generic VGA" water block and some copper heat sinks.

A slight refinement of the state of the VRs and Memory, it looks like the memory is getting good contact (as the screws I had to tighten are right in between the GPU and the memory), but some of the VRs aren't as there are only two screws by them, and they seem like they help flex the PCB a little bit away from the GPU when tightened. Still making contact, just doesn't seem like it's particularly good. My OC isn't as stable as it was, there is more fluctuation (sporadic down-clocking and inconsistent under load), but I don't know if that's because I updated my drivers not too long ago, or because the VRs aren't cooled sufficiently.
 
For the record it is not a typo and that is idle temperature of the VRs not load temperature, but there is a good reason and that is a set of my room window unit AC vents is directed at my PCs front intake.

The true problem with all graphics cards is lack of built in thermal temperature probes to really get an accurate knowledge of what's hot and what's not hot on the card, before you push it too far, it is a guessing game of Russian Roulette with a graphics card when it comes to overclocking it.
 

Spaztic One

Distinguished
Aug 4, 2014
46
0
18,540
Well, it looks like even though the VRs aren't contacting particularly well, they're still getting sufficient cooling. Clocked my GPUs up to 1150MHz (stock is 850, boost is 925) at 1.25v core and the poor contact ones are at 63c peak (early morning when the AC isn't blowing, my computer is in front of a vent as well. Good contact ones are more like 54c) and the water was getting up to about 28-29c. Cores were peaking at 46c (I think, I've cleared HWiNFO's stats since then) which is much much better than it was. Before, I could get to about 1050MHz stable at 1.15v and depending on the ambient temp would start getting thermal throttling in benches but games were fine.

If I recall, the cards came out of the box with 1.25 vcore, and I'm not entirely sure that I want to push it further than that. MSIAB has a limit at 1.3v and I really don't know if unlocking that (if possible) to get even higher voltage for higher clocks is worth the risk. My every day is probably going to be 1000MHz at 1.15v, and possibly up to 1075MHz at 1.15v if stable (haven't tested that exact combination just yet).

Additionally, if I up the memory clock at all (before on air, or since the watercooling upgrade), I inevitably get a crash of the benchmark/game/system. It's at 1250MHz and 1.6v stock. I don't know if upping the memory frequency is going to be worth it, or if upping the voltage is going to make a significant difference in performance (vs the degradation of the card), but I don't think so.