BSOD issue, BIOS update and RAM question

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Arkahm

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Jul 13, 2010
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Hi eevryone. I've been over coming challenge after challenge this week with my PC since installing a new SSD (replaced my old HDD) and an EVGA Gtx970.


My build:

D2K9m8G.png


Error Information:

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.768.3
Locale ID: 1033

Additional information about the problem:
BCCode: 124
BCP1: 0000000000000000
BCP2: FFFFFA80071EB8F8
BCP3: 0000000000000000
BCP4: 0000000000000000
OS Version: 6_1_7601
Service Pack: 1_0
Product: 768_1


This happens when playing GTA 5 on Very High (not ultra) settings. Usually when I get to more intensive situations, like being in the city at medium to high speeds, My crashes and audio hangs, like an echo. I'm fairly certain this is heat related as I was having the issue before doing basic things on low quality. As soon as I rearranged some fans and ramped up my gtx970's fans from 10% to 75% gaming manually, it stopped crashing until I ramp up the graphics and go to town (literally).

Some people have suggested replacing my PSU, which is a number of years old now ~ Extreme Gear XG - P600 (600W).

I also only have 8GB HyperX RAM that's also fairly old. I was wondering if I should replace them with new, 16GB (2x8). If so, I also have no idea how to figure out what to upgrade to in terms of compatibility.

I have ordered a Cooler Master and it will be here on Weds. I'm hoping that will help solve some of the issue as my stock fan on my 8350 is... stock.

My south bridge has been heating up a little higher than normal under load (60c - 70c max) as a result of being directly above my GTX 970 and underneath the CPU as seen below:

B06dAmN.jpg


4bGKHrv.jpg


I recently reseated my heatsink/reapplied thermal paste and blew everything out with compressed air. The CPU itself stays very cool as seen in my temps listed below:

8ylET0x.png

NUgjFye.png


These temps are idle. Under GTA 5 under Temp #3, under the mobo voltage, I reach a consistent Temp of 55 - 60C. This, I believe, is my S Bridge as it stays the hottest to touch:

gyAotBj.jpg


GPU stays around 35 - 40C
CPU stays 40 - 45C


I am next to positive this is all just a heating issue and perhaps because the bridge is reaching temps 60 - 70C + under severe load (GTA on Very High in town/high speed with lots of action) my PC is BSOD. I dont know what the error codes mean.

I dont want to rule out any possibilities though. I also wondered if my BIOS update could be an issue, since I installed an SSD/GTX970 and clean installed windows. However, when I looked for a BIOS update for my MOBO, I was unable to find any outside of the first bios (the one the board comes with off the shelf) listed on the website. ~ GA-78LMT-USB3 (rev. 5.0)


Help?







 
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MarkW

MarkW

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The info you posted on what the crash info was, didnt help. Do this, and maybe next crash we will get some useful info:

http://blog.nirsoft.net/2010/07/27/how-to-configure-windows-to-create-minidump-files-on-bsod/

Then download WhoCrashed. Next time you get a blue screen, after the system restarts, run this, and post that info.
 
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Arkahm

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Thanks, here are the results and I feel as though I am correct about it being a heating issue!



"System Information (local)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

computer name: GLINT
windows version: Windows 7 Service Pack 1, 6.1, build: 7601
windows dir: C:\Windows
Hardware: GA-78LMT-USB3, Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
CPU: AuthenticAMD AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor AMD586, level: 21
8 logical processors, active mask: 255
RAM: 8570572800 total




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crash Dump Analysis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crash dump directory: C:\Windows\Minidump

Crash dumps are enabled on your computer.

On Sat 8/15/2015 4:48:42 AM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\081415-10966-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x4B297C)
Bugcheck code: 0x124 (0x0, 0xFFFFFA80071EB8F8, 0x0, 0x0)
Error: WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This bug check indicates that a fatal hardware error has occurred. This bug check uses the error data that is provided by the Windows Hardware Error Architecture (WHEA).
This is likely to be caused by a hardware problem problem. This problem might be caused by a thermal issue.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time.



On Sat 8/15/2015 4:33:15 AM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\081415-11185-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x4B297C)
Bugcheck code: 0x124 (0x0, 0xFFFFFA80075A88F8, 0x0, 0x0)
Error: WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This bug check indicates that a fatal hardware error has occurred. This bug check uses the error data that is provided by the Windows Hardware Error Architecture (WHEA).
This is likely to be caused by a hardware problem problem. This problem might be caused by a thermal issue.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 crash dumps have been found and analyzed. No offending third party drivers have been found. Connsider using WhoCrashed Professional which offers more detailed analysis using symbol resolution. Also configuring your system to produce a full memory dump may help you.


Read the topic general suggestions for troubleshooting system crashes for more information.

