how many fans are needed to cool 10 gallons of mineral oil

Levolutioner

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so i created a partslist at pcpartpicker.com (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/NJ84WZ) and i have been unsure about one thing:how many fans i need.I'm going to run a loop with 4 alphacool 480mm radiators with 60 mm of thickness so i can maximize the effectiveness of a push/pull config while still being quiet since the radiator has low fpi.What i'm confused about is how much cooling capacity i need.The system will have 10 gallons of mineral oil (twice the ''normal'') with high tdp components (especially the graphics cards).I have seen the ultimate corsair cooling mod https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUbpb23yTK8 which will create condensation of the water.Will the same thing happen in mineral oil?I know it's bad at outputing heat which it stored so i got so many rads but i also read the ''usable'' temp for mineral oil is 10 C so will the temp be too low?
 
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how many fans are needed to cool 10 gallons of mineral oil

Obviously not as many as you show listed!

Levolutioner, No Offense but your parts list looks more like a multiple choice wish list than an actual buy list as 4 480 rads is just absolutely not necessary and a lot to setup and configure when 1 radiator can do it all.

I don't even see a pump in all that list?

4 180mm cooling fans on a Watercool MO-RA3 radiator, which is normally the radiator of choice for this type setup.

The Watercool MO-RA3 is a 4 pass copper core radiator running round tubing and is excellent for the extra viscosity the oil has over water, it is pictured rear mounted to the aquarium in the link below, running 9 120mm cooling fans as the site linked...

USAFRet

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Most over priced? No, I've seen worse in here. Not by much though.
Stupidest idea? Quite possibly.
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator


Instead of potentially destroying $12,000 in parts in a first attempt at this mineral oil thing, why not practice with a $500 box.
Find all the pitfalls, problems, and uselessness on a cheap system first.

If you want to be a car painter, you don't practice your first attempt on a $200,000 Ferrari, do you?
 

rubix_1011

Contributing Writer
Moderator
Mineral oil is a terrible heat conduction medium, especially for cooling. There is a reason why cars are water cooled and not oil cooled - water has a much higher specific heat and thermal conductivity than oil.

From the watercooling sticky: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/277130-29-read-first-watercooling-sticky

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/277130-29-read-first-watercooling-sticky#3718878

Generalized Watercooling Theory


Watercooling is based on the set of principles that water is proportionally better than air to conduct heat away from a heat source based on conduction, or the direct contact of a heated source and a cooling source to transfer heat energy rather than convection, otherwise known as thermal conductivity. The ability of a substance to directly absorb heat energy is considered it's specific heat; in this case, the ability of heat directly absorbed by water and the required energy to raise overall temperatures by 1°C. While convection takes place with normal air coolers to provide the ability for air to absorb dissipated heat from the cooler, watercooling also employs this concept to some degree. Once the water absorbs heat energy via conduction from the blocks, it then transfers that through tubing to radiators cooled by fans. The difference is that a larger amount of heat energy is able to be absorbed and moved at any given time with a water loop due to pump flow forcing turbulent water through the radiator tubes while the radiator provides greater surface area to conduct heat energy from the water to the radiator and then into the air. The process is more efficient at transferring, displacing and dissipating excess heat energy based on the delta-T of the loop design. In short, the ability of water's excellent specific heat allow it to absorb heat much more quickly and efficiently from a source of heat (as well as also dissipating that heat back to a cooling source for dissipation) so it can also transport far more of that absorbed energy due to the thermal capacity of it as a medium away from heat sources to be expelled elsewhere.


Thermal Conductivity of Common Cooling Mediums (@~20°C; W/mK)
Higher values are better

Water...............................................0.610
Mineral Oil........................................0.162
Alcohol(Ethyl, Isopropyl, Buytl)...........0.161-0.200
Ethylene Glycol..................................0.258
Air...................................................0.0257


Specific Heat of Common Cooling Mediums (@~20°C;kJ/kg.K)
Higher values are better

Water...............................................4.19
Air...................................................1.00
Mineral Oil........................................1.67
Copper.............................................0.093
Ethylene glycol..................................2.36


There are a lot of discussions around mineral oil submersion cooling, and while this is a watercooling forum, it often gets brought up as a topic. That being said, here is a link to a maintained index of mineral oil discussions that either have originated in this forum or referenced as one of those discussions.