Note that it's not always possible to state with certainty whether a reported driver is responsible for crashing your system or that the root cause is in another module. Nonetheless it's suggested you look for updates for the products that these drivers belong to and regularly visit Windows update or enable automatic updates for Windows. In case a piece of malfunctioning hardware is causing trouble, a search with Google on the bug check errors together with the model name and brand of your computer may help you investigate this further. "
 
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MarkW

MarkW

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Download HwInfo , and play your games. It will track the temps, and after you are done playing, you can see what the highest temps were. With the video card, I would like to see it stay in the 70s at most during gaming.

With the CPU, I would like to see an AMD CPU stay in the low to mid-60s, and with an Intel CPU, in the mid 60s to mid 70s.

If the GPU is getting too hot, download MSI Afterburner, and you can set it up to control your GPU fans, and I set my fan curve to this:

50% at 60c
65% at 70c
70% at 75c
80% at 80c
100% at 85c.

Now on to your Power Supply... I have never even heard of Extreme Gear power supplies. So I went digging. From what I read, those would be classified here as a tier 4 or 5 power supply. In other words, crap.

It is possible that this could be caused by the power supply. I cannot say for certain that it is. But if the unit is as cheaply made as I was lead to believe they are, then it could be causing these problems.

My gut right now says it is probably something else. But, I will say this much. If that power supply fails in a nasty way, it could kill your entire computer. That is the risk you are taking by using it.
 
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Arkahm

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Cpu never breaches 50C.

The only logical answer I can attain atm, is that the GTX 970 is putting off enough external heat to really heat up my S.Bridge, which after crash is extremely hot to the touch, where as my N.Bridge is almost cool already. Peak temps ive seen it go as high as 60 - 70C gaming.

Before I reapplied thermal paste to my CPU a few months back, that Temp ("Rear" ((which I believe is the S.Bridge)) in OWHM) was exceeding 80C at one point, however the CPU was at a steady 40C - 30C at that time.

I have a Master Cooler coming.

ADD: one of my friends had mentioned if the PSU was failing or bad, it could be struggling to supply appropriate voltage which can cause heating. Any suggestions on a new PSU that is applicable to my GA-78LMT-USB3 (rev. 5.0)?
 
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MarkW

MarkW

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Not likely that the video card is having any affect on the south bridge, with the exception that it is pulling power from it. The GPU would shut down long before it could generate that kind of heat.

Get yourself a quality power supply. The power supply is the heart of the system, as you may well be finding out right now. I only buy Seasonic power supplies. I think they are the best made power supplies on the planet. XFX power supplies are also made by Seasonic as well. In addition to those, there is a Power Supply List here on Tomshardware.com that breaks down many of the current power supplies on the market into 5 tiers, and we recommend that people only buy a Tier 1 or 2 power supply.
 
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Arkahm

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Thank you very much. I'll ask to clarify, are there any other possibilities as to why my S.Bridge is so hot, or if the chipset over heating could be the cause of the shut downs?

I've downloaded AB and set my custom curve. I'm going to test GTA 5 out in a second. I guess if I shut down again we'll be leaning more towards the PSU, won't we? :).

I'll have to see if I can track down a good PSU that is compatible not only in size but with my mobo as well.

Also, is it possible my RAM could be going bad? As this happens under stress, I have 8GB of ram but it's getting on in age. I dont have any blank cd's to burn the iso for memtest86.


Also, i booted speccy for more info:


Operating System
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1
CPU
AMD FX-8350 41 °C
Vishera 32nm Technology
RAM
8.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 666MHz (9-9-9-24)
Motherboard
Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. GA-78LMT-USB3 (Socket M2) 36 °C
Graphics
SONY TV (1360x768@60Hz)
4095MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 (EVGA) 39 °C
Storage
465GB Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB ATA Device (SSD) 34 °C
Optical Drives
HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GH24NS70 ATA Device
Audio
NVIDIA High Definition Audio


This is with an MMO I play called Aion. Old, not too intensive at all. Ill take this with gta5
 
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MarkW

MarkW

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South Bridges always get hot. They are regulating all of the power going into the motherboard. So all of the power the CPU uses, and all of the power that the cards in the PCIe slots are using is being regulated by that small section of your motherboard. They are normally the hottest parts of your system.
 
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Arkahm

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Wow! Thank you, again.

So this really wires down to it being the PSU being too weak/failing, or my GTX needing additional cooling factors?

This is very great to know.


Currently my 970 is idling at 37C. It's fairly cool ambient. Im booting GTA 5 now with speccy/OHWM both open.
 
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Arkahm

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Actually, that's a lie. I also wondered about compatibility issues or bugs with my Bios version. I looked it up, my Rev 5 only has 1 bios update on the manufacturer website... and it's the same one it comes with off the shelf :S 2013
 
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Arkahm

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Well, in single player I had everything maxed, except shadows (very high) and was getting 60fps solid inside the main city, high speed. I alt tabbed twice to check temps. GPU was at 42C, S.Bridge at 60C, roughly, Mobo at 36 - 40C. CPU was about 48 - 50.

Suddenly, without warning or issue the game crashed, as usual, locking up black screen with audio hanging as a stuttering echo.



Once again:

On Sat 8/15/2015 7:30:35 AM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\081515-11185-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x4B297C)
Bugcheck code: 0x124 (0x0, 0xFFFFFA800758F8F8, 0x0, 0x0)
Error: WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This bug check indicates that a fatal hardware error has occurred. This bug check uses the error data that is provided by the Windows Hardware Error Architecture (WHEA).
This is likely to be caused by a hardware problem problem. This problem might be caused by a thermal issue.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time.


This leads me to believe you are probably right about the PSU beginning to fail me/not be enough. It is only 600W, bad make and older.
 
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Arkahm

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Here is a look at my voltage:

BIOS
Brand Award Software International, Inc.
Version FA
Date 4/23/2013
Voltage
CPU CORE 1.416 V
DRAM 1.500 V
+5V 5.010 V
+12V 10.008 V
+3.3V 3.336 V
CMOS BATTERY 1.668 V
 
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J

johnbl

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12 v line is running at 10 volts i would expect something like 12 volts +/- 5 % (11.4V to 12.6V)

sometimes you can use the memory dump to tell if the bugcheck 0x124 is a heating issue or a power issue. if the if the system uptime is under 15 seconds generally it will be a power issue (system rebooted on you)
if the uptime is over 15 minutes it is often a heating issue.

note: you can use !errrec command on the address of the whea data structure (parameter 2 = WHEA_ERROR_RECORD )to see why the CPU called the bugcheck.

often people do no realize that the low voltage on the 12 v line leads to a reboot of the system. They just play a game and get a blue screen. what really happens is they play a game, the GPU pulls too much power, the motherboard logic resets the CPU, the machine starts to boot before the power is stable because of a incorrect power_ok signal, the CPU boots with unstable power, gets an error from the memory controller and calls a bugcheck. The system up timer will be 5 to 15 seconds in this case.



 
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Arkahm

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Hi! Thank you for taking the time to look!

My boot time from crash to restart is the same as my standard boot from off. About 10 seconds, roughly, from hitting the power button. That's boot to desktop. Booting to my windows login is only about 6 or 7 seconds.


This to me describes my situation flawlessly and I am convinced it's my PSU. I am okay with all the things I've learned this week!

From MSI Afterburner, Speccy, WhoCrash, etc. I have learned a vast deal.



Now, my final two questions are:


What's a good 700 - 750W PSU that will be compatible with my mobo (gigabyte ga-78lmt-usb3)

And how hard are they to physically place :S. I've never done it before.
 
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MarkW

MarkW

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As far as brands of power supplies that are good, any Seasonic or XFX are top of the line power supplies. EVGA B2 power supplies are also good. There are many, many power supplies out there. Unfortunately, there are at least as many cheaply made power supplies out there as there are good ones, and its impossible for someone like you or me to really be able to tell the difference.

So we rely on people that have special equipment to test power supplies to review the units for us. And then, over time, we will also get pretty significant amounts of feedback from people that have purchased those units coming here with their problems, much like you have. We have a Power Supply List here on Tomshardware.com, that breaks down the quality of the power supplies into 5 tiers. Tiers 1 and 2 are what we want to see people buy. Tier 3 should only be purchased for very light load systems, like office machines, and below that, we really do not like to see anyone get those.

Not every power supply out there is on the list. Some models are only sold outside of the USA and EU. So we would almost never see a review on those units. But even some units that are sold in the USA and EU are not there because they have not been reviewed by a trusted reviewer. So when you look at this list, the Brand Name is listed above the model names, and then their various models are listed along with the company that made the unit. Again, we prefer to see Tier 1 and 2 power supplies in gaming systems.
 
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johnbl

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the list of good power supplies changes over time as new versions are released and companies are bought and sold.
low tier companies make lots of money and buy higher tier companies to gain the better reputation. I don't keep up with them but look here:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/id-2547993/psu-tier-list.html

looks like Seasonic is still the way to go. Note: they make the power supply but many companies put their label on the device and change the fans. (find one with good fans, good bearings and quiet)



 
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MarkW

MarkW

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99.9% of cases that use any variation of an ATX sized motherboard will also use an ATX sized power supply. And I believe that everything on that power supply list is ATX sized. ATX sized power supplies are square with a fan on top. Most non-ATX sized power supplies are shaped more like a loaf of bread.

As far as installing the power supply, 4 screws hold them in place. There are a lot of power cables inside of your system, so keep notes on what you disconnect and where it came from. There are 2 heavy duty cables to go directly to the motherboard. You cannot use the cables in the wrong places, as they use unique connectors. The 2 motherboard connectors are 24 pin and 8 pin (older ones were 4 pin). The 8 pin is designed to allow just 4 pins to be used if that is what your motherboard needs. Like I said, keep notes as you remove the old one, and follow those same notes as you install the new one.
 
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