Mineral Oil Q/A Links
 

Levolutioner

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oh don't worry,i have a pc which is even less expensive,besides of course i'm going to test it before i submerge it,there's no reason why it shouldn't work (the only problems are rubber,dust (you have to close the lid of the aquarium)and a rapid overheating (which this cooling system should prevent)
 

Levolutioner

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Yep,makes sense,but i'm really doing this as more of a novelty than from a performance perspective.And Yes,water holds that heat faster and more efficiently than than mineral oil but can become conductive over a period if not maintained,which isn't a problem for mineral oil.My personal opinion is that mineral oil is cooler than a custom water cooling loop,and would cost me more (at least what i wanted to set up)

 

Levolutioner

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why useless? stupid? probably yeah,3x FURY for 1k screen (latest games,max settings) i've seen some benchmarks minimum fps is sometimes below 60 fps (in 2 way crossfire) which i don't really want
edit:eek:h and some old motherboards (probably mine) use rubber capped capacitors so it can't really go in mineral oil because the swell up or so i've heeard
 
how many fans are needed to cool 10 gallons of mineral oil

Obviously not as many as you show listed!

Levolutioner, No Offense but your parts list looks more like a multiple choice wish list than an actual buy list as 4 480 rads is just absolutely not necessary and a lot to setup and configure when 1 radiator can do it all.

I don't even see a pump in all that list?

4 180mm cooling fans on a Watercool MO-RA3 radiator, which is normally the radiator of choice for this type setup.

The Watercool MO-RA3 is a 4 pass copper core radiator running round tubing and is excellent for the extra viscosity the oil has over water, it is pictured rear mounted to the aquarium in the link below, running 9 120mm cooling fans as the site linked was opened in 2007, since then the Watercool MO-RA3 has new fan mounting configurations and can be cooled with 4 180mm fans, which is a lot quieter.

The Watercool MO-RA3 also can be bought with stand foot attachments to completely stand independently on it's own.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php

What's the use going mineral oil cooling and running so many fans you cannot stay in the same room with all the fans running? (Think about that sir)

Puget used to recommend all the components, and sell them as well, but has been forced to stop that, you can click the buy tab and see for yourself.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Watercool+MO-RA3

The Watercool MO-RA3 can be cooled by either 4 180mm, 9 140mm, or 9 120mm cooling fans, or you can go with the Pro series and cool both sides, but for your needs cooling one side is all you'll need to do and as I've already said, the 4 180mm fans are much quieter.

The radiator you choose is very important so the pump you choose can do the job you want the round tube style not the flat tube style radiator, as pushing the thicker oil is going to add flow restriction all by itself, so the round tubing is best for good flow rate.

Pump wise I suggest the D5 series with variable speed.

These are my direct suggestions:

Pump
Radiator
Stand Alone Base Feet
180mm X 32mm Cooling Fans
32mm Fan Screw Mounting Kit
180mm Wire Fan Grills

Good Luck, the rest of the choices are up to you.
 
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Levolutioner

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thanks,and well sorry...Lol i forgot that they are quieter because they can push more air at lower rpms.. DERP. And are you sure i only need 1? I am going to be submerging the power supply and the 3 175 tdp graphics cards and the 5960x in 10 gallons to boot,the pump is an easy choice since the oil quiets everything in it, EK-XTOP Dual D5 PWM with 2 Pumps.I want the oil to be somewhere between 20 and 30 C (and still run the fans quiet so if i overclock i can still be at that point and not make too much noise,which the MO-RA3 is really perfect for,thanks again for reminding me.So Do i need 2 of them (1 to run when not overclocked and 1 to run when overclocked)
 

Levolutioner

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k,sorry if i was rude or anything this is my first thread since i joined yesterday :D

 


That's a normal response when you're barraged by why not to do it, instead of just answering your questions.

The guy in the link below actually used the 180mm Watercool MO-RA3, you can get some good tips there as well.

http://hackedgadgets.com/2008/10/24/computer-cooled-using-a-mineral-oil-filled-fish-tank/

 

Soulage

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I don't know if you were being serious or not referencing that video but if you missed it try watching from the 15mins 44secs mark.

I've seen the Linus videos with the mineral oil submerged PC project, it certainly looks like an interesting thing to attempt.
 


The Watercool MO-RA3 is actually a passive radiator, meaning it can cool some lower end setups with no cooling fans at all, the radiator is the cooling element.

In your situation of cooling the mineral oil as close to ambient room temperature you will need cooling fans and not run it passively, but the Silverstone 180mm X 32mm fans output quite a lot of air and are very tolerable noise levels even when running them at full speed.

I have the same radiator and 180mm fans water cooling my graphics card, so I know the fan noise is almost not noticeable and it will cool your mineral oil.